It can be worse, in the eighties often the camera panned to the guy's face. Wankers cumming looking at an ugly male face. :1orglaugh

You were buying gay films. :1orglaugh

Why would you limit the companies to who are not involved in tubes? As an industry matures, the strongest survive and the weak begin to die, obviously. The remaining companies begin to be a little more corporate and have their hands in everything as few companies begin to take over. Almost all big companies have their hands in other brands/including tubes. Half of them, thats the reason theyre still alive to begin with. It bought them the profit/time in order to learn what sells in todays market and continue to be successful. So basically youre saying, what small sites who can't afford or weren't smart enough to get involved in tube sites are still producing content at a high cost? Obviously that number will be limited. It has no reflection on the current state of paysites

Blacked owners are involved in a large tube, however it doesn't mean they could not have reached the success without it, it just helped them reach the level they are at, perhaps at a faster pace. Anybody is free to use tubes to their advantage. It is just more obvious to tube owners what sells and what profit they can make off their sites so theyre more willing to spend, they also have less "risk" because they have the traffic already and aren't as scared to spend the money. They were also the ones smart enough and had the budget in order to get involved with them. The people without the budget weren't typically the smartest, given how lucrative this industry was.

Not being involved in tubes isn't an excuse to be a failure.

Tubes are the highest source of traffic/sales, so why would they not be involved?

Strange question is all

I am right now, producing in 2016 for some of todays top pornstars. I have went from driving traffic to being an owner and worrying about ROI and dealing with producers to producing myself in todays market. So yes im familiar with all sides, which most are not. Its very easy to have an opinion that stems from one area of expertise but until you've really been on all sides, and in todays market as well, you really dont have a full grasp. IMO

Because tubes monetize differently, what it makes sense for a tube to spend on is very different from what it makes sense for a pay site to spend on. Aside from all the factors you mentioned, which I agree with, the most important factor is the business model is different.

The topic is not would it be awesome to decide to fail (only with super excuses), but what should pay sites do. All I'm saying is pay sites should not spend like their business model is different from what it is.

I suspect Tubes pay very little for traffic to their sites, this saves them a huge chunk other paysites have to payout. The Tubes run at a profit anyway.

However, it doesn't take a huge budget to produce kick ass porn. It takes a lot of porn production skill and sites that are willing to pay for that skill are few and far between. Which takes us back to Tube Sites.

I could produce kick ass porn, along with many others, Buttman, Ben Dover, Ed Powers, etc. Will Tubes pay us the money we want or get some lame dick who works cheap to do it on a tight budget?

You talk as if great porn just falls off a shelf. Which made me think you weren't in the sharp end of producing it.

You got it all wrong (as usual).

• Investing in new technologies can yield great returns or tax losses. No balls no glory.
• The second to wost thing that can happen to a business model is commiditization even worse is the zero sum game of free.

So there is;

1. the niche market that will pay for a unique value proposition,
2. the middle market of value buyers (*Netflix or Amazon prime),
3. the low market 100% advertised subsidized.

Whether or not the content is legit or copyright infringing will not make you any money this instant (today). Youtube is proof of this business model. It's not going away.

Trying to convert the low market to a higher market is going to be an uphill struggle with a lousy ROMI (return on marketing investment).

Shap! Look what you started, a monster size thread! I'm just in here for sport, hope you are doing great!

My comments do not apply to you Sir. You are in the top 1% of talented shooters on the planet. :)

AmeliaG can speak for herself but to expand on what I think she was getting at:

There are tubes and large companies who finance paysite production. They have exclusive agreements with the mega-tubes. Therefore the tubes are spending more than a paysite not financed by a tube would spend. I know what an expensive, professional shoot costs and most small paysites doing 10 joins a day or less cannot compete on that level. So what we are left with is a handful of mega-paysites being financed by mega-tubes to keep the whole daisy chain of porn going. This will continue for years to come, I think, while smaller paysites will have to re-adjust their marketing and expectations because you simply cannot 'compete' with a Blacked or DDF if they are being financed by million dollar tubes. :)

If people keep bumping this thread it will never die. Wait!

I assumed this was a business thread. :Oh crap

It isn't?

I read this thread to the end of page 5 and I couldn't take it any longer.

There is power in numbers. If we could get a coalition of producers and site owners together, maybe we would be able to come up with enough resources to push the tubes and file lockers out.

I know I can't do it, a lawsuit would chew me up and spit me out. That's probably the same for most of us. We need a "Trump type figure" to lead this and make it happen. Someone who kicks the door in, and goes for the juggler.

There is no magic potion in my opinion. It's been said a million times on this board. If it's free... sales go to shit. Most people would say that compared to the past, that sales are shit.

You cannot walk into wal mart and walk out with a new fishing pole. You have to pay for it. If everything can be locked up in our tours and members areas again... the people will pay for it. They JUST WOULD.

THERE IS NO MAGIC POTION. The free content has to stop.

I believe a focus should be on finding a Trump type figure to lead this cause, gather followers and recourses, and take on the free content sites, tubes, and file lockers.

Maybe even the billing companies could invest in this. They have big money, and I am sure that if the reign of free porn would end... that the billing companies would make larger fortunes than before since there are more "potential buyers" and more devices to access porn from than ever before.

Let me guess though, the billing companies are probably in bed with the tube sites and file locker rev share programs...

Would anyone be interested in trying to start something like this up?

I don't know about that but thank you :thumbsup
Now just let me know where to send you the check :winkwink:

Mike South? :)

Put it towards the cost of production. Lighting and makeup can get expensive. :thumbsup

Sure... who ever can do it. I could do it, I just need the backing and Capitol.

Anyone know why the billing companies would not want to take a stand? Or support such a cause?

I've still got it :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

A site as good as theirs, will reach the entire audience if its good enough, it will just take a bit longer to reach such audience, i mean, unless you are lacking the marketing expertise. Given the profit margin of top produced sites, it still should not be a problem to have budgets similar to what they (companies who also own a tube) started with. Just because they spend (lets say 5-7k a scene), doesn't mean you can't match their quality for a bit less and then up it to what they spend once you launch. You may have to spend that much longer finding the perfect locations at a bit of a discount, use a few connections, search a little longer for cheaper marketing help, editors, etc. You do not need to pay riley reid 10k for 2 scenes, this is only what they do once they have the money. You'd be surprised how much fat these big companies have, its because they've been around for ages and they don't care enough to trim it all because they make more than enough to support it. A new company starting in 2016 could do things at a discount as long as they match quality, they'll be fine. Theres no excuse for not producing the same quality they do, like i mentioned before, i know of many companies spending high budgets on scenes, enough to produce the same quality as the companies who also own tubes and their product is nowhere as good, that has nothing to do with them owning tubes. Besides that your producers do not have the talent and you choose to stick with whats comfortable and make excuses for why you cannot reach that level. Instead of realizing you just do not have the eye or drive.

With that said, i do not think them owning tubes should make you shoot for less cost, because you will never be able to compete. Dont suggest tubes are dying because you cannot afford all the tools they all use to their advantage. Tubes are a tool and they purchase them. The thread is about the state of paysites. People who do not own tubes can still utilize said tubes.

It is still very easy to achieve a product in the top 5 percent (in terms of product quality), as the standard within porn is very low, if you produce a good quality product in the top 5 percent, utilizing tubes, affiliates, etc should be more than enough to launch you to the top. Gamma finally checked all the boxes on the requirements sheet when they created Girlsway, they got top talent, a producer with an eye, good story/intro, high quality lighting and production, graphic content (they tried launching softcore products before), and now they have a product that launched to the top. It really isn't as hard as people make it out to be. People just either dont know the simple checklist or people with no eye thinking theyre checking them off.

Gamma own any big tubes? (im sure they own something but im not sure if any major ones). If not, they would be an example.

Show me a site done that well that has failed, it hasn't happened unless a very very clear lack of marketing experience. Until high quality sites start failing, there is no problem with paysites. Ive asked this so many times and people have yet to show me one. Exceptions to people who try to duplicate their product in order to expand, for example, xart creates a second site with an identical style, the market isn't that big, you can't just duplicate things to the T, same locations, same talent, same producer, and expect another big paysite

Technology is only good when the rank and file can't adopt it.

Trying to convert the low market to the higher market is going to be an uphill struggle with a lousy ROMI (return on product investment). All the marketing in the world can't make shit shine. Youtube and Pornhub are proof of that. Along with the top webcam sites.

Incidentally when will your new one be launched?

There are top sites, employing top producers. see any link? :winkwink:





Tubes with their own paysites are winning because they pay little to market the product and to affiliates. Those with special deals are the sites with great content bringing traffic to the tubes and making them stay.

Even sites with 100 sign ups a day couldn't afford decent content. By the time all the expenses and profit's removed there was little left to afford $1,000 for a decent solo girl scene. I lost count of the times someone said to me

Site owner "I want content like yours where the girls get into it."

Me "I shoot two of them a day, give me $2,000 for it."

Site owner "I can't afford that, I'll pay you $1,500 for 5 scenes"

Me "I can't shoot that because girls can't do it 5 times and I can earn $1,000 for one scene anyway."

So they ended up with a members area that people got tired of after a month and retention sucked.

That's my marketing skills coming out there. :1orglaugh

The time for a coalition of producers and site owners. Was 1998-2000. They were the years when site owners should have gone into partnership with top producers and created more great sites.

As for stopping free porn. Can't be done. We have to sell more than flesh these days.

https://icannwiki.com/.cam

Contract is signed.
Premium domain sales mid Fall 2016
Open registration at your registrar this Winter.
ACwebconnecting Holding, BV is who I work for we own 15 subsidiaries.

This is a registry -- not a website :2 cents:

porn.cam is for (pre) sale :)

I have a lot of 2-6 (letter) dictionary word.cam names for presale as well as numbered and short random number domains for presale too.

I agree with everything you are saying about what pay sites can do to produce quality content. I assume when you say "your" you mean that generically and not me personally.

Regarding tubes, please do not hear me saying what other people have as common complaints about tubes or how tubes can be used as marketing tools. None of that is relevant to this thread topic, so none of that was remotely my point.

Simply advertising an in-house pay site is not at all the only way a tube would monetize that type of content.

So, for example, while Jay Allen might be able to do Game of Thrones level cinematography, if his business model is not to sell shows to HBO, he isn't going to want to spend like that is how he is monetizing. Is that more clear?

Someone who gets it ^^

If he knew how to do it - he wouldn't be shopping around for already established projects that make money.

Selling his paysite back then was the best business decision of his life. Had he not, the paysite and the affiliate program would have been closed by now.

Selling GayTube.com was very dumb. I used to be a constant ad spot buyer. When the new owners took over they immediately jacked up the ad spot prices by 2-3 times. And still i continued to buy. I have no idea how much he sold it for, but the money he had been losing on undervalued ad spots and the potential money lost after the sale is very significant.


Right on.

Xvid Autograph looks great and it sure is a great way to identify and ban the thief on your site.

But I doubt it would provide sufficient evidence to convict a pirate. Charge maybe. Convict? Not likely.. which is probably the reason why it's not that widely used.

Just because the illegally uploaded videos carry a name of someone does not mean the same person uploaded the scenes to the file locker. Same goes for IP address - IP address is not a person. Anyone can sit at my computer / laptop / tablet and upload my videos with my name in them.. so the evidence needed would be linking the UPLOADS to a physical person (e.g. having a witness or catching the uploader on a camera etc.).

BTW, the idea of injecting user names into the footage is not new, I heard about that idea many years ago. Still I like it cause I can easily ban people if I find them uploading the content somewhere else.

Just as I have said in Shap's other never ending thread... Make new and interesting content or die..case closed:thumbsup:thumbsup

bump :upsidedow

Do any of those sites have porn movies on them?

If not you're wrong.

That was the highest level of their skills. A market with such a low entry level will always by under threat from idiots who can't do anything but fuck customers.

So you buy traffic. So stop telling people how to do anything but drive traffic. Shows how misleading your stats image was. It didn't contain the cost of buying traffic.

Maybe the deal was more about Gay Tube than Twistys, or not on for just Twistys. I see you business sense is low as well.

But you said my idea was crap. Just because you can't do it.

The problem with what you suggest is it will amount to nothing if the content goes onto Tubes. I see lot of great content on Pornhub...case closed:thumbsup:thumbsup.

I have said your idea was crap in another thread, where I did say that "behind the scenes" porn clips would not work because most crew ( cameramen, sound men,props guys, set decorators,make up girls, costumers, continuity people, drivers, grips, gaffer, lighting guys ...Yada yada) would NOT want to be seen in some porn shoot...

..elsewhere and including here my mantra is the same... Make good and original content and you will do OK...

Otherwise I do not know what the F. are you talking about :thumbsup

Woohooo Business Thread of the Year award. I'll take that ;)

Nicely done, congrats :thumbsup

Congratz.

They should have a new one - Thread that generates the most Bullshit from Paul Markham.

You would win that one as well.

:thumbsup

Well done Shap.

:winkwink:

What the fuck does paul markham know?