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-   Fucking Around & Business Discussion (https://gfy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=26)
-   -   PaySites Have To Change Before It's Too Late. Here Are Some Ideas... (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1206094)

Paul Markham 07-22-2016 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 21049225)
You got it all wrong (as usual).
  • Investing in new technologies can yield great returns or tax losses. No balls no glory.
  • The second to wost thing that can happen to a business model is commiditization even worse is the zero sum game of free.
So there is;
  1. the niche market that will pay for a unique value proposition,
  2. the middle market of value buyers (*Netflix or Amazon prime),
  3. the low market 100% advertised subsidized.
Whether or not the content is legit or copyright infringing will not make you any money this instant (today). Youtube is proof of this business model. It's not going away.

Trying to convert the low market to a higher market is going to be an uphill struggle with a lousy ROMI (return on marketing investment).
Technology is only good when the rank and file can't adopt it.

Trying to convert the low market to the higher market is going to be an uphill struggle with a lousy ROMI (return on product investment). All the marketing in the world can't make shit shine. Youtube and Pornhub are proof of that. Along with the top webcam sites.

Incidentally when will your new one be launched?

Paul Markham 07-22-2016 01:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 21049462)
My comments do not apply to you Sir. You are in the top 1% of talented shooters on the planet. :)
There are top sites, employing top producers. see any link? :winkwink:





Quote:
There are tubes and large companies who finance paysite production. They have exclusive agreements with the mega-tubes. Therefore the tubes are spending more than a paysite not financed by a tube would spend. I know what an expensive, professional shoot costs and most small paysites doing 10 joins a day or less cannot compete on that level. So what we are left with is a handful of mega-paysites being financed by mega-tubes to keep the whole daisy chain of porn going. This will continue for years to come, I think, while smaller paysites will have to re-adjust their marketing and expectations because you simply cannot 'compete' with a Blacked or DDF if they are being financed by million dollar tubes. :)
Tubes with their own paysites are winning because they pay little to market the product and to affiliates. Those with special deals are the sites with great content bringing traffic to the tubes and making them stay.

Even sites with 100 sign ups a day couldn't afford decent content. By the time all the expenses and profit's removed there was little left to afford $1,000 for a decent solo girl scene. I lost count of the times someone said to me

Site owner "I want content like yours where the girls get into it."

Me "I shoot two of them a day, give me $2,000 for it."

Site owner "I can't afford that, I'll pay you $1,500 for 5 scenes"

Me "I can't shoot that because girls can't do it 5 times and I can earn $1,000 for one scene anyway."

So they ended up with a members area that people got tired of after a month and retention sucked.

That's my marketing skills coming out there. :1orglaugh

Paul Markham 07-22-2016 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil-flash (Post 21050086)
I read this thread to the end of page 5 and I couldn't take it any longer.

There is power in numbers. If we could get a coalition of producers and site owners together,
The time for a coalition of producers and site owners. Was 1998-2000. They were the years when site owners should have gone into partnership with top producers and created more great sites.

As for stopping free porn. Can't be done. We have to sell more than flesh these days.

Barry-xlovecam 07-22-2016 04:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 21051529)


Incidentally when will your new one be launched?
https://icannwiki.com/.cam

Contract is signed.
Premium domain sales mid Fall 2016
Open registration at your registrar this Winter.
ACwebconnecting Holding, BV is who I work for we own 15 subsidiaries.

This is a registry -- not a website :2 cents:

porn.cam is for (pre) sale :)

I have a lot of 2-6 (letter) dictionary word.cam names for presale as well as numbered and short random number domains for presale too.

AmeliaG 07-22-2016 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonymous (Post 21051385)
A site as good as theirs, will reach the entire audience if its good enough, it will just take a bit longer to reach such audience, i mean, unless you are lacking the marketing expertise. Given the profit margin of top produced sites, it still should not be a problem to have budgets similar to what they (companies who also own a tube) started with. Just because they spend (lets say 5-7k a scene), doesn't mean you can't match their quality for a bit less and then up it to what they spend once you launch. You may have to spend that much longer finding the perfect locations at a bit of a discount, use a few connections, search a little longer for cheaper marketing help, editors, etc. You do not need to pay riley reid 10k for 2 scenes, this is only what they do once they have the money. You'd be surprised how much fat these big companies have, its because they've been around for ages and they don't care enough to trim it all because they make more than enough to support it. A new company starting in 2016 could do things at a discount as long as they match quality, they'll be fine. Theres no excuse for not producing the same quality they do, like i mentioned before, i know of many companies spending high budgets on scenes, enough to produce the same quality as the companies who also own tubes and their product is nowhere as good, that has nothing to do with them owning tubes. Besides that your producers do not have the talent and you choose to stick with whats comfortable and make excuses for why you cannot reach that level. Instead of realizing you just do not have the eye or drive.

With that said, i do not think them owning tubes should make you shoot for less cost, because you will never be able to compete. Dont suggest tubes are dying because you cannot afford all the tools they all use to their advantage. Tubes are a tool and they purchase them. The thread is about the state of paysites. People who do not own tubes can still utilize said tubes.


I agree with everything you are saying about what pay sites can do to produce quality content. I assume when you say "your" you mean that generically and not me personally.

Regarding tubes, please do not hear me saying what other people have as common complaints about tubes or how tubes can be used as marketing tools. None of that is relevant to this thread topic, so none of that was remotely my point.

Simply advertising an in-house pay site is not at all the only way a tube would monetize that type of content.

So, for example, while Jay Allen might be able to do Game of Thrones level cinematography, if his business model is not to sell shows to HBO, he isn't going to want to spend like that is how he is monetizing. Is that more clear?

Google Expert 11-25-2016 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff (Post 21014146)
That's right on. Shap I appreciate your threads, but why don't you show us a "from scratch" project with pictures and arrows and a description. I don't mean to offend, but talk is cheap. You made bank before tubes, odds are, you could not duplicate your success again.
Someone who gets it ^^

If he knew how to do it - he wouldn't be shopping around for already established projects that make money.

Selling his paysite back then was the best business decision of his life. Had he not, the paysite and the affiliate program would have been closed by now.

Selling GayTube.com was very dumb. I used to be a constant ad spot buyer. When the new owners took over they immediately jacked up the ad spot prices by 2-3 times. And still i continued to buy. I have no idea how much he sold it for, but the money he had been losing on undervalued ad spots and the potential money lost after the sale is very significant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladewire (Post 21013942)
3) Change billing but you don't know how.

4) Change something to evolve but you don't know what.

Maybe those of us not destroyed by tubes & still in business since '99 have a lot we do that we don't share. Wanna know why? Because tube owners will implement our strategies. Fuck that
Right on.

SpicyM 11-26-2016 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgraves (Post 21028108)
I'm not sure why they aren't marketing more aggressively in the porn community and when I first spoke with the owner he didn't mention that he already works with some large sites. One large site has been using it successfully so maybe the strategy is to not let surfers know there is a unique code attached to each video they download. For that reason I won't mention the site on here but it's a very well known site. I spoke with the own of the paysite and he said they are currently pursuing several lawsuits against thieves.
Xvid Autograph looks great and it sure is a great way to identify and ban the thief on your site.

But I doubt it would provide sufficient evidence to convict a pirate. Charge maybe. Convict? Not likely.. which is probably the reason why it's not that widely used.

Just because the illegally uploaded videos carry a name of someone does not mean the same person uploaded the scenes to the file locker. Same goes for IP address - IP address is not a person. Anyone can sit at my computer / laptop / tablet and upload my videos with my name in them.. so the evidence needed would be linking the UPLOADS to a physical person (e.g. having a witness or catching the uploader on a camera etc.).

BTW, the idea of injecting user names into the footage is not new, I heard about that idea many years ago. Still I like it cause I can easily ban people if I find them uploading the content somewhere else.

celandina 11-26-2016 10:56 AM
Just as I have said in Shap's other never ending thread... Make new and interesting content or die..case closed:thumbsup:thumbsup

SpicyM 11-28-2016 04:59 PM
bump :upsidedow

Paul Markham 11-29-2016 01:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shap (Post 21026170)
With Facebook,Instagram and snapchat even if porn went away today's youth has plenty to jerk off to. Porn isn't only down because of tubes. With social media you get so much more content of people you know and don't know.
Do any of those sites have porn movies on them?

If not you're wrong.

Paul Markham 11-29-2016 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladewire (Post 21035326)
It rings true to me. All the time people waste creating clickbait porn sites to divert traffic to malware, redirects, etc. such a waste
That was the highest level of their skills. A market with such a low entry level will always by under threat from idiots who can't do anything but fuck customers.

Paul Markham 11-29-2016 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Google Expert (Post 21330847)
Selling GayTube.com was very dumb. I used to be a constant ad spot buyer. When the new owners took over they immediately jacked up the ad spot prices by 2-3 times. And still i continued to buy. I have no idea how much he sold it for, but the money he had been losing on undervalued ad spots and the potential money lost after the sale is very significant.
So you buy traffic. So stop telling people how to do anything but drive traffic. Shows how misleading your stats image was. It didn't contain the cost of buying traffic.

Maybe the deal was more about Gay Tube than Twistys, or not on for just Twistys. I see you business sense is low as well.

Paul Markham 11-29-2016 01:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by celandina (Post 21333169)
Just as I have said in Shap's other never ending thread... Make new and interesting content or die..case closed:thumbsup:thumbsup
But you said my idea was crap. Just because you can't do it.

The problem with what you suggest is it will amount to nothing if the content goes onto Tubes. I see lot of great content on Pornhub...case closed:thumbsup:thumbsup.

celandina 11-29-2016 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 21338650)
But you said my idea was crap. Just because you can't do it.

The problem with what you suggest is it will amount to nothing if the content goes onto Tubes. I see lot of great content on Pornhub...case closed:thumbsup:thumbsup.
I have said your idea was crap in another thread, where I did say that "behind the scenes" porn clips would not work because most crew ( cameramen, sound men,props guys, set decorators,make up girls, costumers, continuity people, drivers, grips, gaffer, lighting guys ...Yada yada) would NOT want to be seen in some porn shoot...

..elsewhere and including here my mantra is the same... Make good and original content and you will do OK...

Otherwise I do not know what the F. are you talking about :thumbsup

Shap 02-17-2017 04:36 AM
Woohooo Business Thread of the Year award. I'll take that ;)

PornDiscounts-R 02-17-2017 04:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shap (Post 21551416)
Woohooo Business Thread of the Year award. I'll take that ;)
Nicely done, congrats :thumbsup

NewNick 02-17-2017 05:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shap (Post 21551416)
Woohooo Business Thread of the Year award. I'll take that ;)
Congratz.

They should have a new one - Thread that generates the most Bullshit from Paul Markham.

You would win that one as well.

:thumbsup

j3rkules 02-17-2017 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shap (Post 21551416)
Woohooo Business Thread of the Year award. I'll take that ;)
Well done Shap.

:winkwink:

JohnnyClips - BANNED FOR LIFE 02-17-2017 07:11 AM
What the fuck does paul markham know?


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