There has not been any wars during the Obama Administration. Only congress can declare war and it has not done so during the Obama Administration. Engaging a small number of troops is not a war by any measure.

Fact. That's what a clever broker does when the bonds being bought or sold are worth shit.

Think of shares as if they're money. The value of a $1 bill is worth $1 at the time of use. So if someone pulls billions, he can't "pull" anything. They're still worth billions.

If however someone is buying/selling $1 of unpayable debt @$1.50. There's a problem if someone says "We're selling $1 of unpayable debt @$1.50 and in reality, it's not worth shit. " There's a huge problem.

Look back to all the big market crashes to see how it works. East India Company, Daffodils, 1930s Crash. And there's more and more to show how it works.

Some played the market up till the final days, making billions. Some missed the get out day and lost billions.

The problem is if the West stops this casino gambling. All our GDPs go crashing. We no longer have enough industries in the Industrial World to pay for the services we demand.

What do you have? ABC told me blah blah blah? Borrowers that can't afford to pay? I use to co-own a mortgage brokerage so I do know a few things about that. If someone was getting a "no doc or stated income" loan it means they had a really high credit score otherwise they wouldn't even be offered it. And even then the term "no doc or stated income" is silly. These would generally be self-employed people who had to provide more documents than a W-2'ed person such as bank statements for 2-3 years, income tax returns etc, etc. Truth be told they were always the better borrower because they had flexibility in their income over a fixed income.

My God Paul you do NOT know American politics. Let me teach you.

Obama needed the house & Senate support to changes after the price gouging happened. At that point it was a Republican controlled Senate & House, aka congress.

The Republican congress wanted Obamacare to fail, they didn't give a shit about the American people (they still dont), so they refused to vote on bill after bill that came in to reform the pricing and cost of drugs. Pharma owns Republican congressmen.

It wasn't within Obama's power alone to control pricing and Republican congress allowed people to get fucked.

You're confusing the money market with the buying and selling of CDO's and or the bets for or against them. Because Soros collapsed the money market causing bank runs the banks couldn't service those CDO's.

Are you suggesting he should have left his money where it was and lost it?

Or, that the markets would never have collapsed because buying/selling those bonds was good business.

I agree that people like Soros have far too much influence on economies. This will tell you why.

http://www.statista.com/graphic/5/24...y-industry.jpg

http://www.rpsoft2000.com/consulting...01950-2009.jpg

The change, the second image shows, happened under both parties. Who do you think benefitted the most out the selling of American Jobs?

Those old enough will remember the American Dream of the 60/70s.

Read my last sentence again. I know he was blocked at all turns. The problem is not going to the voters spelling out what's happening. Or the voters too dumb to realise.

Most US politicians are owned. I now expect you to find a couple who are totally self-financed.

Even Soros's money would have been unable to service the CDO's. They were over priced. If he had left all his money in. The debt would have been lower. He would have been broke along with a few others. If there had been no run on the banks. The entire collapse would have come later and cost us far more.

I think you should study how these markets work.

A $ is only worth a $ if someone is willing to give you a $'s worth of value for it. So when people start selling a $ for $1.50 and the $ is only a piece of paper saying "I promise to pay the bearer a $". someone will eventually catch on that they're paying $1.50 for a piece of paper.

Soros's money wouldn't have stopped it.

Financial Crisis Cost Tops $22 Trillion, GAO Says

The markets were so over inflated a crash was inevitable. 200/2009. They couldn't keep selling debts that would never be paid on houses that were overpriced. The culture in the Banking industry at the time led to other stocks and shares being over priced. Especially stocks and shares in the Banks playing the markets.

Do more research. Because the next one is on it's way.

Right, I wish you well too -- unemployable one.

Just don't get it, do you ... Talented people with today's skills have todays good jobs. In twenty years there will be new job titles and only the able will have those jobs. And many people will still be whining ...

Lots of people are making money in the Western World and will be making money in the future -- because they know how to.

Paul don't wiggle out of your stance by doing a double take in your last sentence.

You blamed Obama for not lowering prices, I taught you how it's not in his control even though he tried with many bills congress refused to pass. You are wrong about Obama controlling drug prices, end of story no big deal.

Just as a point of clarity. Bill Clinton had nothing to do with creating the law that gave mortgages to people who couldn't afford them. That program had been around since the 70's and it had worked great for 20+ years. The law said that companies who gave out mortgages had to give a small number of mortgages to underqualified buyers. These were the subprime mortgages etc. It worked because the banks were careful with who they picked to give these mortgages to because if the person defaulted on it that bank (and likely that specific branch of the bank) would have to deal with it and it is a pain in the ass. So, they picked candidates carefully and had a very low default rate.

Clinton signed into a law a bill that deregulated the banks and allowed savings and loan style banks to sell investment products just like investment banks. Before this was not allowed to happen. Suddenly, the savings and loan banks realized they had something of real value, these mortgages, and investors wanted them so they started selling them like crazy. When they ran out, they wanted more so they used the law that allowed them to hand out subprime mortgages to hand out tons of them then turn around and resell them to others often within 48 hours of the papers being signed.

The seeds of the mortgage meltdown were planted during Bill Clinton's presidency.

Under Clinton's Housing and Urban Development (HUD) secretary, Andrew Cuomo, Community Reinvestment Act regulators gave banks higher ratings for home loans made in "credit-deprived" areas. Banks were effectively rewarded for throwing out sound underwriting standards and writing loans to those who were at high risk of defaulting. If banks didn't comply with these rules, regulators reined in their ability to expand lending and deposits.

These new HUD rules lowered down payments from the traditional 20 percent to 3 percent by 1995 and zero down-payments by 2000. What's more, in the Clinton push to issue home loans to lower income borrowers, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made a common practice to virtually end credit documentation, low credit scores were disregarded, and income and job history was also thrown aside. The phrase "subprime" became commonplace. What an understatement.

Next, the Clinton administration's rules ordered the taxpayer-backed Fannie and Freddie to expand their quotas of risky loans from 30 percent of portfolio to 50 percent as part of a big push to expand home ownership.

Fannie and Freddie were securitizing these home loans and offering 100 percent taxpayer guarantees of repayment. So now taxpayers were on the hook for these risky, low down-payment loans.

Tragically, when prices fell, lower-income folks who really could not afford these mortgages under normal credit standards, suffered massive foreclosures and personal bankruptcies. So many will never get credit again. It's a perfect example of liberals using government allegedly to help the poor, but the ultimate consequences were disastrous for them.

Additionally, ultra-easy money from the Fed also played a key role. Rates were held too low for too long in 2002-2005, which created asset price bubbles in housing, commodities, gold, oil, and elsewhere. When the Fed finally tightened, prices collapsed. So did mortgage collateral (homes) and mortgage bonds that depended on the collateral.

Many bond packages were written to please Fannie and Freddie, based on the fantastical idea that home prices would never fall. Fannie and Freddie, by the way, cost the taxpayers $187 billion.

Just to make this story worse, Senator Hillary Clinton and Senator Barack Obama voted to filibuster a Republican effort to roll back Fannie and Freddie. But on top of all this, while Hillary was propping up Fannie and Freddie, she was taking contributions from their foundations.

^^ redhat triggered meltdown complete ^^

Are you really this dumb? Democrat's "can't get elected". Umm Hello.. Bill Clinton won by a landslide. Obama won by a landslide.. Why? Because they were popular with the voters..

Al Gore won the popular vote. Hillary won the popular vote the only Democrat since the fucking 80's not to win the popular vote was Kerry. You literally have no fucking idea what dumb shit you are spewing.


Popular vote = the number of people voting meaning since the 80's Democrats have only lost the people's vote 1 fucking time. That means since the 80's Democrats have won the majority vote every damn election except 1. That's nearly 30 fucking years of win.. :error:error:error

Now lets look at what all 3 of these had in common. Gore, Kerry & Clinton. None of them were break always or really energized the people. They were just average compared to candidates like Bill Clinton or Obama. That is the reason they lost.

The DNC handed the election to Trump when they decided to fuck over Sanders who you guessed it "energized" the people. Sanders would have fucking curb stomped Trump. He was neck and neck with Hillary even with the DNC fucking him at every turn..

The only reason Trump is now the POTUS is because the DNC tried to push a unwanted candidate, not because they "couldn't win". They could've won but failed to realize how bad of a choice Hillary was. Trump didn't win because he was good, he won because Hillary was that bad..

You seriously have no clue about US politics.

I never said Clinton shared no blame in this. I was simply clarifying that Clinton didn't create the program that forced mortgage lenders to give mortgages to underqualified buyers. The actual program that put these subprime mortgages in play and got lower income people buying houses started in the 70's then increased some in the 80's. Clinton then made it even easier to give these loans out. Add in a little deregulation that can turn those mortgages into a product that can be bought and sold on the open market and you have a recipe for disaster.

All your bright young things will compete with Chinese workers and companies.

Assuming billionaires will create well-paying jobs in the West. Displays a level of naivety that beggars belief. Especially from a man who creates jobs overseas for lower paid workers than girls in the US.

If the Internet was restricted to only the country the consumer was in. You would be hiring Americans for American consumers. British for British consumers. Your French girls must do best in French-speaking countries.

The skills level is irrelevant. Chinese Nuclear Scientists compete with US/British Nuclear Scientists. And that goes right down to importing toilet cleaners from the Third World to work cheaper the Western ones.

So it was Clinton.

Clinton basically put a few things into motion that allowed several bad things to finally get together. Then Bush got into the White House and found the economy lagging to he dropped interest rates to the floor which spurred the housing industry and allowed banks to basically hand out subprime mortgages that had introductory rates that were very low. Of course, five years later, when the rates had gone back up some and the rates of those mortgages changed a lot of people found their house payments doubling and even tripling and everything crashed and burned.

So Clinton got the ball rolling then Bush kicked it into the goal.

Then why don't they dominate the two houses? Who were able to block Obama and would have blocked Clinton. How many Reps vs Dems politicians are there in the two houses? One minute you tell me the Republicans kept blocking Obama, now you imply they aren't getting elected because Democrats win by a landslide. Make up your mind.

I understand the thing about Hillary being the worse candidate possible. She barely beat Trump in the popular vote and if that was what decided the result. Both would have campaigned differently.

You seriously have no clue about US politics. :1orglaugh

It's the Governments job to regulate these gamblers. Not hand them the tools to bankrupt us. The problem is the money they donate and the need for some sort of industry to keep GDP and the economy from tanking.

Nice to see you agree with me that it was Clinton's fault.

Now let's discuss his other big fuck up. The Trade Deals that signed away the jobs of those workers who he gave mortgages to.

Here is how I lay out the blame when it comes to causing the recession.

Bill Clinton/Democrats - 15%
Bush/Republicans - 20%
Various people from the 1970's-1990's - 5%
Dumb people who bought a house they can't afford - 10%
Greedy banks/bankers/investors being reckless - 50%

I look at it as politicians being the enablers whom changed the laws to let the bankers do it.

The banker then did it, but the home owners were stupid enough to sign up for it. I think each holds equal blame as they each played a role and with out one or the other it never could of happened.

Meanwhile the only one of the group to be bailed out was the bankers, but of course that's who the politicians work for anyway.

Both bankers and politicians should of went to jail. The home owners should of just been fucked..

@ Paul You are not relevant anymore.
Is this how you enjoy your retirement? Cheap drama?

Tell the world how we are fucking up?

The mortgage crash was symptomatic.

It's the damn war <stupid>. (* to borrow for Bill Clinton's election tag-line).

The mortgage market was allowed to go nuts. The GW Bush administration allowed (FNMA), commonly known as Fannie Mae, to over finance and exceed the responsible LTV ( loan-to-value) ratios. There was bank fraud in both borrower applications and appraisals. The housing market was manipulated to finance fake prosperity while war debt was piling up on the US national debt. Robust economic activity, or its illusion on the markets, lowers the borrowing interest costs to the government ...

The financially irresponsible borrowers, not being limited by responsible mortgage lenders defaulted, then the house of cards collapsed, The Great Recession <Viola>

The problem is that these mortgages were being sold around the world as pooled securities with false representations of their values stated by rating companies. It was a scam that collapsed and triggered the market crash. Then the top 1% bought up the market after it crashed and made fortunes.

This DJI of 20,000 may crash again soon and the process repeats ...

Bend over and spread your cheeks ...

http://ei.marketwatch.com//Multimedi...8-001cc448aede

Trump rally could mark biggest postelection stock market rise since Hoover - MarketWatch

Look at it this way. Republican voters finally have their way. Republicans now control everything. You won, republicans, contrats. Now please go Make America Great Again.

Like the dog that finally catches the tire

look at it this way. while liberals were ripping bongs & watching jon stewart, GOP was busy at the state level out competing & outworking liberal democrats. Libs only show up for the presidential election, & take the other 3 years off.

it has turned into a fatal problem given the liberal media creates such a bubble world for the left that they were talking about the GOP imploding after the election, oblivious to the internal rot of their own party, which the liberal media pretends doesnt exist.

even now, the liberal media looks outward for excuses for hilarys loss - russians, comey, fake news. Libs fooled themselves thinking black lives matter rallies, & dozens of liberal media channels parroting the same race whining bullshit, equals a strong party.

wrong. :1orglaugh

Bill Clinton, GWB, other politicians and bad financial regulations 100%

Blaming the Bankers for getting very rich. Is like blaming a mad dog running wild and biting people. And not blaming the owners.

Those who want more deregulation in business, be careful you might just get what you wish for.

So you admit to fucking up.

Ther problem with people is often down to perception.

Some here think they have no power and will get fucked whoever they vote for so vote for the guys who will carry on fucking them.

Others vote for people who offer quick fixes. For instance, bringing jobs back to America will force up the price of goods. Double to Quadruple what it costs to make the same product in the West. Are they willing to pay that much to give a countryman a job and slow down the decline of their country for their children's sake?

Some think there will always be opportunities for the brightest. Not thinking there will be another 10,000s bright people in their own country looking for an opportunity and a many more overseas.

Some think the Government should spend more and lower the debt. So here's an idea.

Trump promised to spend more to rebuild the infrastructure. The Government spends nothing and passes all the cost onto Americans who use the facilities that are rebuilt. For instance tolls on roads, bridges, higher charges for electricity, water, telecommunications, security infrastructure, etc. Road charges are easy as are all the other charges. None of this is done with taxes or by the Government. Trump signs it over to Corporations to rebuild and make the users pay for it and provide a profit.

This could be carried through to many other services the Government provides. And there is no getting out of it. Unless you live under a bridge. Your kids go to school, you pay for the tuition, you want police to protect you, you pay for it, you want your house extinguished should it catch on fire, you pay for it. And so on.

Countries in Europe have the same problem. Governments promise things the people can't afford.

They thought the public would vote for a toxic candidate because the other guy was toxic.

Both sides having been giving you the finger. And it's been going on for decades.

Not exactly. Dems didn't get off their asses to vote, correct, but dems admit this. But if you think Pussy Grabber-elect had no help from Russia, and idiots who believe fake news, then you're wrong.

Paul I have lots of experience with failures and usually know when people are full of shit.

No Mark. Hillary Clinton was a consensus candidate.

Her predicted election success turns out to have been a 50/50 shot as Trump played the hand he dealt himself better.

What is done is done.

ahahahaha, th silly bottom never changes.

"caused"

A simple fact of macro-economics is that economies both expand and contact regularly and in cycles with each being proportionate to the other. NO ONE can prevent an economic recession AND have consistent economic growth. They both go hand in hand. There was a massive boom... and we paid for it with a proportionate crash. That is the norm. One can't be said to be responsible for significant economic growth and then at the same time be said to have played no role whatsoever in the inevitable recession/correction. The real estate bubble happened because as you know, over a long period of time, things slowly got increasingly wacky with lending and there a LOT of blame to go around for that as it happened over several decades. It's also easy to say "Bush" or "XYZ" should have stopped it... but anyone should understand that obviously no one, anywhere ever is going to get on board with making it harder to get a mortgage - which would also have immediate, far reaching consequences economically and politically.

My personally issue with the housing market collapse is that we didn't let all the associated banks and companies like Lehman Brothers etc collapse as well. Instead, companies made shitty and wreckless decisions and then paid no real economic price for it. The tax payers had to pay for it. Even passing a retarded fucking stimulous package to bail out banks under the presumption that they would just pump that money back into the economy and start lending, but they instead just sat on it to ride it all out and see what happens. An exercise in epic retardedness when it comes to legislation and tax payer money

Wikileaks says they didn't get their stuff from Russia. Its cute watching you believe everything Assange had to say when he was releasing stuff about Bush but now think he's lying.


Hysterical actually.

So you think it is perfectly okay for banks to do things that they know are irresponsible and damaging and will turn bad for people down the road all for the sake of making a profit?

Banks like Washington Mutual were giving away mortgages to people who had no jobs and no source of income. When asked, they said that a source of income was not one of the criteria for qualifying or a loan. And why would they care? They give the mortgage then within 48 hours have packaged it up and sold it to someone else. Those people sell it to someone else and it gets passed around. Eventually, someone has to deal with it when it goes bad.

Suggesting the banks weren't at fault for their own behaviour is rediculous.

You really don't understand what happened do you?


JPMorgan to pay Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac $5.1 billion over mortgage securities

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.bc930648fc6a

The Nature and the Origin of the Subprime Mortgage Crisis butt ugly old school HTML site but it is pretty much dead on.

The corruption of the loan origination process was the core problem.
The loan originators sold the loans to big banks who sold off crap loans to the government but continued to service the loans for a fee, then the loans were packaged into securities and sold off to investors as sub-prime loan pools when default guarantees. These former-government agencies, probably through incompetence (major fraud?), had a major role also. AIG almost failed because of credit default swaps insured with securitized mortgages

https://insight.kellogg.northwestern...t-wrong-at-aig
What Went Wrong at AIG?
Unpacking the insurance giant's collapse.
Based on the research of Robert McDonald and Anna Paulson

They all made money until the scam collapsed and the government, really the taxpayer, got stuck paying for most of the loss.

So much for successful privatization of government agencies ...:2 cents:

Privatizing Social Security will make this look like a cake-walk.

exactly. It really annoys the shit out of me hearing assholes say Obama's anything but a good person. He's not just been good for the US, but has done the world proud :thumbsup

if not, he'll be pushed out & Pence in. Which would be the end until the next election in 2020 :2 cents: