50 REVERSED CHARGEBACKS!

At first I was pleasantlty surprised at how many friendly fraud chargeback threats are thwarted with a promise to go to collections and be reported on their credit.

Fuck, I got two $100 chargebacks today and I am PISSED. The fuckers went in, downloaded everything, then turned around and CB'd. So how would I dispute this and 'fight back'?

Have either subscribed with you before? Check their history. Do you have online disputes setup with your merchant account or do you get paper disputes by mail?

I can help with this...email me raja((at))chargebackhelp.com

No, this is through CCBill. Never joined before, either one, but will now be blacklisted according to CCBill. Still, two in one days hurts. LOL

Email sent.

If you're with CCbill then you're shit out of luck.

We are fighting CB pretty sucessfully on our own MID. Got a template and a script set up that just enters their info, with prooof of their signup IP, website login IP and some screenshots of their location - basically proof that the card was not stolen, like most of them claim - "transaction unrecognized" my ass. (then .zip it up and send to our aquirer)

about 70% cases we win

That won't be much of a help. They just try catch the upcoming CBs because they have a deal with a few banks and before the CB happens you have a chance to refund that transation - they see it and send you a warning, so basically you escape the VISA penalty fee for a CB, but still have to refund.

Such companies dont have many banks in their loop, so you catch very few CBs. Not worth bothering IMO.

You need to check your second chargebacks. I think you will find it stunning how many of those wins then come back as a second chargeback further dinging your account $25 for each one. Mastercard and Visa calls a second chargeback differently but never fear, they are the same thing and your gateway people LOVE that second Fee they collect.

That's racist man...

That's interesting... could you tell us how that works?

Do billers share personal/cc- info of people that made a cb? Is it a database accesible for all 3rd party billers? Do they implement these infos in their systems?

And will they also be not able to buy mainstream anymore after a cb on an adult site?
Losing all creditcard credibility after 1 cb sounds unbelievably...

FIDDY chargebacking motherfuckers!

Yeah I caught that after looking into it more. With my own merch it would definitely make sense but with CCBill it's a waste of time.

LOL
African-American-listed?

I don't like doing business with 3rd party payment processors because their fees are a lot more than what is available in the open market to us. When you process large volumes of transactions you can negotiate better terms.

The customer credit card BIN numbers are submitted directly into our PCI-DSS servers. I know who they are and how they came by VPN, Proxy or their public IP -- we scrub our own transactions dynamically in real time now. I get my responses relayed directly from the processor's banks -- not some line of shit that I can't verify days later. My algorithm when adhered to is working for us. I don't get sorry ass reasons for chargebacks -- nor do I accept them.

If you have ever made a chargeback (demanded a refund) on your debit card or credit card with your issuing bank you would know what is involved. If a 3rd party billing processors are willing to reverse charge transactions on a customer's complaint to protect their aggregated merchant accounts -- that is not my problem.

I have been noticing a lot of chargeback activity on prepaid cards lately. (this year) I used to allow them because even though they rarely rebill they also rarely charge back, so they improve your ratios - not so much anymore.

I have been blocking cloud hosting IP's VPN's and proxies for years but lately I use maxmind minifraud to check proxy score, no known proxies get through and a number of IP's I wouldn't previously have suspected are also blocked.

Nothing stops customers from being complete assholes and charging back "because they can" though.

Trust me -- do not rely only on mini fraud -- it is reactive not heuristic. We have used it for years and still do -- but only as a ''cog in the wheel.''

Oh wow....:Oh crap

Barry,

You sound like you have really got a grasp on this stuff which is refreshing.. You mention 3ds however i have found it to be a nightmare w/ most customers bailing at the friction point of not understanding it or getting a pw wrong.. How do you deal with this?

With your hard scrub which is really good from the advertiser/merchant side, how do you balance the conversion drop on the affiliate side when there seems to be alot of competition w/in the webcam vertical?

Would love to hear more of your input as you sound like you truly know what you are talking about.

Also if anyone has insight...

Fraud Alerts.... one of the major things i have been trying to reduce chargeback wise is when billing a US customer in a different region is that it initiates a fraud alert to the credit card holder after the approved transaction and they contact the customer w/ a fraud alert.

then the customers claim they never bought anything in XYZ region and the chargeback process begins almost immediately with cancelled card, etc.

How do you guys handle minimizing this?

Unfortunately it only works for 3rd party billers that are connected to certain databases. Furthermore it works for all of our websites (several thousands).

What happens to the good buyer who charged back because he didn't see the cross sale box and was pissed he was getting two monthly charges instead of one? ... maybe even 3 monthly charges.

It is a trade off ...

Our customers seem to be adapting and we do lose some because of the 3ds issues -- but those customers that refuse to verify? A large number of them -- when they are new customers are your chargebacks waiting to happen -- the friendly frauds (kids with their stolen credit cards belonging to their parents?) get caught -- they cannot authenticate their parent's card -- BOOM! they are stopped cold.


I let other cam sites have the questionable customers and share the chargeback risk with their models and affiliates... LOL. Models that get ripped off are a bigger problem than affiliates really. Affiliates are not asked to jam a dildo in their ass and moan for 20 minutes and never see the money they were promised.

Many old/existing customers like to use VPN accounts for adult websites. They have privacy issues for a lot of reasons. I have a rule -- if you are anyone using a VPN the first time you must 3ds verify -- no exceptions. Come back with your public IP and we will cut you some slack. If a customer asks about the high barrier of 3ds I instruct our customer service people to explain that the 3ds verification is for the customer's own protection -- he verifies with his bank that he is using his own card by verifying the password -- no one is committing Internet credit card fraud with his credit card and ruining his credit standing.

Some merchants ask me to 3ds my credit cards -- I comply -- it is a legitimate charge I am making. The real problem is some of the jack-ass banks that do not support 3ds -- we have workarounds that are fair but restrictive. Interesting to note: Many customers will submit 2 or 3 cards that are in the same name until one of their cards issuing bank's participates in 3ds and maintains a verification server -- VISA and MC need to compel 3ds compliance IMHO -- verification online is in their interest too -- at a minimum the banks need to write off a lot of costs contesting fraud, absorbing losses and the expense of issuing new credit cards in the event of a real chargeback -- the bank immediately closes your card account and issues a new card in a new account number.

Most "chargebacks" reported to adult merchants are processor reversals not hard chargebacks from a bank.

The reversal may be from the bank for reasons other than a customer's complaint -- a stolen card, a decline because the customer's credit limit is exceeded, a content decline (adult website) or other non customer contested issue. If the bank feels that your card has been compromised for any reason *including the unauthorized use by a family member* the bank takes your card and shreds it, closed that card account, and you wait for the new card to come in the mail, meantime;
you have problems with any reoccurring payments legitimately scheduled on that card *all your internet subscriptions will not post and charge*
I know this personally. With a number of banks -- I have been victim of both POS terminal (swiped) and Internet (to card present) frauds -- none of the frauds were a 3ds transaction that I made(<period>).

Use minifraud from maxmind to check the location of the BIN -- make sure that the person charging the transaction is not on a VPN/Proxy in the same country as the card. This is why the USA has the most fraud (on the surface);

1. the USA has the most stolen cards and
2. the majority of datacenters offering VPN/Proxy services are located in the USA.

They are out to fuck you and if you get fucked -- it is really your fault in most cases.

One thought I want to add on unreported friendly fraud:

I can only speculate how many times there is unauthorized use of a credit card that is settled internally within the family or between friends.

The charge gets paid to the cardholder by the unauthorized person using the card.

Read: the kid pays his mom or dad back and swears he will never do that again. Maybe, his parent threatens to report it to the police or some silly shit (it's a civil tort:0P).

So, you have a one time sales maybe ... More likely, the parent contacts the merchant or the processor's contact toll-free number ... We prefer that the customer contact us we have global toll free service. We may only refund the amount that is exclusive of our ''hard'' loses -- the model share. We and the affiliate eat the rest. Less than $100 is just not worth all the trouble and jeopardizing our long-term business and financial relationships.

How much can a cam customer chargeback? With a paysite it's anywhere between $29.95 and $99.95, or a maximum of five months rebills I think. So the maximum CB loss is not huge. But can a customer rack up 5K in cam charges then CB that high of an amount, for example?

If so then I can understand your security measures. :)

I have one new customer that has spent (transacted) over $4,000 in the past 2 months -- the time span for a chargeback is 0 - 90 days plus the arbitration time making the window about 120 days or 6 months from the first transaction. This is an extreme example -- a relatively rare occurrence.

More normal might be a new customer that has transacted $200 - $600 in the same chargeback window.

Money amounts don't really matter usually -- the accounting is the percentage of transactions that is the factor i.e.; 1/100 transactions = 1%

Gotcha. But if a customer chargebacked $600 I would be 6x times as pissed. LOL But again, paysites are different.

Sounds like you have your CB shit together. VERY impressive! :thumbsup

I started a war on chargebacks 3 months ago. Our staff is fully participating and we are covering each others backs on this issue. We have spent $1000s of dollars in administrative and development time -- the fraud battle never ends. You can only work on fraud prevention -- after the fact you are always butt-hurt -- you lost -- and should learn a lesson from it -- or you will get fucked over again and again.

VISA Net will not be the only alternative in the future -- I think the whole credit card system has a limited future. But for the next 10 years these bankcard associations will be able to dominate online commerce and dictate the rules.

A merchant is not liable for normal consumer or hacker/carder fraud for a 3ds approved transaction -- the issuing bank eats the loss when it occurs -- those are the rules. I am just playin' ball :2 cents:

BTW, regarding surfers and their stupidity.

Do you guys have a lot of bounced/thrown into spam "join" emails? Most surfers use some throwaway account at free email providers like yahoo/hotmail etc, and these cocksuckers send our "join" email straight to the spam folder. Stupid surfers can't see the email with all the join info and the hell starts.

Our servers/IPs are not in spamhaus db, so i dont know why the fuck our mails would get sent into spam.

Any ideas?

Your domain SPF records could be formatted incorrectly.

I switched to Google business email for $5 a month using my domain, never went direct to spam since.

I dont give a shit if a kid joined via moms card. It's their word against mine. And I produce all the evidence - the join IP that matches the customers address, the use of content/members area with the same IP.

Most of these cases are won by us, because they file a CB under "unauthorized transaction". But I prove that it's actually been authorized from the customer's house, and their bank usually doesn't want to take chances with arbitration etc.

Could you please get into more details how that works? What is SPF records and how setting up Google business email helps? Membership related email gets sent from gmail account?

don't do that... guy is as clueless as the remember lmpts

SPF is a text record in your DNS records.
It authorizes your SMTP domains (authorized mail server senders).

https://support.google.com/a/answer/33786?hl=en
https://support.google.com/a/answer/..._topic=2759192

Just get rid of the tubes... if you walked into your local gas station and on your left was a hot girl giving away free snicker bars... would you not take one?

But on your right there was an even hotter girl selling two snicker bars for the price of one.

What would you do? 8 out of 10 of you would take the free shit and run.

So... should I jerk off to a hot alt girl tonight? Yeah let's do that. Ok...

Google search... "brunette alt girl getting fucked hard".
Dear surfer... I found 4378 videos for you to watch. Would you like the video to be 5 minutes long or 47 minutes long???

OR

Google search... "brunette alt girl getting fucked hard".
Dear surfer... I found 4378 SITES that have 45 second trailer videos of "brunette alt girl getting fucked hard".

If it were the latter case... the surfer will find an alt girl he likes... and buy a membership so that he can BLAST a good one to a girl that turns him on. And the site owners would get paid.

Do the math... how many people are jerking off on a tube right now for free? 100k plus I bet! Think if we were getting 100k sales an hour divided up between all of us site owners????

Getting girls, shooting them, paying them, processing the content, running the site. How long will we be able to sustain ourselves? This phenomenon is called "porno warming"... it's going to become unsustainable.

Now to the topic... when I started this in 2002... CCBIll said, we handle everything. Customer service, chargebacks, user management, banks, billing, affiliate management and payouts... you just produce your content and run your site.

So that's what we did. We should not even have to be worried about some chargebacks... we should have so many sales that a few chargeback here and there are nothing to us.

But now... today... I check my stats and hope that I did not get a surge of 4 chargebacks in one day from some douche bag that charged back 4 rebills.

What happened?

Get back to the basics... we should! Star out titties and pussies, create galleries that get them interested but don't give it away, create trailers that tease and entice... NOT FULFILL!

Coke has been around for ever... do you see them giving away free 24 packs at walmart?

WTF happened...

I apologize for my common sense :)

Billers do not share data between them as that is not PCI compliant. So, just because a chargeback was made and that customer was added to a 3rd party processors database, that does not mean that they cannot shop elsewhere. You guys that are using 3rd party processors for billing do not have any control or clue what is going on with those customers as far as scrubbing, retention, cancellations, fighting chargebacks etc.. Unless you have your own MIDs and use a gateway and call center such as what NETbilling and some other gateways provide, you will be in the dark. Those customers do not belong to you, they belong to the IPSP.

Questions?

Mitch

So WTF should we do ?

Could you please give more detail on why it's not a good idea?

We talking about emails? Host your domains with a host that has a clue about hosting. I.e. way3
I have no clue what spf is but it is correct dns and rdns settings that affect emails.

Regarding chargebacks and all that shit... read the post directly above yours.

Mitch,
True;
* PCI-DSS data cannot be shared

• Credit Card Numbers
• Addresses
• Personal Identifying transactional information.

However,
https://www.iovation.com/

We do not use this but the concept is interesting

Fraud prevention should start long before that customer ever reaches a billing server.

If you are operating a website and do not pre-scrub your transacting customers at all you will have problems. Count on it :2 cents:

We dont have problems with CBs, we are fighting every one with great success.

The problems are with members emails to their yahoo/hotmail services that send it straight to spam folder.

How to fix this? We are with RealityCheck (pretty solid host). Our domains or IPs are not listed in spamhaus database.

How else do free email services detect that email is a spam? Keyword filters? Something else?

It's either a bad IP, bad DNS, or bad rDNS setting. I don't know the technical answer beyond that. But I moved from so many hosts for that very reason, email problems. You name it, I had it. Way3 fixed my issue, the owner, and it's been the best host ever and I've never had an email problem since.