the tesla overall reliability rating is easily available for you to look up yourself. if you were actually in the market for one, and researching a purchase, you would know this and not need someone to bring you up to speed on it.

i have driven a Tesla S in fact, and we were researching the model 3 for purchase.

you would also know the warranty is yet unproven due to the low age of the S, again, available online.

Tesla themselves acknowledged the charging station wait times in their quarterly/annual report, again, a simple search on your part, if you were truly interested in purchasing a Tesla, is simple to do.

Tesla doesn't make proprietary batteries, they make lithium-ion batteries, open source doesn't apply to the batteries. they're Panasonic currently

Tesla also acknowledged their own "hubris" in their quarterly that waxed over their own delays and production issues, again, easily found online from multiple sources

ALL the major marques jumping into EV race, again, easily found by a simple search.

you don't realize those are preorders for a concept car. nor have you updated yourself to the huge problems Tesla faces in filling those orders.

it's clear you and several others are very emotional about Tesla, i get that. But it's also clear you are not informed, you're not a serious buyer of either the product or the stock, you're simply emotional. cars do that to some people. heck, i've been there.

i have driven more than one and have spent the last month trying to justify jumping in on a model 3 and going long on teslamotors. and i agree no one is buying a $100,000 luxury car for reliability, for the most part. i assure you everyone that buys a $35,000 sedan most certainly is.

what grade are you in?

Mark prince...again showing how he judges first, cares about facts second.

Mo, on the other hand, a fact based individual. Both left of center, but only 1 is intellectually curious.

in my eyes no are nothing more than a fucking retarded asshole from this point, with this thread you proven this not just for me but to the entire community here.

Go Fuck Yourself, niemand :2 cents: :321GFY :pimp :thumbsup

you think i give a fuck that you're emotional over my view of a car and all you can do is name call and spew insults.



get well soon.

feel free to refute any of the following facts i posted

which Tesla do you own? how much tsla stock are you holding?

it's nutty how people that don't even have an interest in the matter get so emotional about a car manufacturer that they need to lash out, name call, finger point and assume they speak for everyone simply because someone posted a few facts about a car manufacturer.


:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

If you have a Tesla S, turn it into a submarine:


Hold down the Tesla logo that?s located towards the top-center of the screen for ~4 seconds and let go. An access code prompt will come up.
Type in ?007? and then navigate to the settings for ?Suspension? (only available with Model S vehicles outfitted with the Air Suspension package of course).
Enjoy! And mess around with the ?depth? (you can go all the way down to 20,000 leagues below, if you wish).

Falling for the ?up to? schtick... the left-wing trendymobile

A car in the same way that this is an airplane



8. Leave it sitting and it loses range
9. There's an earth rape for the rare metals needed for the battery pak's

Where's the trendy eco outrage.

This subsidized junk is like having a jalopy with a pinhole in the gas tank

.

other things for clueless tesla fanboys who mirror petulant apple children...

lithium ion batteries decay in performance over time. its the nature of their existence. just a matter of time that your 200 mile range falls to 100 mile range...Replacing those huge battery packs is gonna be too expensive for the middle class budget. a lot of model 3's are gonna turn to paperweights real fast when their owners cant afford to replace the battery, or the motor for that matter. Consider the 20 year time horizon? ouch. these cars sound good for a 3 year lease, then get out, or else.

& 300,000 more customers at charging stations, which take an hour & up to charge per car? Thats a looming catastrophe that could be a brand killer. not sure why thats a nonissue to fanboys. how stupid will you look in your tesla when your friends, in their gas car, cross the country a full day faster because they are not sitting in a dozen charging stations for hours? hey, at least you can say your carbon footprint was delivered out of the coal plant, instead of the gas engine...

:2 cents:

lithium ion batteries prices have fallen 40% since 2010 and are still falling, you can get a chevy volt battery for around $2000 as a dealer, its not a tesla battery but still...in 10 years time a li-ion testla battery may well be in the 1-2K$ range...

charging stations can be privatized...once there was only one gasoline company, today there are 1000-s...as soon as demand appears so will supply, it will be easy to install vending machine type chargers on parkings...or like a parking meter thing...

charging stations may well become obsolete if batteries hit around 1000$ everybody will have a full spare battery at home and design a dock type battery port...

Tesla is the #1 rated car in the world in terms of customer satisfaction according to consumer reports. My Tesla is amazing and makes every other car feel like a piece of shit after driving it. There is absolutely no wait at super chargers, I don't know what you are talking about. Elon Musk is a transcendent genius and you don't know what you are talking about. The huge pre-orders for the Model 3 is because every who has had any exposure to the Model S knows the car is kick ass. Basically everyone I know wants my car, now with the more affordable Model 3 everyone can have it.

I think the trend will be to move away from oil. So i think electric cars will be the norm in 20 years. Another player just entered the fray as well, and is building a massive plant in the USA.

I don't see Tesla going anywhere, especially because he is plugged into that government tit money. Spacex and Tesla will be monsters. Spacex will probably start mining asteroids and building in space in a couple decades as well.

i'm going by the research i've dug up, asked questions, et al.

for instance, and this is not in offense to you, your car, or your experience with your car, elon musk, or teslamotors.

but consumer reports ranks it as one of the worst of the worst used cars to buy:

Used Cars to Avoid Buying - Tesla Model S Years to Avoid
2012-2013, 2015
here is consumer reports reporting on the Tesla reliability issues:

Tesla Reliability Doesn't Match Its High Performance - Consumer Reports




the fact is the huge pre-orders for the model 3 are due to media coverage.

i haven't denigrated elon musk in any way whatsoever, i don't know what a transendant genius is but your view of him hasn't been stepped on by me or this thread.

i can tell you for a fact the charging station in my community in Huntington Beach Ca is packed constantly and the Tesla forum is loaded with threads about wait times as well as a google search shows the issue
https://www.google.com/search?q=long... rome&ie=UTF-8

again, i'm not slighting you, the product, the manufacturer or the ceo, i simply shared my results of research a purchase and investment.

The Cult of Apple.
The Cult of Tesla.

You are making a prediction based on what you see as facts. I understand how others not agreeing with your conclusions can be viewed as emotional but it is also possible that you are viewing it in that light.
The problems you list are likely to get better or worse. If they have orders, they will increase production to keep up. Most companies can do this. They should become more reliable as they will get more data on what fails early and can act to correct it. I am guessing that most people will charge at home. The idea of taking my Tesla cross country in the face of its weakest attribute seems a bit uninformed.

The battery one seems a bit bigger. Is it not possible that they will simply switch ot a new battery if something better comes out? I would think that is not a big deal. But time will tell.
The drive train is much less complicated. Again time will show if the wheels start fallling off but so far so good.

Hey Dynamo - Tesla has been in business for 8 years. When, based on your expert opinion, will they fail?

you raise some good points. it could go either way, you're right. i worded the title in a bold way. Tesla is a bold company with huge goals. disrupting the car bidness is huge. everything from the way cars are legally sold in each state to how their powered and more. my concern is that the gestalt of all the challenges is too much for anyone to overcome. upsetting the car industry while creating brand new industries like Lithium mining and needing the entire supply to match production quotas, all hinging on a brainiac entrepreneur, who btw, is also "nanomanaging" a rocket science business with goals of upsetting that business model also, is a lot to accomplish. too much i'm afraid.

<7 years.

The expert has spoken.

you're emotional over a product you don't even own nor do you plan to own it. I came across some startling realizations and presented them in a straight-forward respectful thread and been called names and had snarky comments made while maintaining my respectful nature.

it doesn't take an elon musk to figure that out. you should simply choose to walk away.

billions in taxpayer subsidies is being 'in business'?

I'm not. You made a bunch of claims, but haven't proven any.

Why are you speaking for me again? Are you off your meds? I have always said I wanted one, and almost bought one a couple of years ago but went for a house instead, which I'm sure you will agree is a better investment. I still want a Tesla but will wait and see how the Model 3's are. Do you mind very much good sir, if I am careful when it comes to spending my own money? Thank you.

Maybe...

Actually, no you didn't. You said a bunch of things, but offered no proof, no links, no quotes.


To me, Elon Musk is impressing me by doing some really impressive things like inventing Paypal, building electric cars, flying rockets into orbit (then landing themselves on robot boats none the less). You on the other hand are just some guy trolling GFY 24/7 and making wild claims without backup.

Why should anyone let you get away with posting false information and or making wild unsubstantiated claims?

All love and passion aside, why not post some links to backup your claims so we can continue the discussion on a level playing field?

If you can't, then with all due respect, I will trust what I read in PopSci and all the car mags, the dealership / gallery where I can see the cars myself, and especially all the youtube videos of all the crazy-happy owners.

Peace!

mark, if you can't follow the thread and see the links i've already posted, you're even more emotional than you think i think you are. you need to settle down, go back, and read the thread. if you don't like my conclusions, go do the footwork like i've done and make your own conclusions.

what does that loan have to do with the subsidies I mentioned?

I couldn't give a fuck about any subsidies or loans tbh, just makes me laugh when you jump in wearing your fanboy glasses-o-myopia doing your usual team-sports ra-ra'ing :1orglaugh (but trump isn't allowed any of those startup loans right, because that makes him a non-businessman.. right?)

I might even be wrong, all I did was a quick google search and saw a figure of $2.391b bandied around Three companies, $4.9 billion in government support - LA Times

Have luck!

Dynamo good buddy,

In your original post, you made 7 claims.

Between your post and my first reply, you posted a total of zero links to backup any of your claims. Instead, you posted a link about spiking lithium prices, which has nothing to do with anything you said. If you don't believe me, go back and read the tread yourself.

I has asked you to prove or provide links to any of your claims which you did not do until AFTER I brought it up.

But when you did, you only included 1 issue with 2 links about the same thing. Your links included reliability issues from Consumer Reports (fine! Good!). But your other link is to a Google map where you claim long waits for charging. This may be true too, but it is not necessarily an indication of a nation-wide problem. There are plenty of super charging stations in Montreal and even eastern Canada with no wait times.

There are also other problems: You are ignoring the fact that Tesla has already announced an expansion of their supercharging network Tesla plans massive expansion of supercharger network and you are ignoring the fact that you can actually charge a Tesla anywhere, at any charging station or at home. AND, you are ignoring the fact that Tesla's can be charged at other Super-charging stations too.

EDIT: Here's another report: Tesla Supercharger map fills in more U.S. gaps for electric-car charging

So before you try to drop your condescending attitude on me old buddy, all I am asking you to do is to backup all of your claims with links and facts. You are the one making the claim, so its up to you to back up your claims, not me to fact-check them for you. Also, I'm not the one emotional here. I like the car and like the company, even though I don't drive a Tesla. I like them because of what I have read and what I have learned. I like them enough to help you out in case I think you're making a goof with your facts. If you don't want my help, no problem. But I think you owe it to yourself and everyone here to backup your claims about Tesla or any other company you hate. It will show people that you know your stuff instead of make you look like you just talk out of your ass.

Peace and tranquility be with you my friend.

settle down mark. you seem to think i need to prove something to you. that's because you miss the entire point of this thread.


i'm not here to prove to you that obstacles exist between now and success for Tesla. the topic is about the fact those obstacles do exist. you want to deny them because in your unicorn and rainbow world, elon musk and Tesla don't have obstacles in their way, only electric highways and solar sails.

that's not reality, you're asking me to handhold you through reality, that's not my job nor the point of my thread. the fact is those 7 issues are merely 7 of many hurdles, obstacles, and road blocks that Tesla will have to overcome to achieve their goals. you can contribute to discussing those or not. but i'm not going to get sucked into another one of your tit for tat nitpicky prove to you 2+2=4 roundabouts.

ding ding ding. I was a big fan of Elon until I discovered how much they fucking whore from the government.

holy crap.

Take it easy, now... don't get yourself all upset.

You DO have something to prove, thats MY point. :) Not only to me, but to everyone reading this thread. You made a proclamation. You said "heads up: Tesla will fail.". Then you provided 7 reasons why, without any proof whatsoever.

Your "expert" opinion is that Tesla will fail. Shouldn't I or anyone else get to ask what makes you an Expert and why stockholders shouldn't unload right now?

The point of any thread is usually the title. If "Tesla will fail" is not your point, then what is your point?



Your rate of "proof" so far is barely 14.2%. Why not prove the rest and bring this up to 100% ?

Well sorry dude, but yeah of course I want them to succeed. The guy makes killer products that I as a consumer, really want to have but that is beside the point. You made a claim, and I'm asking you for proof. Why are you being so defensive?


Here's your problem Dynamo. You have created an opinion, and then somehow turned your opinion into "fact" in your own mind. Your opinion says they have lots of obstacles to overcome, and you have made up your mind that they are doomed to fail.Right?

Here's an idea for you. You like to quote scientific text here on GFY, and you seem to care enough about clean energy to install solar panels on your roof as you once claimed. So instead of throwing in the towel for Tesla, why not be constructive? Why not start a constructive conversation about what those problems you claim they have might be, and use your scientific noggin to discuss possible solutions?


There's no roundabout. I asked you several times now to post links that prop-up your opinion. So far I've seen only 1.

Okey-dokey?

you seem to think having an opinion on something means having to prove it to you.

that's funny. not funny hahah funny.

what's weird about ********** is he'd rather argue about proving me wrong rather than actually participate in dialogue about those easily googled issues that Tesla must overcome.

it's too bad for him.

yeah, i think Tesla has a long way to go and a short time to get there, for people interested in that journey, i posted 7 angles to discuss about it, mark chooses to try and bicker like a girlfriend upset over my view of a superhero movie.

i've often wondered how Elon Musk manages his time being CEO of Tesla, Product architect of Tesla, CEO of Space X, and CTO of Space X.

maybe MWF at Tesla, mornings do CEO stuff, afternoon product architecting, and TThSa running Space X, afternoon for CEO and morning doing CTO?

Either way, morals aside, he's a genius businessman and marketer.

8 years sounds reasonable. I am on record here as saying Apple would be gone in 5. That was last year.

I've eaten an apple in 5, it's very possible.

Meanwhile, scaling up production on a concept car from 0 to 400000 in 2 years that requires the entire planets lithium supply is an entirely different matter.

They don't even have a working prototype, combined with the issues I listed, combined with a part time ceo/product architect.

So to clarify: Your "heads up: Tesla will fail." OP is your Opinion, not an educated prediction. Got it.

You still have not posted any links to base your opinion on. So with that in mind, I'll stick to my original reply and say I that, in my opinion, that you are wrong on everything. Based on their track record I think the company will continue to do very well and produce more and more amazing products for years to come.

All I did was ask you for links to the source of your information or opinions. I asked you easily 5 times now and you still can't come up with them. Why not?

But dynamo, these are YOUR opinions! :) In post #8 you said you had done your research. Why not share your research with us if it exists to further solidify your opinion?


I'm not bickering with you ol' chum (and I'm not picking on you or calling you names either). I'm only asking, for the 6th time now, to kindly, please, show me links to research articles that backup the claims you are making. How hard can that be?

There are alternatives to Lithium-ion today such as Aluminium-ion, but who says as advancements in technologies come around, that any factory including the gigafactory couldn't adapt?

Regardless, I think its cool that people like Musk are taking such big gambles towards changing how we use energy. In my opinion, the world needs more people like Musk, and less armchair old-farts that do nothing.

Live long and Prosper.

settle down mark. you aren't grasping the point of the thread. i've told you what it is and you're reaction to that was to nitpick the title.

the thread is a thought-provoking topic on the hurdles Tesla needs to overcome to succeed. you want to make it about me needing to prove to you why i have an opinion on something that doesn't match your's. that's silly.

thought-provoking. this isn't about me, or me being wrong, you can try and make it that way, or you can think like elon musk thinks and discuss the issues that stand in the way of success.

"I have OCD on product-related issues, I always see what's ... wrong. Would you want that? When I see a car or a rocket or spacecraft, I only see what's wrong."

I never see what's right."

-elon musk

Take it easy, Dynao. I can see you are getting extremely upset for no reason.

Your OP is thought provoking. My first thought was "where is he getting his info from?".

No links, no proof, no basis.

Have some nice tits - you will feel better.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVMKzByCEAA7H5c.jpg

i feel fine, mark, you're clearly the one disquieted by this thread not coddling you.

you know what would have been cool, mark?

if you had posted *7 reasons why Tesla will succeed* instead of trying to make this a me v you someone's right and someone's wrong arguement while you sit back cross armed and demand i prove to you my opinion to the point where you agree with me, which is entirely beside the point and this is teh GFY, that shit doesn't happen here, GFYers don't change their minds. i certainly didn't start this thread to change anybody's mind, i know better.

Tesla's Model 3 Will Fail In India - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA)

At the Model 3 launch, Tesla CEO Elon Musk announced the car will also be sold in India, which will be a huge EV market going forward.

re: EV competition

Tesla Model 3 Faces Tough Competition in These 8 Slick EVs

Tesla production and manufacturing problems:


"The continuing evidence of execution problems has left lingering doubts over the company as it prepares for the all-important introduction of the Model 3, which is due for launch late next year."

https://www.google.com/search?q=tesl...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Chanos got China right. Now he's betting against Elon Musk - Oct. 8, 2015


While he called Musk's Tesla (TSLA) cars a "great product," Chanos worries the electric car maker will always be a boutique car maker and won't be able to transform into a mass market one.
"To sell millions of cars -- which is where the stock is valued -- they've got a long way to go," Chanos said.
He also knocked SolarCity (SCTY), the renewable energy company Musk co-founded.
"It's really nothing more than a consumer finance company -- and it's not a particularly good one," Chanos said.

mark prince puts a lot of effort into being ignorant.

:2 cents: