The whole Eurasia is a former "Soviet republic". This thread is about the Muslim immigrants and it has no relation your 3rd-world shithole country. It's about Europe, dumb fuck. Nobody cares what you - redneck do with your drunk sisters in the trailer and we don't care how many Russian prostitutes have pissed into a mount of your president on that video. It's about the Muslim immigrants in EUROPE. Read the title already, clown.

Not to divert the discussion back to the original post....but this is about the most sloppy polling I've seen in a long time
"nationally representative samples of the population aged 18 or over in Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Poland, Spain and the UK. Fieldwork was carried out online using quota sampling (age, gender and region) between 12 December 2016 and 11 January 2017. The total number of respondents was 10,195 (c. 1,000 per country).​

So they got 1000 people per country (really representative) and asked them to fill out a survey online and the survey was done before the Executive order was issued by Trump.....

And you guys can explode with fake discussions that are built on your own feelings - not facts

What losers :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I think you realy don't know anything and don't know how to read.

You mix two topics. First i get rid of your one vision view that there need to be more immigrants cause the German population will shrink. There are other solutions for that, like more productivity by using machines.

What you are saying, we mustn't use more machines cause than nobody will work anymore an not be able to buy products.... So you want to stop people making better, smarter machines to just keep everyone going to their job from 9 - 5 for a small income...

And than i look what exactly what the people that support immigration say about the future. Give people a basic income, cause there is no job fo everyine in the future is what the immigration supporters want.

And now you start talking about putting all the immigrants out of the USA. There is no hitler who can do that. You can only stop more people coming in, that is what this is about.

I am so stupid that Stephen Hawking says the same tommyboy

"The concerns underlying these votes about the economic consequences of globalisation and accelerating technological change are absolutely understandable. The automation of factories has already decimated jobs in traditional manufacturing, and the rise of artificial intelligence is likely to extend this job destruction deep into the middle classes, with only the most caring, creative or supervisory roles remaining."

"This in turn will accelerate the already widening economic inequality around the world. The internet and the platforms that it makes possible allow very small groups of individuals to make enormous profits while employing very few people. This is inevitable, it is progress, but it is also socially destructive."

"With not only jobs but entire industries disappearing, we must help people to retrain for a new world and support them financially while they do so. If communities and economies cannot cope with current levels of migration, we must do more to encourage global development, as that is the only way that the migratory millions will be persuaded to seek their future at home."

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...net-inequality

actually the violence have very little to do with it i think, i can understand what europeans feel somehow although they sometimes göne too far, mostly the migrants WHO moved to Europe seems to be less educated ones and unfortunately Eu countries failed intagrating them as well.

however many things to blame still existing to some of these stupid assholes, they don't put also enough efforts to be a part of society at the places where they be.

for example many Turkian migrants are in Germany and the countries around, some are really intagrated and doing fine there, but yet some of these meat brains even way backward than what we are in Turkiye, they kinda like they stuck the 30-40 years ago WHO they were.

aditionally Westerners need to understand that muslims are not fabricated, there are westernized ones, conservative ones and hardcore ones, like in any group, though muslims need to evolve more.

so what i mean is we can't simply ajitate and ignore the facts, but this is valid for two sides for boath muslim migrants and West.

i think the one who can´t read and understand (including your statements from steven hawking) is YOU

WTF are you talking about ? you want to replace POPULATION with machines ???
are you sick or waht is wrong in your head?

as long as there ARE no such machines who are replacing handwork your plan will not work.
second:
for BUY something you need someone who have an income. and PROSPERITY does not mean having a high income but can´t buy anything with it because the products are too expensive.

the automobile industry is on that way - they are cutting more jobs every year.
WHO IS GOING TO PAY THEM ??????

the government? ohhhh good idea FROM WHAT ? from the double or triple tax from the
poor intelligent guys WHO STILL HAVE WORK ???
or will you pay them ?

what fucking dream you are dreaming!
there is ENOUGH work for everyone on this already half fucked planet. but instead putting money into repair the world the money goes in weapons what are destoying the world.

there is already one who is worse and more stupid than hitler. because the jews he kicked out have been rich and he have stolen all their money.
what you want to kick out are the cheap labours who make your life cheaper and better.
so you kick out the one and only value this people can have for a country.

the difference between you and steven hawking is that big as the difference between a library and an empty piece of paper.

If you would understand 1% in what you have copied and pasted here, you would know that he sais EXACTLY the opposite of you.

yes read that - again and again and again til you UNDERSTAND what he is talking about you underminded street clown.

you are right in many of your points and i really would like to discuss that further and on a cultivated level with you. but before we go any deeper into that "the europeans suffer-story" I want to tell you that a horrible big part of the news are fake or are PROVOCATED by asshole nazis who are doing all to let the bad news sprad around EVEN WHEN THEY ARE NOT TRUE.

the newest story (and this is not the only one there are THOUSANDS of fake news are spreading over the planet) is that there have been hundrets of crimes reported where imigrants where blamed for.
now they found out that there where massive big and organized groups who reported crimes what did not happen.


READ HERE

i would not wonder if rattlesnakes like trump or le pen wehre behind that just to produce horror stories what helps them bringing fear to their countries and get voted from the brainwashed.

i do not say that there is NO problem with the refugees and with the immigration politics but in US this topic is growing to a brother war.
they meanwhile hate each other more as they hate refugees. that is what i call BRAINWASHED!

http://i.imgur.com/CEH7gG0.gif

Whatever you say, Tommy :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

You realy can't read and understand it, i am sorry for you.

Keep playing your old record and if pro-immigration and economic refugee supporters:

Still don't know where the immigrants are needed for..

who farted in your brain?

first of all in this part what you copy and copy again (without even read or understand it)
i explained what merkel´s idea behind that was NOT MINE you fuckhead.

then you explain me your world without workers and just machines and don´t tell me from what this non-workers make money.

i will tell you something what your kiddybrain will maybe never understand but maybe you will find someone intelligent and pacient in your near who can explain that to you.

WHAT kind of business man will open a factorey where he produce goods with robots and that he is ABLE to sell this products to the notworking people he have to give them the money to do that first. WHO will be that idiot?
I tell you who that COULD be - the state !!!!

and now think about your fucking stupid words you knight of the free markets - because THAT IS CALLED COMMUNISM you fucking idiot !!!!!

No dumb fuck, this is about European countries listed in OP post. Yes, the civilized Europe, where Syrian and other refugee desperately want to get to, so they can get their welfare checks. Your fucked up country can't pay your own elderly and encourage them to "get well in good spirits".. Your part of "Europe" is a same shit hole those "refugees" come from. Why would they go from one shit hole to equally shitty one, eh? I bet one of those prostitutes our 70 year old prez fucked was one of your sisters, Boris!!! Did he pull dirty Sanchez on her and now Vlad is blackmailing him with pictures? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

The civilized Europe does not accept them at all, you stupid American ass clown.

- My world?, is is what Stephen Hawking says. Less jobs, cause of new industries.
- Basic Income, that is not my idea, that are the left wing parties in Europe who want that (and also want more immigrants and refugees)
- Why won't i open a factory complete automated. When i am the first.. It is like giving away free porn or mainstream movies and music. Shit, that is already happening... youtube, pornhub,.. So who is so stupid to think that that won't happen in other industries when the production cost are low. Amazon is replacing the mailman. Cashiers are replaced, people that washes cars by hand are replaced, lawyers will be replaced for an important part and so on. I never heard a dildo factory saying "we stop involving our machines cause else who must fire people and than they can't buy our dildo anymore". Never heard that when they shut down car factories also. Those industries wheren't afraid people couldn't buy a car anymore.

You are realy narrow minded. Insulting to get your point. But it is not working.

From the extremely high taxes the few in work have to pay. Or the people will rebel.

You must be posting from the 1970 whan the Third world was only making low tech or non-tech goods.

Now they're making high tech and sellimng it to the US. And show no signs of stopping thier drice towards getting more High Tech.

Which were all required when goods were made in the West.

NOW WE COME TO YOUR VISION:

Not when companies move to automation. The price will be higher but the extrat taxes from the companies based in the West, the jobs based in the West and the lowering of unemployment and needs for State benefits will repay the highter costs.

Why do you assume there will be no import?

People will have to consume less. Less production in China does mean less workers - less workers means less income - less income= less demand - less demand= less production........ IN CHINA. But more in America than losing the manufgaturing/production base.

Is that less than they would lose competing with Third World countries?

But to share that production base with the Third World means the Fist is getting even poorer.

Agreed. Consumption in the West is falling because so many are losing their jobs.

At the present rate it will be India not Mexico that becomes the #2 economy in the World. Taking jobs from Americans.

You seem to think I'm preaching the West cuts off imports. There will be trading between Western countries and trade with the Third World. The only way to ensure the wealth is shared is that the trade is balanced. At the moment most First Wolrd Countries have a growing trade deficit with the Third world that is losing jobs and wealth from all but a minority of Westerners.

Unless your income relies a lot on Third World Sales, this is going to make you poorer.

WHO shall buy the stuff when 50% are unemployed and WITH WHAT do they buy it?

When their employer moved their jobs to the Third world.

you really needd to think before you type.

well we have that already - not because of unemployed but for too many old people who have to be paid by the young.

in average in germany a single with no kids who get paid 2000 euro per month in his hand is a cost factor of 7500 euro per month. so more the 75% goes into tax, social security and other OBLIGATE costs.

why do you think merkel wants fresh young people in the country?
because if that will not be stopped in about 15 years the net to gross ratio is 10:90
because of less workers and more older people with pension.

i don´t knwo where the point is reached when just a few people are working to pay for the ones who are not. but i can see this problem already in Germany and what you want is even worse.

what you want is SLAVERY and in fact immigration is nothing else than that but it does not make the own people to slaves as your concept does.

paul you do not undestand.
i have studied economy and have a degree you did not.

i painted you the consequences and you still do not understand the fact that this offshore workers are doing jobs what americans do not want to do.

so americans should do what they CAN and make the money with qualified work because this qualified and high tech work is NEEDED from the countries what are doing the shitwork.

you do not have the smallest clue of world economy and you preach things what are either communist ideology or unlogic and not practicable.

to understand that you need to have a far wider thinking range - you can not think just one step. maybe you should learn to play chess and than you possibly learn something about strategy and how one move have millions of consequences.

your are imprisoned in a small room without window and door and you want to tell me how the whole building is constructed just by knowing how 4 empty walls look like.

the problem is, when undereducated people have the right to vote for something that they do not understand - it can´t result in something good.

the biggest problem is, that a lot of people are smart enough to know thatthey don´t know and do not go to elections for that reason. but the stupids do not know that they don´t know and they go. trump is the good visible example for such a vote or how a german magazine called it these days "trump is the prove for the increasing stupidy of the americans".

Sorry Paul - what exactly are you claiming here ?

Are you saying I am a migrant ?

Or living on benefits ?

Or both ?

FYI I live and work within 25 miles of where I was born so I am pretty sure I am not a migrant.

With regards to living on benefits, why dont we post screenshots of our bank statements ?

Because Paul I live and work where I was born. I run a successful business and I am financially comfortable. You are a failed pornographer living in Eastern Europe on your state pension.

So what about it Paul ?

oh shit that is fucked up if true...

I'm saying you can only migrate to EU countries. I migrated to a country that wasn't in the EU then.

Are you saying you're not on benefits, I heard otherwise.

If I post my bank statement, will you accept it or scream Photoshop? I assume you will post yours also.

Why do you think I'm a failed pornographer?

This is called Socialism.

And are the Fresh young people educated, have a future, don't be a part of cultural clashes? Cause what i read Turkey is keeping the high potentials and sents the rest further. And if yes, if tou think Europe needs more muslim immigrants, is it worth it. And why can't we just make a higher productivity so fewer people that are working can produce more instead of getting more people in? Must be profitable to use smarter machines if people cost that much. If you look at statistics, it is better not to let unenducated people with a complete different culture in. Cost more than you profit from it.

And guess what! In 15 years most of the old people are dead! It is the baby boom generation. Just take some less economic growth a few years and that will sove itself. And that rich generation will leave some money behind, paid off houses, so no need to feel sorry for the people that have some less economic growth that 15 years.

There are millions africans coming to Europe people expect. How to solve the problem in Africa. Take more people in?

It would be far better if the dam was privatised and all the costs of running it properly were passed onto the consumer. Of course, that would mean a rise in costs for the consumer to pay. </sarcasm>

It's called democracy. Politicians are loath to put up taxes to pay the costs of running a modern country, for fear voters won't vote for them. A similar situation cost the lives of people when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans.

You can only migrate to EU countries ? What on earth are you babbling about ?

So you heard I am on benefits ? Now you are just being a silly old man. You have no idea who I am Paul. Do you.

Of course I will post my bank statements.

I know you are a failed pornographer for the following reasons ; a) I have seen your work. b) you live in a small house in eastern Europe and you live off your state pension and the money that your wife earns.

So Paul, what about it.

The thinking of a man stuck in a small box.

Can you guaranty Germany won't Automate or Export jobs in the future? That the jobs market will stay as it is?

Can you guaranty that the migrants coming into Germany will earn the same level as Germans?

You keep thinking it's the number of people in work that determines the level of taxes collected. It's not it's the size of the salaries that determines tax revenues.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...yment-rate-tuc

Can't find one for Germany, maybe you can show Germany isn't doing the same.

http://cdn.static-economist.com/site...out_titles.png

As for the old. Who will look after the old migrants that don't go home when they retire?

According to Karl Marx, Democracy is a form of Communism, when the commune (majority) decides everything ;)

well as i said on my previous post, i agree with what you've said as well and true that politicians use and demonise imigration problems, however muslim societies in the process of seperation of differant camps or maybe we can call it a slow evoluation procedure as well.

i should have tell you that we need to put reality front as a mirror to go twoards right path, chritisizing problems does not mean ignoring the demonistion caused by WHO ever prophits out of it or reverse what i've said :2 cents:

Which never happens under communism or present day democracy.

politicians steal from our pocket to pay their voters, because they always want to look like savers and in fact there should be no democracy aside from building roads/bridges etc, as long as we didn't fix all in accordence with constitution, govs will steal from productive and give it to the parasites.

Look at Sweden - one of the most Socialistic countries today. The rich people pay up to 90% taxes and the money goes to the poor ones. This is a society that Lenin wanted to build in Russia 100 years ago.

prolly for two reasons:
a) you dont invite anyone, they come if they want and they try to get in..its not free pass
b) you dont give them welfare and put them in the refugee camps where there are hundreds of men crowded in one place. they have to work/ do whatever to survive.
c) you dont behave like two faced pussies:winkwink::winkwink:

also true :2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents:
but you cant deny real problems on the other hand... I agree that ppl that follow mass media like sheep are idiots. however its really hard to understand the world on your own, for that you need sense of scale how small you/ we are and what should be the real issues. not everyone has that as most ppl = idiots

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh
99.9 % of tax ? communism ? what are you talking about......

this is not only problem of Germany, but most of Europe (maybe except Scandinavia..- yet).
This is what you get when you bindly follow Bismarck's social security system from XIX century in the XXI century where ppl live 80 years and more.
in one european country that I know :winkwink: current pensions are being paid with CURRENT social fees that other working people pay. so what the fuck happened with the money that these pensioners were paying decades before ? Its a pyramide and ponzi scheme, at least there, dont know about Germany.

it cant be true, I think that he is mistaken, its more like 4000 euros in TOTAL paid/ spend on taxes.
that doesnt include VAT and alcohol taxes :winkwink::winkwink::winkwink:

then anybody wonders why businessmen seak for cheap laber force, if the so called welfare state goes for that so long and yet poor is still poor, then one of the greatest thing that system succeed is making lazyness a chronical desese.

exactly !

and the funny thing comes up when you ask the same people woho declare such funny ideas here if they are communists.

it IS true !

if you are single without children in germany and make like 4500 gross income you get a payout of around 2000. but that is not all because the cost of the labor is MUCH higher because the employer pays 50% of ALL social security costs ON TOP of the 4.400 wich is like 18% so you are already on 5000. now you add holidays (usually not under 25 working days)
holiday salary (usually between 50 and 100% of a months salary) Christmas money (again between 50 and 100% of a months salary).
and then you are already near to the 7500. BUT if that guy went sick, the employer have to pay the first 6 weeks of his salary from the own pocket and then he would be already far over the 7500 costs for this guy.

but the point is that this will increase in the next years. that have also nothing to do with bismarck it was the so called "generation pact" invented by konrad adenauer 1950.
this generation pact means nothing else as the actually working people pay pensions for the people who are old and out of work.
in 1950 it was in average 7 working people who paid for one pensioner - in 2017 this costs have to be shared from only 1,9 workers. and demographic analizes say that this number will go down to 1,5 in the next 15 years.

reasons:
a. people becoming much older now as in 1950 and get longer pension.
b. more people die as been born

result: a decreasing number of workers have to pay for an increasing number of pensioners

Idea to reverse this circumstance from angela merkel:

bringing new, young migrants to the country what would have this 2 effects:

a. more working people who can share this burdon
b. increase of demands in the domestic market because more people in a country = more demand in this country

long term effect = in 2 or 3 gerneration this migrants are highly adapted and even if they go they will export education.

well it is totally fucked up then for mnay reasons
a) imposing tax on work is like encouraging people to get welfare and be lazy (yes , I know that this money supposedly has to go to pensions, but still...) especially such high taxes
b) like you said - generations are getting older due to improving living conditions, and (white) people are too lazy to have kids if they can have comfortable life alone. Also - what is funniest thing is that the only people that love to breed like rabbits are usually those that are not educated
c) with such high labour costs it is totally insane to think about even employing people - from business point of view. yet - you (germany) have one of the smallest unemployment rates, so....strange, unless every worker works on short term contract without pensions funds
d) as for imigrants - I dont think that inviting people from kind of opposite culture was such good idea, prolly better was to "invite" to country like 80 % of Eastern Europeans, Ukrainians, and so on. not 100 % muslim. I also think that some people will exploit the system and instead of working they will suck on welfare...you will see it for yourself
conclusion - the only solution that I see for this is something like small equal state pension to anyone after 60 or 65, just enough to survive and nothing more. otherwise the system will collapse. It was good when people were living 60-70 years old, when the countries were having 5 times less people and there were not so many automatized jobs. And I think that people shuld be smart enough to save money by themselves or invest in good relations (with family ?) for their elderly years and not to believe in system. its the natural selection, sorry.....

So the donkey will hit the same stone twice.

Good. They don't like you coming there either. :thumbsup

Who are the parasites?

Are they the people who can't get a job because of their education level, their job went to the Third World, they were replaced by a machine or migrant who costs less?

The future will contain a lot of those and without a massive drop in population, the "parasites" will rule.

The average tax paid by the average worker in the UYK is 66% and rising. Income tax, health insurance, Council taxes, VAT, fuel, alcohol, etc. Which isn't enough to meet the needs the Government has to supply.

The problem is Tax revenue per capita is around £9,000 and there are millions not earning enough to cross the line between costing and contributing. Those on low wages cost the Government more than they can possibly contribute.

This blows the "We need more people" argument out of site. A country like Germany needs a million more low paid workers like it needs a hole in the head. That million will never contribute until they find a job a German can't do, that earns the average wage. Assuming they're single and never have a family.

Germany's tax revenue is 40% of GDP and it's ?2.15 trillion in debt. So obviously too many costing too much isn't a good system.

If Merkel brings in 100,000 people who each earn ?5,000 per month by doing a job that a German can't do. The country wins by ?500,000,000 per month.

If Merkel brings in 1,000,000 people who each earn ?1,000 per month by doing a job that a German can do. The country loses a lot of money.

There are certain services everyone needs when they enter a country that cost the rest of the people money to supply. Migrants doing a job a citizen can do costs the country more than it will ever contribute. How many of the migrants are qualified well enough to create extra wealth?

Stop thinking Taxes/GDP are reliant on head count and you might get a clue.

what are you talking about?

This system is called socialism, comrade. When you will pay 90%, I will be proudly call you a commie. Just for a note, here in Russia I pay a fixed tax: 6% of my income.

You are showing your stupidity again and again, clown. Russian tourists spend about 24 billion dollars a year in the EU countries. 1.7 million Russians visit only Spain every year and they spend more than Germans or Brits: Cuánto le cuesta a los europeos venir de vacaciones a España? - ABC.es

Course they they don't like us coming there :1orglaugh

Я ж говорю, что ты дебил :1orglaugh

correct - but this is what the trump voters seems to want because it is the logic conesequence when you replace the low educated workers with machines.
the hig educated have to work and pay for the low educated. what will cause, that the high educated are leaving the country.

b) like you said - generations are getting older due to improving living conditions, and (white) people are too lazy to have kids if they can have comfortable life alone. Also - what is funniest thing is that the only people that love to breed like rabbits are usually those that are not educated

also correct - but they will breed in their countries too (or even more) and in 20 or 30
years they represent 95% of the world population. we can´tz do anything againt that because kids are their "social security". we can only try to teach them a better way but that will not work from one day to the next.

c) with such high labour costs it is totally insane to think about even employing people - from business point of view. yet - you (germany) have one of the smallest unemployment rates, so....strange, unless every worker works on short term contract without pensions funds

that would kill the social security system - so an answer on that is not so easy and sure can´t be resolved by the usual beer bar conversations.

well that depend if we speak on a long term or a short term solution.
in 30 or 40 years we have to deal with them anyway - because the planet is fucked already and people like trump will fuck it more.
the countries around the equator are suffering but they are not the guilty ones for that circumstance. the industry nations have done that.

well the german "generation pact have another backgrund. it was after the second war when it was founded. there was no safed money or benefit from earlier paid safeguarding. all was gone. people had to start from zero and the older people had to live from something. so the basic idea was that the working generation pays for the nonworking generation. what was a quite smart idea because it would relative the pensions always with the actual income. but what they did not calculate in that time was, that the baby boom will have an end one day and that people will live that much longer as they do today.

and you really can´t blame them for that because they were making their decisions on the knowledge they had in that time.

You must be begging on the street to pay that little.

My 66% included every level of tax, not just income tax.

Thommy and Rochard or anyone else who chants America's employment stats. This is how it works in the real world and crushes your theory on importing people who will contribute.

Missing wage rises give lie to picture of full employment
With non-UK nationals representing most of 300,000 rise in number employed, labour supply is helping keep lid on wages

I can´t see jobs in Geramy who are done by foreigners what a german would do.

Infact Germany have a unemployment rate of 8,5% (what is the DOUBLE rate as is US)
these are like 2,5 million.

on the other hand there are 1,3 million open jobs - split by 70% in high tech and 30% low paid jobs.

[/QUOTE]
If Merkel brings in 1,000,000 people who each earn ?1,000 per month by doing a job that a German can do. The country loses a lot of money.[/QUOTE]

not at all - because a few years ago they opend the market for cheap workers from poland in the building industry (what had suffered a lot) afetr that decsion the construcion market went up 15% (because the houses whare cheaper) and WITH IT AHEAD went all the perfer industries went up too.

so the real result is that 50.000 foreign workers caused 20.000 ADDITIONAL JOBS in Germany FOR GERMANS !!!
Not ONE Job of a German has gone - there where 20.000 NEW

how can you explain that inside of your theory?

you still do the mistake that you think only one step. you do not think the second. MORE people in a country automaticly brings more internal demand. because this people want to eat, drink, rent a house, drive a car.

and i know EXACTLY with what argument you come up now BUT THEY SEND MONEY HOME
and YES they do that but this money wil be spend in their countries. they will pay tax and make companies producing MORE and this companies will buy the high tech from Germany to do that.

for this reason Germany have a HUGE export plus what let the country PAY BACK depts
since 10 years. Germany´s dept is NOT increasing as US dept does - the dept of USA is increasing 13.000 Dollar PER SECOND !!!

i do NOT think in taxes - i was NEVER thinking in taxes because taxes are IRRELEVANT when money is not spend. the more important part of prosperity is to let the money run FAST from one hand to the other. and in a global market it can run MUCH faster as in a closed market. but US citizens will learn that lesson soon.