Absolutely. We live in a fascist country (America) in the true definition of the word, not Naziism. Fascism is the merging of government and corporate interests to the point where it's seamless, and that is what we have right now in the US. So yes, trade unbalance is the root of this evil. Germany (for example) has resisted trade inequities and their manufacturing base has remained strong for decades.

And Donald Trump is no Ross Perot. Just sayin'. :)

so trump really has no plan to reverse offshoring?

damn that's going to suck for all the people who vote for him hoping he would do as he keeps promising.

Agreed. Now look at who controls the Governments.

If it were only rice fine.

The guys assembling widgets used to be your customers. Now it's becoming the guys at Boeing, Airbus and those putting men into space.

Spot on. :thumbsup

You're the guy who isn't building his business 10 fold, because he's not getting a $20 a week tax break. So what would you do that's better than employ a policeman or teacher with your $20 a week?

Yes there is corruption, but that's the fault of the political model we have.

To rid the system of corruption we have to vote for those who don't have vested interests, don't need money or a job after they leave politics. Trump fills those boxes. The problem he will have after elected is all the other politicians who bought power with corporate money.

Absolutely. Once you drop your socialist dogma you make sense.

US corporations rely on the West for sales. We need to tell them that if they want to make abroad and sell in the West, then transfer profits to a tax haven. They will be closed from selling in the West.

Those companies are running the World for the benefit of the 1%.

most western brands would go under in such a scenario...

for example an Iphone would cost say $2000 to be made in the USA and that indian phone is just 4$...

how much tax do you think you could impose on the indian company to protect apple, without hurting trade agreements with the world? 200% tax on 4$ is like 8$...so the india phone would be 12$ instead of 4$ but US goods abroad would probably be met with the %200 tax too...not probably but definitely...

you can protect domestic production only at the cost of screwing over your own exports...

Only tax goods from countries that have a huge trade deficit with a Western Country. The tax would be at a level where it's still possible to sell, just not as profitable. If you think a $4 phone arrive at the docks, then shops at $4. You're not in any form of business that requires costing products.

Shop markups are between 100-200%.

The EU-US would have no problem trading with each other. Countries like India would have to bow down or lose a lot their economy.

The problem with doing nothing is eventually, so much is made abroad a country is forced to go into debt to buy the products it needs. Whoops, too late.

Still nice to see you start to understand how business has to work.

capital is now global not just USA...if you make it less profitable to invest in US companies producing for pennies in china, then they will not invest <-----huge problem

open up a US domestic production and see how much serious capital you get...


investors want $$$$$...they want it NOW...or they go elsewhere...

You're missing my point. By taxing goods that come into the West, there's nowhere better to invest.

The two global markets for most are EU and US. China has a trade surplus with everyone, as do most Third world Countries. So who invests in what, if they can't sell to the EU and US cheap goods?

The only thing stopping this is the will of the people to vote for politicians who will stand up to big business. At the moment the suppliers are ruling the customers.

Man this thread turned unreadable real quick. :(

Yes the investors will be thrilled that their sweat shop profit is now taxed more...buyers will be thrilled to pay more for the same shit and it will also spurt sales...not LOL

this is basic basic stuff paul...its not really up for debate, you touch their profits they will drop you like the plague...capital is international it is not in the USA any more <---concentrate on this

Great Charts !
They show a reduced trade deficit based on lower economic activity and a much lower price for imported oil and a strengthening dollar compared to other currencies that we import from..

The economic ignorance and misinformation is breathtaking, isn't it?

I really wish that kids were taught economics, both theory and history, both Austrian as well as Keynesian, in high school... It's basic to human interaction, and the lack of understanding is just depressing.


:Oh crap





.

Coward Serb idiots will be the death of this place.

politics is esoteric enough for GFY, [USA] economics blows the lid off that. esp when that convo is dominated by the serb and markham.

actually the death of this place will be american idiots...I only posted my opinion and you guys answered back :1orglaugh

"serb idiots" LOL has nothing to do with your inability to stay the fuck out of commenting on stuff you do not want to be commented back...

it also in no way shape of form stops you from reading what you really are interested in...

I get it, you know your shit boat is sinking and who ever rubs your face in the truth is an idiot...

its not even a serious thread...trump promises jobs will come back to the USA :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

only a fucking moron would not see the humor :2 cents:

this would make sense if America was not #1.

but we are.

yeah you are doing just fine :1orglaugh

Congrats on the self awareness.
Admiting you're a moron is the first step towards healing.

Better than fucking Serbia, broski.

at @ #64 you think you're better.


:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh



:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh
:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh
:1orglaugh

I never said serbia was better did I o'desperado?

I said it is very amusing you think that jobs will reshore to the USA...dynamo and his 0.3% "reversal" LOL

The appeal is they are living in fanasty land and their talking heads have sold them on the non sense that welfare programs are the reason for the debt hence Turing it into a political issue..

Of course it's not the trillions of dollars spent on the NSA spying and military. Nope we need to spend more money on that..

Rah,Rah liberals bad.. Republicans have started electing absolute morons into office andtheir dimwitted nonsense keeps getting worse.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh
slippery serb, don't try and slip out now, you stated unequivocally that USA capitalism would never ever let jobs come back, but in fact, jobs have returned, including an entire industry. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh


:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I kinda feel this is the same debate as the insurance premiums getting lowered. Trumps response was to eliminate state boundaries on who can bid to offer health insurance. By creating this competition it would drive costs down. Just like in any bidding war. Sure makes sense to me.... yet, everyone in the news and sweaty guy mocked him and said what's the plan though. That is the plan, now he hires the lawyers to make it maw and right up the paperwork.

Same thing with bringing jobs back. His plan is if USA provideo x service, country receiving said service is going to pay for it where as before they were not, or paYing very little. More money coming in, grows the nation financially. If us company wants to move plants out of country, they get taxed to sell to us. Same idea as vat just not so greedy with a moral undertone to grow the us and keep the jobs here. Pretty simple stuff really in concept. Hire the attorneys to make the laws and draw up the paperwork.

You have to admit that alot of laws, foreign and domestic, are written to line the pockets of a few. It is trumps biggest campaign message and why he is cresting this movement you now see with the people.

0.3% came back...the other 99.7% did not...your point was so small I must have missed it ..."entire industries returning" LOL come on man 0.3 is 0.3 :2 cents:

any way you look at it, raising taxes on something making it less profitable to produce abroad, or making it less profitable domestically by forcing them to hire expensive labor, has never positively affected sales...the price is passed on to the consumer...investors want $$$$ or they go elsewhere...

basic basic stuff...

even if you get them to produce in the USA, the money you make from tax foreign produced goods will be lost on the inevitable reduction of sales due to the inevitable rise in price of the product or service in question...

2 factor problem:
1) more expensive to produce
2) less sales due to increased price of product

shit I wish I was a genius like superbonzo, both Austrian as well as Keynesian, I would know how these 2 factors play no role at all and would be able to explain it LOL

I bet you can explain how it will stimulate growth? no?

Right, you fled Serbia just when your war torn country needed you most, I forgot.
My apologies.

The #1 issue with all mankind is this: trying to figure out how to have it both ways.
You can't have a rich upper class, a rich middle class and a rich poorer class, now can you? Someone's gotta be on the bottom rung of the ladder. Yet we stupid humans keep on a-tryin'. :)

Look at the year the imports slowed down. 2008.

Then go back and study the figures and trend from 1970.

Take out the money borrowed every year. Compare manufacturing and look at trends.

http://ablog.typepad.com/.a/6a00e554...f26191d970c-pi

Money spent inside a country circulates inside the economy. A person working in the NSA pays US taxes, buys products in the US and keeps people employed. All this goes to keeping the economy buoyant.

A laptop made in China sends money to China. Employs s person working in the China pays Chinese taxes, buys products in China and keeps Chinese people employed.

All this goes to keeping the Chinese economy buoyant.

$100 in benefits is better spent than $100 sent to China. Because it's less likely that guy will be buying a computer made in China.

Employing that unemployed guy in the US to make computers will make Apple Shares tumble for a while. Until the money in wages in the US rises and newly employed workers start buying their own computers. It will see the deficit tumble and tax revenues rise.

Yes people will be buying less, and making it last longer. Continue down this road and eventually all your customers will suffer.

The 1% will hate it, as Crusithicko point outs, their income will fall. Comical watch him switch sides.

well if you have a lot of poor people they will inevitably take your jobs wont they?...the very system that exploits needs to be fed constantly, and when it gets too big it will start to feed off of your own high paying jobs...then the low paying jobs...it needs to grow...

I was chatting with a neighbor today. She and her husband were living in the UK. He's a high-skilled mechanical engineer working in design and R & D. They were living in the UK where the company had the main manufacturing plant.

It was moved to Czech and they came with it. Then the manufacturing plant was moved China. Now she hears design and R & D are going to be done in China and they're not looking for many Europeans to move there.

He's looking for a job. This is a man with a skill that 10 years ago gave him the freedom to move anywhere in the world. They're not worried he can still get a job anywhere. But their children won't be so fortunate if we keep on this route.

Yes someone has to be on the bottom of the ladder, but they have to have enough money to go shopping. Otherwise, the middle gets hit, which is what's happening now. Think of 10% of your customers unable to afford your products, and there being no growth in the market.

Money flows up. The biggest company in the US is Walmart. Where will that be if more people can afford to shop there?

Or fewer?

with ever decreasing profit margins businesses will be forced to do this more and more...

basic principles in economy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_efficiency

Pareto efficiency, or Pareto optimality, is a state of allocation of resources in which it is impossible to make any one individual better off without making at least one individual worse off.

Please God...let Paul walk away from these threads so that they can be interesting again...

jtfc dyna mo, yo! how do you always manage to stay abreast of all the hot new acronyms? haha! Jesus-titty-fucking-Christ! I'd never even heard of the phrase let alone the acronym. Good stuff!:1orglaugh

No, I want to see more pointless graphs and hear more stories of out of work neighbors. Please?

</sarcasm>

:cool-smil

I have no idea what he is typing. I (just like almost everyone on GFY) just keep scrolling past his walls of pointless text until I hit a reply from someone who ISN'T Paul.

So offer an alternative view other than "I don't want to pay more for goods so an American can get a job."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_efficiency

As this points out the growth of the Third World has been at the expense of the First Wold.

Do you think jobs leaving your marketplace is pointless?

So the migration of our customer base to free porn is pointless. :1orglaugh

I will make it simple. Your customers are disappearing and debt is rising but not because of government spending.

He doesn't, and he can't but it makes a good sound bite.

I agree with this. Everything is global. If I can buy something for 30% less then I do. If I can make a higher return, I invest. It is not that we are anti american, we are just global. The high school grad in Tennessee does not have a ton of options in the manufacturing world but he can do service or construction and do well.

Eventually we will have a global standard of living and yes that will suck for the people who were much higher and be cool for those who were lower. It is just the way it works.

Millions of ordinary Americans support Donald Trump. Here's why | Thomas Frank | Opinion | The Guardian

not a good analysis as paul markham's, but worth a read.

I love how according to Paul Markham, Trump has to solve every single issue known to mankind and has to show us exactly how it's done! But Paul never mentions or does the same thing with any other candidate.

Then Paul says Trump doesn't have any plans. Does he not watch Trump speeches or go to Trump's website? Of course not! He takes 10 second media soundbites and goes from there

Out of the 5 candidates left, Trump is BY FAR the best choice to be President. It's not even close. It's like having Michael Jordan and four fat, D3 basketball players up there

Amazing how you can call Trump a racist, xenophone, Hitler, cancer, stupid, etc but when he strikes back...."oh the humanity! How could he!" :1orglaugh

Money flows up is common sense but Republicans live in Bazaro world and believe money flows down. They can't grasp the concept due to their own greed that 500 people spending $20 is more money than 1 guy spending $5k. They all believe they will be that one guy who gets to spend $5k rather than being one of the 500 spending $20.

Even though 99% of them are in that group spending $20 they convince themselves that they are special and will eventually be the guy spending $5k so they vote people into office which actually makes it harder for them to be that guy spending $5k.

What the fuck are you talking about?

More like 1 guy spending $10,000,000 and 500 spending $20

heres the thing about money flowing down...most of it does not...

when a rich guy buys a $10 million house, those 10mil are locked there for the next 100 years for example...

a rich guy can buy a shirt...he can buy 100 shirts...but he will not buy 1.000.000 shirts...he will buy a car or 10 cars but not 1000 cars like 1000 people would...so what does he do with the bulk of his money?

invest...long term mostly...long term investments do not trickle down...

most of the money the rich make is not spent but invested...this money trickles up not down in some tax heaven...

I love how they coined the term "horse and sparrow" :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh if you feed the horse enough oats he will shit some out so the sparrow can eat

this is literally the boldest name for a theory made by a rich guy that I have ever heard, "the poor can eat our shit" LOL

Consider the following 2 scenarios, which show the difference between "investing" and "spending":

some sophisticated person gets a $100k tax refund... figures: "oh cool, lets build a nice house with it".... takes $100k, borrows $400k... spends $500k to build a house... so with a $100k tax refund.... $500k is getting injected into the US economy + 100s of jobs get created along with it... US now has a nice house built, which will be enjoyed by someone in the US for generations...

vs

some less sophisticated person gets a $100 refund... he buys some bullshit widget made in China... benefit to US economy = practically zero... US jobs created = practically zero... widget breaks in 3 months, he throws it away... China is $100 richer, US has nothing to show for it...


which scenario sounds more appealing to you?