Quite a ridiculous thing to say - but you're entitled to your opinion I guess ...

The father of the drowned boy has returned to the city in Syria that were trying to flee.

Drowned toddler Aylan Kurdi laid to rest in Syrian city he fled

That city is Kobani - one of the cities that was attacked by ISIS.


.

One thing I will say, when you see what the babies and kids have to deal with at such a young age, it makes me feel like telling any kid I see in a McDonald's or toy store throwing a tantrum because they aren't getting what they want to shut the fuck up.

The 3 year old kid next door to my house is a spoiled little cunt. His parents are to blame obviously. They actually brag about how much they spend on him at Birthdays and Christmas... Idiots.

[QUOTE=k0nr4d;20570499]Here's a video of the poor women and children (that definately are NOT an invasion force) throwing away food and water given to them by your authorities... The water can't even stand on the train platform with them. They are throwing the shit away onto the train tracks. They came uninvited to your country and are littering.



Konrad, this video represents 5% of the story that happened to them here in Hungary so far. Those [mostly hungarians] who see and know the whole story Do Understand why hey are doing here. :2 cents:

It is very tough to have an objective opinion about this as I am hungarian [and we seem to be in focus now as ~main entry point to EU or whatever] and I am emotionally disturbed by what is happening here.

I am very upset to hear you agree with our prime minister. What our gov does and How It REacts and Does Things is pretty much fucked up and very disturbing, really. :( The fence, the posters all around the country against migrants, and every little thing about them: it's terrible! The only good things I see is the Migration Aid and civil communities doing, the people of Budapest and Bicske who take families into their homes so they can have a bath and take a sleep not-on-the-floor, etc.

I know this is history happening here, and that this migration can't be stopped and that there will be consequences for the european people. I say this is something that cannot be altered, migration is happening and will happen forever. We have to do the best, with the best intentions, assuming good from these people, not the worst.

I really hope that this will be a 'temporary thing' and most of these refugees will go home in a few years, when the dust is a bit more settled.. Also hoping that these people will assimilate - I know the standard expectations...

Someone mentioned USA has nothing to do w this, as the last drone attacks were more than a year ago: this is not one simple thing making these people leave their ruined homelands, those attacks [however I am not aware of the full story [of the last decades of Syria are relevant at least]] but that was a part of the happenings most likely.

Europe faces a huge challenge, and to me it seems based on the reaction of the people of hungary/eastern-european countries: this is a choice/conflict between the Core Countries/culture of the E and the balkanic countries. I hope that the western civilization wins.

Let's just stay Good People, and make no way for the hate speech and bad expectations and agression.

Kid next door to me was rowing with his mum. At one point I heard him say, if you don't allow me to watch telly, I'll call social services.

My mum would have kicked my arse and delivered me to social services all in the same movement.

I would have got "the slipper" off the arse if I came away with a statement like that when I was younger...

What is the ridiculous part? It is desert. It won't sustain large amounts of any living thing. The water they use is fossil ground water and is bound to end. The farm land suffers from salinization, that actually destroyed one of the earliest human settlements around that area (and in human history altogether).


"So how did Fertile Crescent peoples lose that big lead? The short answer is ecological suicide: They inadvertently destroyed the environmental resources on which their society depended. Just as the region's rise wasn't due to any special virtue of its people, its fall wasn't due to any special blindness on their part. Instead, they had the misfortune to be living in an extremely fragile environment, which, because of its low rainfall, was particularly susceptible to deforestation.

When you clear a forest in a high-rainfall tropical area, new trees grow up to a height of 15 feet within a year; in a dry area like the Fertile Crescent, regeneration is much slower. And when you add to the equation grazing by sheep and goats, new trees stand little chance. Deforestation led to soil erosion, and irrigation agriculture led to salinization, both by releasing salt buried deep in the ground and by adding salt through irrigation water. After centuries of degradation, areas of Iraq that formerly supported productive irrigation agriculture are today salt pans where nothing grows."


"Iraq's decline holds a broader significance. Many other countries today face similar crippling environmental problems, including the deforestation, overgrazing, erosion and salinization that brought down the Fertile Crescent. Other countries already crippled or nearly so by such problems include Haiti, Somalia, Rwanda, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nepal, the Philippines and Indonesia."

The Erosion of Civilization - latimes

Ha ha, I use to get "the slipper" too ... And the broom, mop ... Pretty much anything lying close to hand.

The world over, water has to come from somewhere. In the middle east (at least in almost all GCC countries) we have the sea and huge desalination plants. We also import a fuck load of "mineral water". Unlike the UK that imposes a hose ban every so often, and California that is suffering a drought, the Middle Eat does ok for being a desert.

I say "we" but I no longer live there ... Too lazy to change it ....

Only time I see a camel in Bahrain or Dubai is when I actively go out looking for one. You know ... on lonely nights ....but usually we just shag dirty English or pinoy birds ...

I don't know if this has any bearing on your opinion, but refugees will not go home. They are looking for a new home. They may even think, this very minute, that they will go home if things ever get better. But things will never get better, their new home will be significantly better than the old home. They will build a life in their new home. Their kids will have friends. They will have friends.

You can take them in. You can try to keep them out. But know that they are not going back to wherever they came from. In fact, there will only be more as their families grow and they send for friends and families from their homeland.

And what you described is not very sustainable. Importing everything is not very sustainable nor environmental friendly option and nor is practicing any larger scale agriculture around there. Nor desalinization is sustainable (shit loads of waste salt). Before they had mainly camels for a reason and the population wasn't that big for the same reasons. They should have more camels, as that is pretty much the only sustainable thing around there.

Being sustainable, it is not about lingering just now.. it is about being sustainable. The situation in California is neither sustainable and will blow on Yankee face on one day, probably not so far in the future.

This also is not immigration. This is an invasion pure and simple.

I don't think you or your children need to worry about a migration issue from the Middle East due to water ...

From what I heard from two Syrians (early immigrants) working for Germany immigration agencies, at least half of refugees are just other arabs pretending to be from Syria and trying to get in under the pretext they are Syrians

Than... I am happy for them. And I welcome them. I believe in this whole situation can have a good outcome.

3 months ago i met a Syrian refugee on Spanish class in Mexico. He flew a long route and entered through Mexico trough Brazil. Easy to stay there on visa, just do a visum run every 6 months..

He was a cristian and told how his friends died, he was in the army but didn't even know who where the good and bad guys. He left his family alone and everyday watching the news, bombs falling around his old neighbourhood. Good man, living in the wrong part of the world. He was thinking going to USA or stay in Mexico.

It is not europe that kills the refugees, but by promising them shelter they will keep coming on all sort of ships. Better to not pick them up, but prevent them to step on a dangerous ship.

Maybe sent a big cruiseship there and sent them to Brazil. Cause the media there is blaming Europe (but they never will take any refugees themselves).

Maybe it is an IS conspiracy. First we get millions of refugees that burn all our money. Make a part of the people angry cause they don't want that many foreigners and in the end IS will start the terror in EU.

I think better help them in the region, sent them to rich arabic countries, bring a cruise ship in to go to South America and than start bombing the crazy people like IS. Else there will be millions more coming.

Or can't we just sent them back with guns so they can fight for their own country?

Europe must spent more money to do something together.

So many solutions.

Very interesting article, while I knew about the Fertile Crescent I really never really knew why the Middle East became 'the cradle of civilization'. And it answers a question I've asked many times, how could the modern human species that has been around for 200,000 years, remaining hunter gatherers for 190,000 years, have progressed so little?
That article spells it out, the Fertile Crescent was like a garden of Eden,so bountiful that farming evolved and surpluses of food so that people could do other things with their lives besides hunting for food.

Our own native Indians must have been morons, they were still hunter gatherers when the Europeans got here, though they did do some farming as well. They didn't even have THE WHEEL! Of course the reason we're told the Indians were so primitive is that they were at one with Nature, that it was their choice.

Can't read all that shit above. Situation is clear and simple. Barbaric and religious fanatics are getting inside and occupying europe without single shot fired. Those who don't have experience with muslim population shouldn't give their opinion. What is shown on TV is not even close to what Is hapenning every fucking day . Europe is islamized and they will fuck you up when there are enough of them. I can't wait to see faces of people like MaDalton when they come in his village and tell him that beer is forbidden and that he can choose will they cut his head off or he will accept Islam.

War is there for many years and suddenly they rush in Europe? Bullshit. We are talking about tons and tons of military capable people (religious fanatics).

yesterday I ve talked to cab driver. He said (in short, I don't have time to write everything now) that he took tons of money in previous period with people well organized which means next: they come like dirty and poor refugees. They stop him and tell him to drive to bank. Once they are out of bank, they give him from 50 up to 100 bucks to help them buy clothing in shopping malls. Next station is hotel where they pay more to cab driver who will come in the morning to take them. In the morning transformation is incredible, new clothes, sunglasses, perfume ....and next station is straight to the border to go further.

Ask anyone who is working inside security (military,police) how dangerous thisshit is and how much damage they can do from the inside (remember Charlie Hebdo?)

There are tons of them with money and not real refugees. Why they don't go to muslim countries but they choose Europe?

https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=url


This is recent picture from Belgrade, there were no way that this kind of shit could be seen here before. Sick.

http://s5.postimg.org/mlc9tky9j/2361...f8cd1c6650.jpg


Budapest today:

Absolute truth.

LOL. It is already part of the issue. Has been for decades. Lack of water adds to the area's general suckyness and has been part of the issues between Israel and Palestine for long time. There are Palestine refugees you know.

The author of that has by the way answer or at least theory for your native indians too. It doesn't explain everything, but I think it establishes great foundation to approach these things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel


About indians in generally, the indians in US region and the indians in Middle- and South America were vastly different.

I think most of us have forgotten that we were the ones taking out a dictator in Iraq, then we thought it would be a good idea to go to Afganistan and sort that country out as well, then fuck me that still wasent good enough, so we then decided to go to Libya and take out that dictator. We then thought it would be an awesome idea to try and push our western ways onto people who have totaly different beliefs to what we have.

Somehwere along the line we also thought that we could get different tribes to all of a sudden become best buddys and to work together to have peacefull westernised countrys in the middle east.

The countries who decided to go and destabilize parts of the middle east are the countries who should be helping these refuges. We are the ones who caused an uprise in groups like ISIS and other groups. Im sure if any one of us were living in the conditions in Iraq, Syria and Libya you would be doing the same thing and trying to get your family out of those countries as far away as possible.

Well, as they have had that tribe shit for centuries or thousands of years, they should feel homely and cozy while fighting against each other from time to time. It is their way of life, let's not question it. No need to push "peaceful" western ways for them. :)

Maybe we should assume that the Syrian refugees are just victims of western propaganda, you know; peace and that stuff. And at the first note to return these misled people. They might otherwise miss some jolly fighting. :upsidedow

No one there was not stupid not to see what will happen if "dictators" were taken down. it was about profit. Those dictators maintained peace, progress and mostly peaceful life. If there were some problem,it was local. You could do legitimate business in Iraq, Libya and Syria before wars and they were paying without problems. There were no muslim extremism,and dictators had to be that,to maintain and resolve all that shit.

Anyway, what you sad is completely true and what is going on now is result of that. But it will be much worse, if those imigrants stay in Europe. They won't integrate, they will make their ghettos and societies. As they reproduce like a bugs, in few decades they will take over Europe and push their rules. By force. Already happened in Kosovo , it was completely same scenario like now but no one gave a fuck when they started terror and ambushes.Not only that, but "west " gave them their own state operated by smugglers, and criminals where from now they have starting point to go furhter.

It is a part of a plan, no one is stupid or blind not to see what will happen.

U know what we never had this problem brfore and they did not want to leave the countries like they do now. This has all happened after we went over and fucked thier countries up for them so we only ahve ourselves to blame.

Of course it will happen its allready happening in parts of London with Muslim areas and this is why there needs to be camps so the real refuges can be procesed and given some kind of life in a peacefull country. What David Cameron said is, he will not let refuges in from Turkey or Europe but he is willing to let people from the refuge camps come into the UK so they can be properly vetted. For once he has his head screwed on.

But at the end of the day we caused this shit so we have to deal with it

Our news blamed the TV and I am all for it. :)

They watch how we have better living standards and suddenly they want to swap the jolly fighting to munching hamburgers or frog legs or bratwurst or whatever. Finland has the benefit that our traditional foods are not that popular abroad.

http://img.yle.fi/uutiset/arkisto/ar...TES/w580/mammi

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I know, I was watching some videos online and was scared as shit when I saw what they are doing in London. And you are in right,this shit has to be solved. It is late already and last thing that should be done is to let millions to enter continent ,like it is happening now.

Imagine what would they do if they have technological advantage over western civilization? They would burn and ruin everything they can, just like they are doing now in IS territories (or like they did in Kosovo)

Yeah Iv seen that vid and more where they have Muslim vigilante groups telling British people in thier own country that they are not allowed to drink as its a Muslim area and also telling British girls they should cover them selves up in a Muslim areas.

In Holland it is almost code red for terrorism. The people don't know what is happening cause it is secret information. But something is happening cause a lot extra security in the government.

I know a teacher in a Ducth school. When they murdered a Dutch artist here Theo van Gogh (a little like Charlie Hebdo) all foreign students started celebrating... He stopped teaching there, he said he saw what would tricker riots in Holland. I am afraid he could be right. Just like in France several years ago. But how to prevent that?

How can you prevent when you let savages in?

Not possible. 2 different cultures, they do not know how to live in western civilization, they do not even like it.

Well said.

The question is WHY the fuck Eu governments welcome this plague with open arms?
Who is having all the strings in order to destroy Europe?

think you got me mixed up, never worked for a porn company i was always an affiliate... now im curious which company you mean

Savages? LOL! Get over yourself mini Hitler!

You can't go around dropping buzzwords like Operation Freedom, telling your country's constituents that you're invading another country to bring them democracy (that they never asked for) and then leave those countries worse off than they were and except no blowback from the "savages".

You romance them with the ideas of democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of expression, etc. and when they come to your country and try and do exactly these things, you throw a fucking hissy fit?

Konrad, it's not just refugees doing this though is it? There's a lot of Poles, Romanians, etc. in the UK on the scrounging ... I mean benefit system. Why are you so surprised that people what to go where the grass is greener?

Poles demand millions from Britain to pay their benefits: Eastern European governments want cash for returning migrants | Daily Mail Online

The UK even pays out for children that aren't even in the UK:
Britain sending £600k abroad EVERY week: Poles demand millions from UK to pay their benefits to immigrants whose children live abroad | Daily Mail Online

i think you are meaning to refer to operation enduring freedom, there was no operation freedom. and operation enduring freedom was a military effort to stop the taliban, not spread democracy.

the USA has never attempted to inject democracy into Syria, those people took their own initiative against a violent regime.

That's just semantics and I was referring to Operation Iraqi Freedom really:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

Look, this isn't a dig at Americans. I'm not into bashing any country. My points were simple and clear.

i never said you were bashing, or taking a dig at Americans, settle down. nevertheless, the operation you are actually referring to happened 15 years ago in Iraq, that has nothing to do with Syria in 2011-2015.

by most all accounts, the Syrian uprising/civil war began within the entire arab spring ~2011. that uprising was a direct consequence of julian assange and wikileaks in 2011, it was furthered by the wikileaks release of the Syria files in 2012.


Amnesty International hails WikiLeaks and Guardian as Arab spring 'catalysts' | World news | The Guardian

Syrians aren't the only refugee problem facing Europe. It's just the latest.

Just because there was no direct hand in the Syrian conflict doesn't mean there was no involvement. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Western Europe and America have a long and storied past with the Middle East and Asia. In some cases causing irreparable damage (India - Pakistan and Iran - Iraq for example). To you and me, these are old events but to the people that live there; it is very ongoing.

Actions on the ground and in government buildings do little to ally us to these people after we've already destroyed any semblance of normal life they may have had:
Translator abandoned by UK is executed as he tries to flee Taliban | Daily Mail Online

The entire Arab Spring episode came about as a direct result of Western involvement in the region, Syria included.

this is patently false.

in fact Obama avoided involvement in Syria for years after the uprising started, many wanted him to help oust the dictator there, he did not.

Assimilation, Tranportation or Annihilation.

There aren't many other options...

When political correctness becomes unsustainable...
it will look something like this:

https://36.media.tumblr.com/97b73644...vzrko1_500.jpg

Unfortunatly... the world is not a fairground...
Mankind is in it's puberty right now, and all the bullshit it produced and still produces (religion, morals, nationalism, etc) is something that should be overcome...
For that to happen... we need plenty of more wars... Piece is just tiredness...
...unless you think the world as it is today is a perfect place...

Patently false about the West's involvement in the region?

How so? Libya is most definitely "in the region" ....

from all expert accounts, the arab spring resulted from the information released by julian assange/wikileaks. i included a link (above) from the international rights organization, Amnesty International, that explains it well. wikileaks and julian assanges also released the syria file, which truly ignited the civil war in Syria, based on leaked information from the Syrian regime re: the people there.


https://wikileaks.org/syria-files/

that has a good overview.

From your link: Arab Spring started in 2010

really? you do realize your argument isn't with me, i'm regurgitating the experts, the syria files "further propelled" the civil war there, as i stated above.


either way,

i get your need to blame America, feel free.

The Syrian Civil War ... began in the early spring of 2011 within the context of Arab Spring protests, with nationwide protests against President Bashar al-Assad's government, whose forces responded with violent crackdowns. The conflict gradually morphed from prominent protests to an armed rebellion after months of military sieges.

https://web.archive.org/web/20131003...21-people.html





I get your need to blame America, you are free to do so.

Need to blame America? I'm not blaming America. As far as I know most Americans didn't even want to be involved. I'm not blaming anyone; things are what they are and mankind will resolve it one way or another. We're usually a resilient lot.

By the way, what happened to this:
How did we make the leap from you not saying I was bashing or taking a dig at Americans to you actually saying I was blaming Americans? I thought we were having a very pleasant conversation ...

Still not Thursday 5 July 2012 is it? :)