Every time I read it! It's badass :)

The stupid is STRONG in this thread

May the FARCE be with you. :upsidedow

Hey Admins! We need some Star Wars emojin!

There are a lot of people & companies with a "big board presence" (or big mouth, really) who don't realize how many mailers & chatters there are doing 1k+ joins per day in adult... more than a few doing 10x that. :winkwink:

please tell me more about it ;)
it shouldnt be that hard to setup vps with chatbots,enter most popular chatrooms and spamaway.....

sounds like upstanding citizens who should be proud of their work, similar to the types that run dating sites with no women on the backend.

......or like Facebook, or Google that have your privacy for nothing and collect what they can on you and about you?
no Biggy, I would say.....:winkwink:

With that type of mindset and rationale, why even try to follow the law at all?

Just sell drugs, and bypass the adult industry altogether.

You just compared google and facebook to spammers and chat botters in porn.

One thing I will give you is that I recently saw a chart based on the hacked AM sales data. The chart indicated that they had higher sales than ever. At least double what they were in 2013. I was shocked. OTOH that is just one company and could be explained by a major deal with a few tubes. I seem to recall AFF talking about dating revenue declining a bit.

If I can find the chart again and it doesn't violate any rules I will post a link to it. It was interesting and I'm kicking myself for not saving it.

Hate to break it to ya but there is already a lot of drugs, crime and illegal shit going on in "adult" - much of which accounts for those thousands of joins a day.

There is legitimate business then there is the Dark Side. Know the difference.

Wait a minute...I can get high and get more joins? Nobody told me that! Sign me up NOW!

This is to me the real reason, besides that everybody think they can make money on porn because they have "better quality" than the rest, but they dont know how to promote it, and then the bitch around, classic.

You are right, my bad. I wasn't thinking about cams.

But.. Cams are the companies who are buying the majority of popunders, not so much for branding, but because setting their own cookies that way to hopefully prevent paying an affiliate a commission on a referral is much more cost effective...

Thats a different discussion. We were talking about whats straight fwd as far as the USER is concerned :)

Ah, my bad. :upsidedow

porn= drug
it is also addicting and ruining some people's lives...dont you agree with me ?

google and facebook are here for profit. and they dont care about you as person. you are only good for them for data mining and spamming you.
and yes, they are much more sophisticated than some chat spammers...and they give some "services"..but not everyone knows that these "free services" come with a price...
dont get lured by their logos and cheerful mottos, all that corp bullshit that they may invent and imagine...
now, getting back to the topic....

Okay, Robbie wins the thread.

I won? Hell yes!

I'd like to thank my parents, my agent, and all the people out there who made this moment possible. It took 13 years to finally win here on GFY. But it was worth every moment.
Thank you and goodnight!

Thanks for the answer. I hear this a lot and I have a feeling a lot of people are just guessing and/or talking out their ass. It seems like you have seen the numbers and have solid information.

BTW, this is a very good thread.

There is still money in porn. Just a tiny fraction of what there used to be.

For you maybe. If you were a good dating / cams affiliate you would know that statement is completely false.

There is less money in PAYSITES now that before (although not as much of a dip as people think) and Im sure less in shooting content. BUT, the companies that make really good, HQ content for their sites are still doing big joins. And Id guess the top 5% (quality wise) of content producers are still working regularly, but thats a guess, its not my end of the industry.

Dont kid yourself, companies like BangBros, MetArt, Skeet etc that produce really high quality shit are making sales. They aren't shooting all that content and loosing $$. Maybe not quite as many sales as before, but big numbers none the less.

The part of the industry thats dying are the mediocre pay sites filled with old, plain, bulk purchase content. And that made up a BIG % of the total sites out there. You can set up a pay site, affiliate program and fill it with Junk for a few thousand dollars. As you know, to do it with HQ, custom content is not a cheap proposition. And the affiliates that are dying are the same. Mediocre, one trick ponies who's methods worked well when it was easy and their method worked. The true, creative marketers are still doing as well as ever. Im talking about the ones who mix up their methods and the offers they promote. They see a dip, they test and play with new traffic sources and offers to fill the void.

I know MORE than a few affiliates from the "old days" who were taught or fell into promoting porn with just one method, but that method stopped working and now they whine. A lot. Its weird....this is the only industry where SOOOO many people act like that. What if Apple had continued to make JUST the Apple 2e, never coming out with new options they needed to stay current and on top? "Man, its bullshit, IBM and these other guys keep making all these new, smaller laptops and things and the sales of our 2e are 10% of what they used to be"

We'd laugh and say they were out of touch. That they didn't know what they are doing. That they should mix it up and try something new. Food for thought.

Good post :2 cents:

I agree with much of your post except this analogy. Had IBM come out with comparable or slightly less comparable laptops and started giving them away.... or even better, a company controlled by the mafia came in and stole Apple's product and gave it away to people for free, then the industries would be similar.

But I agree whole-heartedly that there is tons of money in porn for creative people today. A better analogy is fishing. When the industry was new, anyone with a fishing pole could make bank. As the competition heated up, the people chumming were doing better, so everyone started chumming. Even though the pond is larger, the fish just arent as hungry as they were 10 years ago with so much chum in the water. A good fisherman can still catch fish with the right bait, but being a good fisherman requires patience and skill. That's why there are tons more bad fisherman than good.

you could sum this up a lot quicker with:

The part of the industry that is dying is the inexperienced surfer who is willing to buy any old shit you throw at them!

No, you could say that the actual PORN industry section of the adult industry is dying because the product is given away for free.

Dating and cams are a different part of adult.

But in my opinion it is PORN that is the real golden goose that has been killed.

Yeah, people in dating and cams and the scumbags at Traffic Junky/Pornhub are making great money selling anything BUT porn.

But it's a dog-eat-dog world. All you can do is take the cards that are dealt and use your abilities to navigate the waters.

This implied claim of there being more money in the industry now due to dating and cams versus in the past when recorded porn was king has in fact been made before. I don't believe it was decisively settled however there are prominent industry figures on the record stating that they believe the overall industry has in fact shrunk. It would be really interesting to do a in-depth analysis though.

As you probably know there was a major leak at a dating company recently. Well some figures are being released in the media and some of these include revenue numbers from various tubes. I've seen some of these figures and frankly it isn't as much as I would have thought. In some cases I did more revenue per week selling AVS sites circa-1999 than some of these tubes did in selling the company's dating product product in one week during 2015. The tubes in fact sent more free members in one month to the company's dating site than I used to get clicks to my site during a whole year back in 1999.

So how could I have made more still with just some shitty AVS site while sitting in a college dorm drinking beer? Well I don't know how far back you go in adult but it really is true that back in 1999 you could have a 1:100 ratio, a 10% ctr, and make $100+ per average sale. This wasn't just a few master marketers doing this but pretty much everyone at the time. To understand, take these numbers and use them for your own traffic right now. Estimate your earnings under those numbers. Now compare to what you are actually making. Do this and you should see that it is unlikely that what you are saying is true...

That sounds good, but I don't think that's entirely true. I think Met, X-Art, Brazzers still make big sales still, yes.

I think there are also big sites with great original content that are doing bad, and I think that's because of the amount of free content out there. I don't agree that there is a shortage of quality content, I think there's actually more exclusive, good quality content on the web than ever, catering to all fetishes. It's a bit more spread out now, and more of it is amateur production, and direct clip sales. Take a look at Clips4Sale, there are many microniches thriving there. Ok, maybe there were more big budget original sites popping up in the Bang Bus era, but there are still many nice paysites with original and very high quality content.

People whining about how good and original 80s and 90s porn were... come on. They were not, they were cheesy. I threw out my old DVDs. :P Niche and microniche websites today and the last 10 years have done better than ever to squeeze everything out of an idea, niche, fantasy, or fetish. But originality is often not enough to be truly successful.

There are still sites filled with junk old scenes making big time sales I think. Because they have very appealing free tours making them look a lot better than they really are, multiple pre-checked cross sales setup with other similar sites, traffic networks to pump them, big PPS for affiliates because they do lots of upsells and cross-sells, and a huge affiliate base promoting them - often with unconventional methods that you praise, possibly mailers/chatters too.

Also keep in mind that no matter how great a "quality" of a porn scene you produce...it just means that it gets pirated and given away for free even faster.

Claudia Marie just shot for Score. They put her scene out on Saturday. And someone had already tweeted out the link to a pirate site to see the whole thing for free within the first hour of it being released.

THAT is what has caused sales to tank. Why pay for the exact same porn that you can get for free?
That's why we're very interactive in Claudia Marie's site...the members P.M. her from the members area, she does free live cams for them, etc.
But for most companies that hire girls to shoot scenes...the actual PORN is the bread and butter...they don't have access to the models every day to be able to be that interactive with their members.

And it's being stolen so fast that we can't even keep up with it. :(

As long as stealing content is legal on the internet...it will continue this way.

No, no - I meant if you are HIGH then you THINK you are getting more Joins. :D

Yup, exactly.

You are lucky that you work with Claudia-Marie. Her interactivity makes her unique and allows you to continue to keep Members interested. But not everyone has a CM.

Pre-recorded sex scenes - the only thing I consider content and PORN - is dying and when 99.9% of production stops guess what will happen? The big tubes will start shooting their own stuff to feed their beast (as you pointed out is already happening) and the big cam companies will ALSO shoot for tubes (to keep the customers coming in).

But customers are smart and getting smarter every day. Let's remember, most guys ONLY want to wank it, cum and get back to the business of the day. Only a tiny percentage wants to sit there and actually TALK to a live girl. Yuck, who want's that? I got six mins to jerk off and get back to the office. LOL So I'm hoping average porn surfers are starting to get this whole 'bait-and-switch' thing when it comes to tubes and cams. :)

Of course you are right, ratios on straight up banner clicks, tube videos plays etc are worse. Nobody would ever deny that, but thats not what I said. If ratios are worse, you just need more traffic (or different traffic). I know it sounds silly to say that, but its what those who are doing well have done. And don't kid yourself, getting ratios like that and better are still available and there are webmaster doing hundreds of joins a day with numbers like that. From tube banner clicks, lol, of course not, but via social networking, email and other sources.

Lots of people are twisting my argument. So I'll be clear.....

ratios ARE worse
Free porn is everywhere and pay site sales are down

but....

Sales on other products are up and making up the difference, and there are plenty of whales out there doing ridiculous numbers of sales. From different sources than in 99 (LOTS of social media etc) and there are far, far fewer affiliates able to compete. I didn't say it hasn't gotten harder, what I said was the cream rise to the top and while its not a cakewalk like it used to be, creative affiliates have done whatever needed to be done to keep their sales the same or rising. New methods, new verticals etc

I feel for producers, its a bitch for sure.

But while its pirated and there are tons of people watching it for free, the best sites still do a lot of sales. Far more than I would have expected all things considered. I don't know the exact numbers, but the overall number of people online is WAY, WAY up from 99-2000. Yes, lots watch for free, but many still pay. Id assume its the older guys, less tech savvy guys paying more now since any kid coming up knows where / how to access free porn, but Im sure you could share if the demographic of purchasers has changed much?? Id be really curious

I'm mostly ignoring anything about whether it is harder for affiliates/others and am instead focusing solely on whether the total revenue in adult (porn+dating+cams mainly) is higher in 2015 versus 2000.

I'll just make some points to make it a quicker read rather than a wall of text.

- There are more people online. Definitely, but a good portion of that traffic is almost garbage. So it doesn't end up being a 1000% increase or anything near what you need to offset the negatives. I remember arguing over this with Fabian of Manwin circa 2011 and actually going into country of origin figures from official internet traffic sources over the last couple decades.

- A dating company which had their data leaked also had some reports leaked which detailed affiliate earnings. The reports showed that their top earners (mostly tubes) appeared to make less than about $3,000 per week. In fact beyond the top 10 it was pretty much all under $1,000 a week. A few hundred a week put you in the top 100 for sure.

Granted there are bigger companies in the dating game as is there also cams but I think this still shows something. The money being made today from these traffic sources isn't near what some assume they are. The weaker ability to monetize traffic (as compared to before) significantly harms earnings industry wide. Basically you have something like 10x more traffic doing $2 cpm now versus 1x the traffic doing $30-$50+ cpm in 1999. This results in a relative net loss. Of course individual results vary but we're talking overall only.

:thumbsup

And all these hundreds of joins a day are legit joins, right? Completely 100% REAL joins, right?

Right.

Usually I don't agree with your skepticism but I concur when it comes to cams and dating. I don't believe the numbers being touted are real, legit numbers but rather where the criminal element has migrated to now that it's harder to bang cards and pre-checked cross sells with paysites. It's not smarts and talent and better marketing, that's bullshit. At the heart of it all is deception.

Sure you can make more money now with additional revenue streams but natural business diversification is NOT the same as a growing (or healthy) Industry.

Porn Nerd,

The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.?
― J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan

;)

A whale sends a join.

It's a "legitimate" join.

Whether however , it is cross sold or upsold or whatever common place , and , truly legitimate , form of aggressive marketing is used by the paysite to maximise the dollars on the original affiliate join...to the affiliate it was just a "legitimate" join.

Believe some whales can and do send hundreds of joins a day everyday. Believe :)

Some spend more than you can possibly imagine every month on media buys , etc.

Mate , there are many people on this board who truly believe.

They believe because they have either done it or seen it (handled the affiliate account, media buys, admined/owned the paysite.

You make well thought out intelligent posts.......occasionally... ;-))

Don't ruin the validity of those points to the lurkers , who are believers, through being a non-believer. ;)

Believe....and one day , you too might be able to fly...

;-)))

JA$ON - do I know you? some very good posts, interesting read.

So say. There's more money in cams than there ever was. Dating isn't strictly porn it's social. Many have moved over to it, so not losing.

When I said less money in porn. I meant the entire industry.

Porn was once recorded, printed and live via a phone. The money in retail was huge.

Then it went online. Paysites were the biggest portion of most people's income. By far.

Now we have free porn with 100s of millions a day sucking up free porn. So are the paysites left and Cams able to replace the income paysites provided? For the majority left that's a big no. For the 1,000s who left the industry it's a bigger no.

Dating is slightly different to porn. Porn is for people to jerk off to. Dating is for meeting people to have a relationship with. you might as well call "Blind Date" a porn program. Have porn affiliates mover to sending traffic or having white label dating sites?

Yes. It's still a different industry, try putting a picture of two people fucking on a dating site and see how long it lasts.

The price of traffic is a good indicator to the money being made today.

Stay positive, just be in a sector that is also positive.