Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 20562241)

Porn was once recorded, printed and live via a phone. The money in retail was huge.

Then it went online. Paysites were the biggest portion of most people's income. By far.

Now we have free porn with 100s of millions a day sucking up free porn. So are the paysites left and Cams able to replace the income paysites provided? For the majority left that's a big no. For the 1,000s who left the industry it's a bigger no.

Dating is slightly different to porn. Porn is for people to jerk off to. Dating is for meeting people to have a relationship with. you might as well call "Blind Date" a porn program. Have porn affiliates mover to sending traffic or having white label dating sites?

Yes. It's still a different industry, try putting a picture of two people fucking on a dating site and see how long it lasts.

The price of traffic is a good indicator to the money being made today.

Stay positive, just be in a sector that is also positive.

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx (Post 20562223)

Porn Nerd,

The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.”
― J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan

;)

A whale sends a join.

It's a "legitimate" join.

Whether however , it is cross sold or upsold or whatever common place , and , truly legitimate , form of aggressive marketing is used by the paysite to maximise the dollars on the original affiliate join...to the affiliate it was just a "legitimate" join.

Believe some whales can and do send hundreds of joins a day everyday. Believe :)

Some spend more than you can possibly imagine every month on media buys , etc.

Mate , there are many people on this board who truly believe.

They believe because they have either done it or seen it (handled the affiliate account, media buys, admined/owned the paysite.

You make well thought out intelligent posts.......occasionally... ;-))

Don't ruin the validity of those points to the lurkers , who are believers, through being a non-believer. ;)

Believe....and one day , you too might be able to fly...

;-)))

JA$ON - do I know you? some very good posts, interesting read.

Originally Posted by Colmike7 (Post 20562455)

I think collecting and selling user data will be the next thing, just like mainstream is already doing... :winkwink:

Originally Posted by fuzebox (Post 20562553)

Adult dating is really just another way to package recorded content. There are a lot more similarities between dating and paysites than most people think...

I've never worried about what "category" my business was in. Over the last 12 years I've just tried to make the most money off my content, my traffic, or my investment capital. I'd redirect my paysites to a penis pill offer if that resulted in the highest epc for me, there is really no emotional attachment to my content.

Originally Posted by McSpike (Post 20562616)

There is one thing that still holds true in 2015 that I learned in 2000 when I started in this industry:
Don't give up.

Every 2 years it seems I get a new idea on how to squeeze more out from my adult portfolio and it works so good I forget about the idea of selling it all and moving forward. It's been like that for the past 8 years. I kind of cannot get rid of all this money coming from adult industry.

Some things that worked 10 years ago still work just fine. Others don't, of course. If I didn't adapt I would have little to show, that's for sure.

But still it's funny how when you are playing in your little pond and hear stories how this and that doesn't work anymore while you know it still works just fine it makes you realize how you always have to read between the lines, take everything with a grain of salt, use common sense, read selectively, etc to get any useful info out of what is posted on the forums. It's funny how many people spread the wrong info and how many others believe them.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 20562544)

I want to believe! I want to fly!! LOL

No man I know you are 100% correct. I'm not really talking about whale affiliates here. But I DO know the 'whales' exist (you be one of them). :)

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20562624)

So I'm afraid that guys like you and I are never going to have our wings to fly in that area. We will remain caterpillars crawling on the ground and never even get to have a cocoon, much less emerge as butterflies! lol

Originally Posted by McSpike (Post 20562616)

There is one thing that still holds true in 2015 that I learned in 2000 when I started in this industry:
Don't give up.

Every 2 years it seems I get a new idea on how to squeeze more out from my adult portfolio and it works so good I forget about the idea of selling it all and moving forward. It's been like that for the past 8 years. I kind of cannot get rid of all this money coming from adult industry.

Some things that worked 10 years ago still work just fine. Others don't, of course. If I didn't adapt I would have little to show, that's for sure.

But still it's funny how when you are playing in your little pond and hear stories how this and that doesn't work anymore while you know it still works just fine it makes you realize how you always have to read between the lines, take everything with a grain of salt, use common sense, read selectively, etc to get any useful info out of what is posted on the forums. It's funny how many people spread the wrong info and how many others believe them.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20562624)

But whales are no longer wasting their time with paysites. I think that Nick will tell you that.
They send their traffic where the money is for them. And now that piracy is in full effect and entire members areas are ripped for free...the money isn't there for them to send to paysites.

The true "whales" that Nick refers to are pushing other things in adult: dating, cams, pills, etc.

And the ones that work with Nick are doing it all with mailing. He's the king.

So I'm afraid that guys like you and I are never going to have our wings to fly in that area. We will remain caterpillars crawling on the ground and never even get to have a cocoon, much less emerge as butterflies! lol

Originally Posted by signupdamnit (Post 20562012)

I'm mostly ignoring anything about whether it is harder for affiliates/others and am instead focusing solely on whether the total revenue in adult (porn+dating+cams mainly) is higher in 2015 versus 2000.

I'll just make some points to make it a quicker read rather than a wall of text.

- There are more people online. Definitely, but a good portion of that traffic is almost garbage. Now that statement is just not true. Sure, some traffic is garbage, but to say all the increased traffic we have now vs 2000 is low quality is just inaccurate. I see stats (some my own, some from others) on email, socialNetworks etc that are doing 1:5 click to free and 1:12 free to paid on dating...on huge volume. A HUGE % of the increase over 7-10 years ago is in social networking, which is tailor made for dating and cams. So it doesn't end up being a 1000% increase or anything near what you need to offset the negatives. I remember arguing over this with Fabian of Manwin circa 2011 and actually going into country of origin figures from official internet traffic sources over the last couple decades.

- A dating company which had their data leaked also had some reports leaked which detailed affiliate earnings. The reports showed that their top earners (mostly tubes) appeared to make less than about $3,000 per week. In fact beyond the top 10 it was pretty much all under $1,000 a week. A few hundred a week put you in the top 100 for sure. Im not sure what tube that is, and what sponsor. If its traffic from videos pre rolls, under player, banner etc. If so how many videos, how many views? The big Tubes are generating into the 6 figures a month for EACH of their top banner spots. And there are more than a few dating sponsors doing 1000+ joins a day. In some cases, far more than that. To just say their top earner is making 3k a week is not enough info and is definitely not any indication of the state of traffic as a whole. Its like saying "I know a sandwich shop and they only sell 10 sandwiches a day, therefor the food service industry is obviously not what it used to be.

Granted there are bigger companies in the dating game as is there also cams but I think this still shows something. The money being made today from these traffic sources isn't near what some assume they are. The weaker ability to monetize traffic (as compared to before) significantly harms earnings industry wide. Basically you have something like 10x more traffic doing $2 cpm now versus 1x the traffic doing $30-$50+ cpm in 1999. This results in a relative net loss. Of course individual results vary but we're talking overall only. First, There is FAR, FAR, FAR more than 10X the amount of traffic than there was in those days. At the end of 97, there were apx 70 million internet users, in 2014, its 3 Billion+. Thats 42X more actual people. And they are online, more often, for longer and on new devices. The increase in total Pageviews vs 97 is many hundreds of times larger.

Side note, nerd porn:

This is almost unbelievable, but its true.........Take a look at the internet as a whole from 1997-2014. In 1997, the web as a whole used apx 2400 GB per day of BW. In 2014, lol, it used that much ever 0.14 SECONDS. If you do the math to figure that increase, its almost laughable......we use 608,000X more BW than we did in 97

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx (Post 20562674)

King? I am merely a Baron , there are Viscounts and Earls and Dukes and Princes before you ever get near being King. ;)

Originally Posted by JA$ON (Post 20562821)

Replies in red :)

Side note, nerd porn:

This is almost unbelievable, but its true.........Take a look at the internet as a whole from 1997-2014. In 1997, the web as a whole used apx 2400 GB per day of BW. In 2014, lol, it used that much ever 0.14 SECONDS. If you do the math to figure that increase, its almost laughable......we use 608,000X more BW than we did in 97.

Originally Posted by jerkules (Post 20562868)

There are many valid thoughts in this very thread. Great to see some refreshment on gfy.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 20562856)

OK can we call you Baron Pornmeister? Or even better, the "Duke Of Porn"? What rhymes with 'Viscount'? Discount? LOL Either way you are Royalty, that's the point. :)



Damn, 'nerd porn' is taken! Ah well.....LOL

I hear ya man, the Internet has EXPLODED since the nineties. Of course, there are things like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and a zillion other mega-popular sites eating up that bandwidth. Pre-all those sites porn was IT in terms of a magnet to get peole to log onto the Internet. Now? Porn is probably WAY down the list of why people "use" the Internet. I read somewhere that 75% of average people think Facebook IS "the Internet".

But I get your point(s). There are many, many more fish to catch today then there ever was pre-2000. :)

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx (Post 20562674)

Robbie , Porn Nerd

LOL

King? I am merely a Baron , there are Viscounts and Earls and Dukes and Princes before you ever get near being King. ;)

And re "" I have different life goals now at my advanced age""

Me too , my goal is to sleep through the night without having to get up for a piss ;-))

Fireflies are pretty cool.

Originally Posted by JA$ON (Post 20562821)

Now that statement is just not true. Sure, some traffic is garbage, but to say all the increased traffic we have now vs 2000 is low quality is just inaccurate. I see stats (some my own, some from others) on email, socialNetworks etc that are doing 1:5 click to free and 1:12 free to paid on dating...on huge volume. A HUGE % of the increase over 7-10 years ago is in social networking, which is tailor made for dating and cams.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20562983)

Is it still okay if I refer to you as "Your Majesty"?

Originally Posted by C H R I S (Post 20563024)

Great Thread Jason.

I agree that there is just as much money to be made in the business as a whole. But much of it is controlled by a smaller group of people. Traditional "porn" producers and sites are hurting big time. The sites that are doing well are the larger established ones and some with shall we say "aggressive" marketing strategies.

Starting in 2008/ 2009 I was still running AVN Online and Internext- when the affiliate program implosion started happening. Silvercash was first, they pulled their two page spread in AVN Online and the rest of the companies fell like dominoes in the next 6-8 months until the magazine folded into AVN magazine as a section.

I moved into the traffic after that which was good for me as much of the economy shifted from affiliate programs to traffic companies and publishers.

Honestly I think of cams and dating as separate sectors of the larger "adult world", without them many in this business would be out of business including the tubes.

It really does no good to bitch and moan about how bad things have gotten - get off your ass and find a better way, a better traffic source a better business plan.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 20563074)

We should meetup in Amsterdam. I have a feeling your experience (and wisdom) would be good for me and my company. Your comments here prove that to me. :)

I often think (some, not all) major paysites have the business model Fuzebox is referring to; break even on Joins and make the profit in some other way.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20562983)

Is it still okay if I refer to you as "Your Majesty"?

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20563094)

Common sense tells you that women don't NEED to join a "dating site". Men do. Women can walk into any bar, snap their fingers and get laid if they want to. That fact did not change because the internet came into existence. Some basic laws still apply, and that will always be one of them.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20563094)

Common sense tells you that women don't NEED to join a "dating site".

Men do.

Women can walk into any bar, snap their fingers and get laid if they want to.
That fact did not change because the internet came into existence. Some basic laws still apply, and that will always be one of them.

Originally Posted by C H R I S (Post 20563104)

Add me to skype or ICQ: 605769249

Would be happy to sit down with you in Amsterdam.

:thumbsup:thumbsup

Originally Posted by JA$ON (Post 20562821)

I see stats (some my own, some from others) on email, socialNetworks etc that are doing 1:5 click to free and 1:12 free to paid on dating

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 20563193)

Don't start.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20563094)

Common sense tells you that women don't NEED to join a "dating site".

Men do.

Women can walk into any bar, snap their fingers and get laid if they want to.
That fact did not change because the internet came into existence. Some basic laws still apply, and that will always be one of them.

Originally Posted by Seth Manson (Post 20564685)

Jason, how did you get started in this business?

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20563094)

Common sense tells you that women don't NEED to join a "dating site".

Men do.

Women can walk into any bar, snap their fingers and get laid if they want to.
That fact did not change because the internet came into existence. Some basic laws still apply, and that will always be one of them.

Originally Posted by Relentless (Post 20563237)

Interesting you say that...

One of the most effective sales pitches you can make in dating right now is that women join dating sites because they DO need to, since they want to date men who have good careers and who don't want to waste their time sitting around being bar flies. Yes, men join dating sites to get laid, and women join dating sites to meet men who can get laid.

Bars are only for women who date men that aren't desirable to other women.

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