50 bozos who think "freedom" is about being able to wire money to ISIS in secret.

51 idiots who think that ISIS is funded from direct personal wire transfers.

Right.

:1orglaugh

Think you are missing the point here.

A govt saying it wants permanent access to the international money transfer service does not infringe on the rights of any of you.

To suggest it does is just silly.

They have this access whenever they want it.

YOU ARE ALL STILL FREE TO DO WHATEVER YOU LIKE. !!!

You're fucking dense.

This is where you fail. One of the most important rights is the right to privacy. It is usually the first one cited and since this is an attack on financial privacy, it is an attack on that fundamental right. In this case, impinge is probably a more suitable word than infringe.

However, the point is that it is a constant, cumulative attack or gradual breaking down of rights that is very obvious and sinister as the justification given (ie terrorism) has nothing to do with the final purpose behind the action.

How do you get from A to Z without passing B, C, D etc. These kinds of steps are the B, C, D - gradual erosion of rights and freedoms that intelligent, well educated people understand just by watching what their government is doing rather than what their government is saying. Actions speak louder than words.

Just as the final proof is that the data will be used for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with terrorism. Just as the NSA and GCHQ use surveillance data for all sorts of different reasons with terrorism being only a miniscule part of that. In fact, its used against "anyone" who the government wants information on and for whatever reason.

You certainly do NOT have the right to privacy in your financial affairs.

What makes you think that you do ?

You have to file your tax return and declare the source of your income and the beneficiary of any expenditure. If they suspect you are lying about any of that the tax authorities have the right to rip open every aspect of your life going back as long as they see fit. Every financial institution you have every spoken to will pour out its guts without even asking for a court order. In the UK Her Majesties Revenue and Customs have more powers than the police.

I must remember what you said the next time that the tax authorities want to route through my companies affairs and personal accounts. I will simply tell them to fuck off because the right to financial privacy is a fundamental right and it is a slippery slope to a Police state if I am weak enough to let them push me around.

:1orglaugh:thumbsup:1orglaugh

some people just enjoy being slaves. all they want out of a life is maybe a picture to hang in their cell. maybe a new blanket the other one is getting a little frayed.

You're talking about taxation. SWIFT is about transactions.

However, in both cases, every year there is more and more surveillance and government control due to TIEAs and FATCA and policy revisions so on.

And you mention the UK. In the past a freezing order on funds held within a bank account was a process that went through a court. The funds would be frozen and it would take a long judicial process for the government to get recovery. This was judged fair for all as neither party could utilize frozen funds until it was determined in court who had the right.

Today HMRC can simply pull cash out of your bank account without any kind of court order, insolvency proceeding or due process:

When the taxman can take money from your bank account and Isa - Telegraph

Just to illustrate a new power they have taken upon themselves. Listen the internet is littered with examples like this but if you're too much of a miserable, ignorant fuck to see what's going on, too bad....

Its not about being a slave - its about realising what the reality of the situation actually is. We do not have financial privacy now, and since currency wealth became an virtual electronic buzz through the ether we have never had it.

You can witter on about some romantic notion of protecting your freedoms from the relentless evil governments, but you all need to wake up and smell the fucking coffee.

You can go back to passing rare stones and chunks of metal to each other if you want, because unless you are routinely breaking the law with false identities THEY already know your every financial transaction. Down to the last penny. The only reason you are not aware of this is because you are less significant than a boil on the arse of a fly.

So blither on, you are welcome to your fantasy, and please do tell me how you are intending to fight the good fight ?

:thumbsup

Nothing stops terrorism. Or crime. The measures are always aimed at reducing it.

Why are you worried about the Government seeing your financial records?

Your logic could be applied to police on the street. If "No One" haven't committed a crime, why are they there?

Criminals are still free to commit crimes. The problem for them is having police able to see them doing it, or trace them afterwards. I can still transfer money abroad, or receive money via transfers.

Of course the flaw in your logic is this.

SWIFT is for wire transactions and terrorism doesn't even utilize it much and where it does, they will just switch.

How do you know what criminals do?

As for switching, the funds are often in millions. You can apply that logic to criminals using gloves to beat finger prints.

I suspect you have a point. Part of this is to catch people not paying the right amount of tax. Do you think bank accounts should be like those in the Caymans or Switzerland. To protect tax dodgers privacy?

Didn't you think they already had this info? I know anything over 10k is reported the govt here.

That is fucked if true

There are MUCH worse things the .gov does to worry about than SWIFT monitoring.

Fucking scary. Minimalist sustainable living is the way. Fuck it all.

Why is that scary ?

What the fuck are you lot hiding exactly ?

:thumbsup :thumbsup

All SWIFT data was already collected and analyzed by the authorities.