this sounds a lot more like what happening IMO.

the whole post on twitter but no chargers yay but get followers, ruin the #1 guys rep , lock and pin an advertisement on her twitter, no criminal charges, consent to rape play then take it back when its done...

all sounds fishy to me.

On Stoya's twitter, The pinned link to her site with a Deen scene featured in the top spot is so suspect :2 cents:

So when a model in one of your movies asks to stop and she uses her safe word what happens next? Do you stop, take a breath, think about how much more you are willing to pay for her to deliver the goods, gather your patience and start negotiating?

I went to the Max Hardcore school of Porn so I would also claim a certain knowledge and appreciation for the shades of grey.

So...

Are you thinking more about what the customers wants, your bottom line, the bills that need to be paid or are you thinking more about the well being and welfare of the model and the predicaments she or he may also be facing affecting the choices that weigh in on such a moment? You know, walking a mile in their moccasins, then sure, it might be shades of grey but only because you stopped when asked to stop.

But when it comes to using safe words...

Every single bdsm person I know, in the industry, out of the industry, every thing I have ever read, heard, researched, experienced in my own experimentation, everything and everyone stresses the importance of a safe word meaning "NO - STOP - STOP NOW". It is like that for a reason. With your background in shooting this type of content I am pretty shocked that you would be trying defend this as being a mistaken case of misunderstood consent. There is no grey when it comes to consent even in rape play. It is yes or no just like there is no sort of "pregnant". One second, one minute, hours, whatever. Time is not the issue at that point, just the degree to which the wrong is further committed.

When Max was accused of rape years ago, before he even established the Max character, models came to his defense. Are there any models coming to Deen's defense? Seems like just the opposite, including those actively and openly into this lifestyle.

Once again, I am not judging Deen or the women involved. I am just saying if she said stop and he didn't then it should be called what it is.

Wow. Agree. That would be the most fucked up publicity stunt I have ever seen in the biz. More nuts than that CE classic "Trunked". More twisted than "bum fights"... and that is saying something.

NO SHIT GENIUS!? I THOUGHT I COULD JUST PRINT SOMETHING UP AT MY OFFICE TO CHARGE SOMEONE WITH A CRIME. thanks man would i look dumb if i actually did that.

The reality is that if Stoya did go to the police to report the incident as a rape, they would react the same way the majority of this thread has reacted.

At the end of the day it is a "he said, she said" situation unless she somehow has proof. Going to the police would have done nothing, whether there was a crime or not.

I agree. I just don't like the running and hiding after making the allegation.

Personally, JUST my opinion, I think Stoya knew - being Deen's GF - that Deen had a bad rep with female talent. And being a woman she probably heard all the horror stories. So dropping a line like she did would throw open the floodgates and others would support her, which is what's happening. It's the only way she could fight this fight but still, something doesn't smell right here.

:thumbsup

nothing to do with the OP and the ridiculous agenda pushing going on, but to address this part of the thread:

how fucked up for anyone to think a safe word is anything other than an absolute, unequivocal, non-interpretational, clear as fucking day message to "STOP!"

No means no, even if I'm balls deep and 30 seconds from jizzing... I can't think of anything more of a turn-off than a woman telling me to stop tbh, giving that clear indication she isn't enjoying herself... though I realise this board is filled with idiots who will self-justify carrying on. And that includes using a safe word in place of 'no', if that's the way I'm playing that day. What kind of brain-dead sack of shit can't comprehend that every other sound means nothing, but safe_word_here means STOP NOW!

jesus fucking christ there are some cunts around.

Let me preface this by stating I think James Deen is an obnoxious cunt of a manchild, and Stoya is a pseudo-intellectual asshat who has read a book once and now is, somehow, the female voice of this industry. Let me also say that if he did indeed not stop once she said stop then he needs his ass kicked physically, and judicially.

Now that's out of the way... is nobody else picking up on the insane levels of fuckery this has thrown up? Announcing it in public, not to law enforcement, on Twitter months after the incident happened and then immediately saying she will be unreachable to contact for 2 weeks? "Hey guys! James Deen raped me! See you in 2 weeks! Check out my pinned tweet, yo! Bye!" Like what the fuck? And then today Kayden Kross's post in which she states that James Deen content will not be removed from her and Stoyas site due to...

"Our scheduling is slated months in advance and it?s admittedly bad timing that it happened to go live now, but our licensor stands behind it, and so we do too. This is also a movie filmed back in 2013, and also a scene that, if deleted, will ruin the project as a whole."

Does that not seem bananas to anyone else that she/they are justifying keeping, and thus profiting directly off, the James Deen content due to....... ARTISTIC reasons?

CNN just picked the story up, so that will add to the huge surge in traffic to that site they've got over the last few days, I mean, this can't be a stunt, right? I don't know about you guys, and I understand business is business, but if my friend Y said X raped her the last thing I'd do is try and justify that continuing to profit from content featuring her (alleged) rapist is FINE.... as to do otherwise would, somehow, be wrong from their "project". Something is very off about this, very off indeed. :2 cents:

nothing's off about this. seems obvious what's happening here: Deen's getting fucked.

sounds like he REALLY deserves it too

It's not obvious to me. Something has happened for her to suddenly say this rape statement, out of the blue, in public on Twitter. While there have been stories floating around of his shenanigans in the industry for a long time (even us unwashed filthy Eurotrash have heard them), and even with those in the mix I'm still feeling something is off.

Really? If this is what you are into and you set up a safe word. Then that is a word that means, "No, stop right now!" There is no confusion. You might not understand what a safe word is but it is set up just for this situation. It allows you to test your linits and if surpassed, you have a way of stopping it.

No means no. It always did, and always will.

Thank you for crystallizing my thoughts.

:thumbsup

That is untrue, and also a dangerous POV.

Going to the police about anything creates an official record of the event. It shows on a specific day and time a complaint was filed about a specific person for a specific reason, with extensive details. That report MAY lead to a criminal charge if a prosecutor believes they can win a case on the merits by proving the allegations beyond a reasonable doubt (or can at least get beyond the lesser burden of proof required by a grand jury). However, even if the charge is not brought, that record of the event remains and becomes evidentiary in future incidents when applicable.

Failing to go to the police for things like this is a major reason why stalkers are able to continue unabated... because nobody thought it was worth it to go and actually file a report to start the paper trail. I have no facts about this particular case, do not know the parties involved, and have no opinion about their incident. However, I am seeing a number of people suggesting that going to the police is somehow a bad idea or an irrelevant step and that is absolutely terrible advice.

If you, or someone you know, ever feels they have been violated. The best first step is to immediately go to the ER (WITHOUT showering) and get a rape-kit processed. This is important even if sex was not performed to completion. The police will process any evidence and file a complete police report. They will do so whether you are a pornstar, a rock star or a nun... they have ZERO authority to decide whether to file a report or not... they are required by law to file a report and failing to do so may subject the officer, the precinct and the municipality to serious civil lawsuits.

If possible, always bring your cell phone. Always bring a friend to witness the actions of the police. Always get the name AND badge number of the police officer (they must provide their badge number upon request and it is in fact the main reason they each have a unique badge number). Make sure you get details of where the report will be filed and when it will be filed. ALWAYS get a copy of the police report for your own records.

Police are not decision-makers... they are there to keep the peace and record the facts so that decision-makers (prosecutors, juries and judges) can get a clear picture of what happened. The police do not have discretion with regard to what should be documented or whose claims to document. A prosecutor may decide a particular person or charge is not credible... a police officer must record their claim whether he believes you or not. Filing a false claim is an actionable offense... so make sure you tell only the absolute truth.

Going to Twitter instead of the ER and the police is a way to circumvent due process, remove the presumption that someone is innocent until proven guilty, and as a way to assassinate someone's character it may work wonders. However, for anyone actually interested in justice, or seeking to see criminals taken off the streets, the police are an infinitely better place to file claims than social media outlets will ever be.

Amen, well put statement of fact. :thumbsup:2 cents:

Yep, I agree. Learning that makes me look at it very differently although I still hold to my "no means no" comments. I agree though... the excuse not to take it down stinks of dirty money. There is a stench to this that puts a shit stain on everyone in the adult industry.

i know what a safe word means.

i also know theres women who beg for play rape so its a VERY GRAY area to then accuse that partner of rape.

I'm saying this whole scenario sounds fishy.

ie the ad for her sites latest update featuring her and james deen pinned right after her accusing deen of raping her.

ie: she was into this type of stuff

ie: no police report

ie: positing it on her twitter exclusively

its looks like a trumped up publicity stunt all while ruining deen as a bonus.

and like i said if you call someone a rapist you better have hard proof of you are scum yourself.
and yes cutesy women can all do all that dirty evil shit so done be blinded by the vagina.

if you can't understand that angle and want to argue your stale angle of woman's rights and safe words i don't know what else to say ....

Your inflated sense of intellect may work with your toddler but come on man gtfo with this.

only a fucking moron would feel the need to explain that a citizen can't bring charges on another citizen without the da and police.

:thumbsup

Safe word - forget about the rest of it. A safe word is an OUT of a fantasy.

Forget about this scenario entirely, if a couple have a safe word and it is ignored then what ever happens after that is what in your mind? Consensual?

Fuck James Deen. That guy is a scumbag.

I don't think "violence on TV" has anything to do with rape allegations. But you do. Read your own quote above saying "I actually do have a problem with all the guns, death, murder, violence and rape "glorified" in entertainment. I believe it's a concerted effort to de-sensitize the population towards acts of violence."

But then you whine like a bitch when you can't watch a marathon of The Walking Dead which has guns, death, murder and violence in every episode. And a couple of rapes thrown in.

You're the one who can't separate fact from fiction.

And as far as James Deen, maybe he's the biggest scumbag in the world, but he hasn't been charged with anything. This could be publicity, anger, psychotic behavior, whatever. But until I see a police report it's just more he said/she said garbage with everyone jumping in the fray because we've become prisoners of the moment with social media. MUST. REACT. IMMEDIATELY. Must take sides. Must condemn or exonerate. No middle ground anymore and many times that's where the truth lies.

I've shot amateur BDSM scenes before. Safe words and kill fees were always in place and always respected, so much so that if I saw a girl at her limit but not stopping the scene, I would stop the shoot and check if everything was kosher and if she still wanted to go on. Not a big deal to edit later.

And on that note I find it amazing in the "porn doesn't sell" category that I still make sales on Clips4Sale (my only point of sales) even though I haven't updated or marketed in any way in two years. I have my minimum payout set for $1,000 and received my third check of the year last month. There is money in porn. You just have to work it like any other job.

There's almost no chance that I'll be back into adult in the future. I still come to GFY for motivation.

There's some solid characters on this site and I picked up great information that still puts money in my pockets today.

But it's "talk out of both sides of my mouth" guys like Porn Nerd that motivate me to take it to the next level. And as long as you think I'm an asshole, then it just validates I'm doing things right. Thank you for that!

Zombies don't count. They're like a fucking video game. Science fiction and fantasy like LOTR doesn't count either. I'm talking about all the real crime shows and investigative dramas like CSI, Law & Order et al.

I like Star Wars lightsaber battles too so I must be talking out of both sides of my mouth, right? Jesus what a fucking idiot. Dude go fuck a Thai Ladyboy and STFU.

It's not that simple. Imagine this crazy scenario....

Let's say you're finishing up at a urinal as I'm exiting a stall in an otherwise empty public restroom at the Hard Rock during Internext and as you see me exiting the stall you decide that you want to teach me a lesson for being rude to you on the boards so you push me back into the stall and butt rape me. And that all of this happened about an hour or so after I let some Grooby girl fuck me up the ass in front of a bunch of people.

I would not go to the police because I would assume that you'd be able to provide witnesses who saw me get fucked by a tranny as well as inflammatory board posts suggesting that it is not beyond the realm of reason that I'd make something like that up about you. Not only would it be highly unlikely that the charges would stick but the whole process would be embarrassing, there would likely be a bunch of annoying paperwork, and it would be just one big time-consuming logistical nightmare. There's no way in hell I'd go to the police in that situation.

It would also make little sense for me to tell anyone in the industry. You have a good reputation, I'm relatively unknown, and it's unlikely that anyone would believe me except for maybe Kelli but I likely wouldn't tell her because I wouldn't want her to write about my traumatic experience on LIB. :1orglaugh

What I'd do is figure out the best way to lay my vengeance upon you and bide my time until the time was right. Then do it.

I think that's what's happening here.

With all the girls who have made similar allegations and considering how quickly so many businesses have severed ties with JD, I'd be shocked if Stoya did not know of AT LEAST one girl who would follow her lead in coming forward.

The reason people go to the police is because they hope the person who wronged them will be punished and if someone for whatever the reason feels as if the legal system will not be helpful in administering an appropriate level of punishment, their best option is to figure out a way to do it themselves. In this case it's cold calculated social media fueled career wrecking vengeance. Doing it right before going on holiday likely made the process less painful and the likelihood that her site will make more money in the process is sweet icing on the cake. Especially when considering how much money would have been spent and how much time would have been wasted in attempting to 'do the right thing' by going the legal route.

Personally, I'd be pretty impressed if she planned things in such way. Kinda like a super sexy female pornstar version of Edmond Dantès. Very hot. :thumbsup

So wait - are you saying that because I watch The Walking Dead I should condone rape? Or are you saying because I am against rape I should NOT watch a fictional show about zombies? I'm confused...

:helpme

100% with you on your no mean no comments. I'll openly admit I'd very happily be the driver of the bandwagon in crucifying him if the allegations prove to be true.... but I think what has happened just goes to show how frighteningly powerful social media can be, and just how quickly sheeple can form a defacto stance on an incident with zero evidence being supplied to support the claim. I'm in no way trying to belittle the claim, or those of the girls that have since come out and if they are true then I hope he gets punished for his crimes, but I just find it bizarre, to say the least, that a rape claim is tweeted, social justice has him crucified within hours, other girls come forward with their stories, the snowball of condemnation gets larger, tons of speculation and other fuckery abound.... yet, those closest to the incident decide to keep content featuring the guy they are publicly crucifying front and center. For artistic integrity? Bizarre.

To everyone saying no means no chew on this.

What about in a rapey sex scenario where no or stop really means yes more.

Just sayn this whole story leaves a lot of stuff open for peneration. Pun intended.

Rape is one thing but going a little past a safe word Is douchey and totally wrong ... but rape? I dunno about that even if the legal inerpretion would state otherwise. We all know laws have been wrong in the past so...

There should still be a safe word that trumps even that scenario. Say the safe word = STOP NOW. She can say "no" and "stop" and he could (conceivably, under your argument) keep going as part of the fantasy. But once that safe word is uttered it's over. Stop now.

</argument>

Even if i don't know what happened, i tend to not trust feminists.

@jimmycooper

That is the modern problem with reputations. They can be attacked via social media and other means that ignore all of the protections afforded to an accused person by our legal system. There is a reason crimes require proof beyond a reasonable doubt, not having proof doesn't make it ok to destroy someone's reputation... The same way doxing people or making false CP allegations is not an appropriate way to handle losing a flame war on a porn board.

I have found ways to monetize the problem, by providing legally permissible methods of reputation management for several of my clients.... But I much preferred the world before that industry became necessary and would very gladly give up that part of my income if there were a way to put that genie back in the bottle.

I do not know James deen, and I do not know stoya. Given the way this has played out, I can tell you I have no intention of hiring either of them. I'll never know the truth of what happened between them, but I already know the truth of what has transpired publicly in the aftermath, and I have no desire to associate my business with either of them as a result. That doesn't mean I think anyone did or didn't commit a crime... It means I don't need to find out any of it to know that there are other people I can hire instead. In my view, going to the police represents a very different mindset than going to Twitter.

I do wonder if this result will cause performers to be unwilling to date other performers. It seems far too risky to allow anyone to be in a position to ruin your entire career with a pair of tweets. That LIB hate blog has attempted to attack my reputation more than once (for absurd 'reasons' I outlined earlier in this thread) but I can easily brush that off based on what people already know about me and already know about LIB and its owner. Thankfully I never dated anyone involved with LIB... or their misguided attempts would be more consuming of my time.

That is why you have a SAFE WORD!

I hear what you are saying and agree up to a point, but for the sake of clarity... this is not about woman's rights, lib, feminism, etc., this is about human rights and no means no whatever way you slice it. You and I may not agree on that and that is fine. Good luck on the day when that becomes an issue for you if you shoot that sort of content. Maybe you will see my point then and not try and paint me anymore as some sort of knee jerk captain save-a-ho. I have come to my way of thinking after many years of working deep in the grey area and coming to my own conclusions so I don't expect you to agree or understand.

I agree that it smells very fishy and like a fucked up publicity stunt and character assassination and that not just women but humans regardless of sex, sexuality, nationality, race, whatever are capable of such evil and diabolical shit. But I also believe that Deen, or any other person in this biz has a much higher bar of expectation to respect boundaries, cherish respect of sexuality, and set a standard that others will perceive only as a measure of integrity... because the average person is conditioned to believe people in this biz are exactly like what Deen is being accused of, whether it is true or not.

I was interviewed by the Guardian here is my quote

Porn industry groups cut ties to star James Deen amid sexual assault claims | US news | The Guardian

Dan Leal, a veteran actor and producer, said: ?I believe in the American judicial system. If there is any truth to the allegations, that is the best and proper way to handle them. Twitter is a social network.?

Good work. Kudos for not letting "the media" paint the industry by numbers on this. :thumbsup

:2 cents::thumbsup

Where is the "like" button, when you need it ? :helpme

Exactly. Well done Dan

It's just feminist bullshit to use the word rape, with everything that it involves, to speak about something that is not exactly what people understand with this word.
Rape is just a title that forgets the facts.

Two More James Deen Accusers Tell All: ?There Was So Much Blood? - The Daily Beast

Porn stars Amber Rayne and Kora Peters tell The Daily Beast?s Aurora Snow about how Deen violated them on set, bringing the total number of on the record accusers to five.

?I didn?t know calling him a bitch was a trigger word. I had no idea. I?d never worked with him before.?

Kora Peters was my girlfriend for three years (and still a good friend). She is out of the country now but will be back soon. But I remember her stories about JD very well. Not a good guy at all.

Kayden Kross Explains Why James Deen Is Currently Featured on Her and Stoya&#39;s Porn Site

While we made the decision back then not to hire him going forward, we can?t undo the fact that he is featured in some of the scenes that Stoya directed during their relationship. We also can?t undo the fact that some of our licensors have shot James in their own projects. He is an able and popular performer. Stoya considered not releasing any of the content that she owned that featured James, but it was content that, if taken away from the whole, would have harmed the project that is her directorial debut.

took a few threads but i see your game now. never again will i sink into your vortex. clown.

:)

Stoya still has not changed her join page and is wasting much of this traffic. Monthly conversions have to be horrible with the way she presents it. Someone please help her as nothing annoys me more than wasted opportunity. All of this interest in watching James Deen simulate rape will not last forever.

I have read some of the comments from the potato heads on mainstream news sites and they are using that scene and the scene description to say that James Deen does in fact rape women. So a scriped video directed by a female and and that is featured on a site owned by the "victim" is being used as proof he rapes. It just does not any nuttier than that but of course it is not surprising since most people are dumb as a box of rocks.

If any of these things happened on set where is the director? I'd cattle prod a dude if that happened.
Ds

You obviously run a good set then. Not everyone does. When the MALE talent is more famous than anyone else on the shoot (a major anomaly) crew can get intimidated and not step in when needed.