[QUOTE=thommy;21760624]trading WHAT ?????
holland does not have big industry and not a lot of natural ressources.

the BIP in holland grow more than 100% since they joined the EU because of the advantage of international trading contracts.

do you think holland import power is the same as the one of the EU ?

that holland CAN be an exporter is not at least a result of chaeper imports and open trading borders.

25% of the total exports from holland are going to germany.

and you REALLY think holland could stand that alone?

if I would be you I would better wait to see how well that goes in britain before you close a door what will not open again.



you should check your vitam D household. paranoia can come from a low vitami D level.




oh sure you will because if the idea of the EU will not stand because of right minded people like you you can get that because after the EU is done you can wipe your ass with it because the Euro is than a piece of paper.

Again, your 4th reich idea, when you don't want to assimilate, the EU will destroy that country? Why doesn't the EU destory Switzerland what is not part of the EU, or Sweden that doesn't have the euro cause the people didn't want it. It is cause there are some euronazis in charge.

Look at other sources, Holland pays more to the EU than it gets. Holland is 1 of the 4 countries that pays more to the EU than it receives. Maybe we loose a little, but wars have been fought to be independent, you can not put that in financial figures. Come on, start a 4th world war if Holland leaves the eu. That is exactly what i and many others are warning about. If Germany uses its power and have a population with all 'Thommies'", there will be a war. Hope the politicians in Germany are a bit smarter. And than the bla bla about helping poor countries by immigration so when they go back they can built up their own vountry. But in the meantime you are thinking about bancrupting Holland when they don't want to say Sieg EU? You are Crazy.

1) Immigration, look at the refugees, that is also part of immigration. The first months Holland was like, come all here, wir schaffen das. But that was soon over. In Holland there is not much problems with immigration, only from some Islam countries. And we can not stop that easily cause than they come from another EU country... And we can not stop deals with for instance Turkey cause than all 28 members must agree (or you must leave the EU). And 90% of the immigration problems in Holland have nothing to do with the Colonisation but mostly with immigrants that where needed to fix the babyboom and rebuild the country... (sorry, i mentioned the war)

2) Look at the studies about the babyboom after WW2. First killing and murdering a big part of the people that where able to work, than the babyboom after the war, than the need of immigration to pay for the elderly, but you say it has nothing to do with WW2. You must be brainwashed. And it is THAT immigration period that causes the problems now, nothing to do with colonialism.

3) Crime isn't that much less. It didn't go up either that much. Look at this respactable newspaper and use Google translate:
Cookies op AD.nl | AD.nl
and
Cijferanalyse: misdaad daalt waarschijnlijk helemaal niet, u doet gewoon geen aangifte meer (1) | 925.nl

4) Economy
Rotterdam harbor was the biggest harbor in the world far before the EU (some years ago China took over the lead). It is growing faster than Hamburg. Europe must thankfull for that, without Holland the EU wouldn't been able to grow. Europe can still use the harbour after Holland leaves the Euro or EU. I don't see problems with that.


"According to the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, the Netherlands was the 18th largest economy of the world in 2012, while the country has only about 17 million inhabitants. (see: List of countries by GDP (nominal)). GDP per capita is roughly $48,860 which makes it one of richest nations in the world (see: List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita). Between 1996 and 2000 annual economic growth (GDP) averaged over 4%, well above the European average. "

You see, well ABOVE the European average, that was before the Euro..

The economy is noted for stable industrial relations, fairly low unemployment and inflation, a very big sizable current account surplus (compared to the size of the country even more than Germany)

The Netherlands is a founding member of the European Union, the OECD and the World Trade Organization.

Holland exports a lot of knowledge, agribusiness, machines, flowers. Espacially export of machines is rising very fast. I know a technician who travels to all Europe, Russia and South America and even China to install Dutch machines.
Cookiewall: Cookies op de Volkskrant | de Volkskrant

Well if Germany fucks Holland, we can Always start making more synthetic drugs and export that, we are number 1 in that also.

So you are more a negative personality, i look at the bright side and see that people will adapt to new situations and will be able to survive. Just like the UK will. There will Always be solutions, and if it goes wrong with the Uk, we should help them. Why do we take the most corrupt countries in the EU, and than turn the back to friendly nations who helped us with wars? That wouldn't happen, the UK could get back in the EU than. But i don't believe they need it.

Thommy is ignoring the WTO trade deal. Holland pays 10% on Exports to the EU and charges 10% on EU imports. Holland loses under that deal, the UK wins.

Can you see people like the bosses of Volkswagen and these allowing that? Even if the bureaucrats are determined to make the EU poorer to keep their dream alive.

oh i did not know that :-)

if you would read i wrote that to mister "i am so smart" just to correct his bullshit:

btw it is senseless to discuss that with you guys - you will learn step by step all by teacher "life".

maybe one day you will have enough brainwashed to push europe back into the middle age - it will not effect me - it will effect people who either forgot that the good old times wasn´t that good or who are not able to make something out of their life.

so do you anarchy thing while i make party.

Yes, that is what i advised :) Grab a beer and go to a Dutch coffeeshop and don't worry, everything will be fine in the end. Just adjust to new situations. I for sure don't worry too much, i am enjoying quiet islands with beautiful beaches where nobody cares too much about politics but are more interested in soccer, UFC, partying on the beach and making love.

I was watching politicians debate the issue of Brexit. Some, who are determined to not leave, want a guaranty that the UK will have access to the single market when the UK leaves.

Why should the EU give them that when the alternative is the UK won't leave?

All the EU needs to do is say no and then the UK has nowhere to go.

I don´t know if you already made the money for the island life but if not you should hurry up.
you will not be able to make it with your concept - except you are one of the iluminati what brainwashed all the rest.

As i said - not my problem - i am fine already with a sufficient numbers of islands :-)

there is no way back for britain.
and WHY should the EU not deal with the brits after the brexit.

they will deal with them as a union. for sure britain will not have the same importance as china and russia (if there will be a normal trade one day) but nobody is interessted to let them go into bancrupcy - no smart businessman would do that and let his customer die.
and that will be the main difference between the EU and britain. britain is not owner of the company any more but welcome as a customer.

So you are saying that you are an economic migrant Paul ?

You moved to a different country because of it would improve your economic outlook.

:thumbsup

I am travelling around since 6 years, mostly staying on nice islands. You need less money for an Island life than for living in Amsterdam :) But sure, with the race to the bottom you must be sure you can live from investments.

I was in your house in Mallorca, great place and great catamaran! I was looking if i should buy a boat and sail around the world, a dream of mine. But internet is not that good on most places. Or i must stay in Europe and than sail from Island to Island in Croatia and Greece for some time.

whatever migrant he is - it is ok for me - and it should be ok EVERYWHERE in the world.

but it stands in opposite to his arguments.

Yes of course... like I said... The Swiss wealth is not coming from Swiss cheese; watches or knives... It comes from all the banks there that have a little free haven to continue their enourmous money laundering business for all major criminals in the world...:1orglaugh

Take the banks away from Swiss and listen closely... the only thing you'll hear are cowbells ringing lol

Of course, I'm an economic migrant. Who migrates to be poorer?

My point is I was allowed to move from the UK to Czech because I brought a business that produces wealth and jobs. The girl who serves you coffee at Starbucks in your local town was allowed to move and take a job and wealth from the UK.

The UK needs to controlled migration like the Australians or the US have.

Exactly. Why should the EU not trade with the UK? Cutting off access or sticking tariffs on EU goods makes no economic sense. The EU wants trade deals with other countries.

Currently, the EFTA States have 27 free trade agreements (covering 38 countries) with the following partners:

Albania
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Canada
Central American States (Costa Rica, Guatemala and Panama)
Chile
Colombia
Egypt
Georgia
Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC)
Hong Kong, China
Israel
Jordan
Korea, Republic of
Lebanon
Macedonia
Mexico
Montenegro
Morocco
Palestinian Authority
Peru
Philippines
Serbia
Singapore
Southern African Customs Union (SACU)
Tunisia
Turkey
Ukraine

Combined they don't make up what they are threatening to throw away by blocking the UK. So the UK gets the trade and loses the ever tightening stranglehold of the EU bureaucrats. Plus the costs of being in a money burning club.

My argument is simple.

Only people who can bring benefits to a country should be allowed to migrate. I'm very pro-controlled migration. The EU is anti-controlled migration because, in the case of the countries taking in the migrants, it drives down wages and taxes and drives up profits and government spending.

People, please read what I write. I have never been anti all migration. My parents and brother migrated to the US, my uncles and cousin to Canada, me to Czech. We are a family of people who move around the world. Taking enough money and skills to get past any migratory regulations. My second wife was an immigrant.

i gave up this dream meanwhile - i was trying to do it for the past 5 years because i spend most of my time in thailand and not in mallorca.

i always dreamed about bringing my boat to thailand but for the same reaons with internet (and my age) I finally gave it up. so my boat what was designed for sailing around the planet will never do it (at least not with me on board) and what hurts is that this is THE ONE AND ONLY dream in my life what i could not make come true. it is fucking hard for me to accept that :-)

Why won't it come trough? I met a girl of 24 who sailed solo to Curacao on a 8 meter boat... I want 11 - 12 meter and be able to sail solo with it. In the end staying in Europe could be better, with the mobile 4G network covering whole Europe it could be interesting. I expect in 5 years good voverige with more G's.

You could rent a captain to sail your boat to Thailand. Or put it on a big boat that is specialized in transporting small ships, a Dutch company does that. I stayed long time on Koh Chang, they made a new harbor 2 years ago, great to have it there near Bangkok. I will be in Thailand at the end of the year.

There is already an airbnb for boats, if you want to rent it out.

That cannot be possible... because the Dutch are not into businesses; they don't have an economy; they could never come up with an idea like that... and btw... If that big boat sails to thailand with the tiny ship on board it means it's exporting business to outside of the EU. That's simply not possible... they totally rely on EU economy... the dutch... hummm...

well if i would rent a captain what advanture would that be.
i am well know for my faible to do all what is not easy and do it without help.

bringing the boat to thailand on a boat transporter will cost me between 60 and 80 k
with european companies - and 10 K with a vietnamese company - but no matter how
I would have to do all the paper work there, change the flag and much more. i think it is smarter to buy a boat there.

who said that i rely on EU economy ?

when i talk about the EU i do not talk about my personal interests. i give a fuck on the EU i give a fuck on holland and i give a fuck on USA or britain and i even give a fuck on germany (even when it is the country where i was born). don´t you understand that ?
if you want to do whatever with your countries - do it - i will come after and buy the rest of the silverware on a cheap price.

i am a citizen of planet earth and that´s why i think for my homeplanet and not for whatever piece of land what will be gone in 30or 40 years - not at least because a bunch of idiots do not believe in climate change and vote for a president what went into the same school with 52 weeks holidays per year. that is why i do not even understand why you talk about imigration in holland - these people can come only for vaccations and maybe in 30 or 40 years they will have a spot in their homeland for you when you can visit your holland only with a diving equipment.

i mean - if you would really think a bit further you would perfectly know what big problems your country will face in the future. did you ever ask who will pay that ? did you ever ask how you want to realize that without a strond union ? did you even calculate if it makes ECONOMICAL sense and what it means to be part of a lonesome society facing a fucking
giant problem?

as i said - it will FOR SURE not be MY problem.
it will not effect me at all. i just want to make you think a bit and show you another perspective. my skills are economical skills and you can turn the thing as much as you want you will ALWAYS end up at the economy when you want to resolve problems.

all this strange ideologies in the world broke at the end of the economy.
ideology will never make dreams working without knowing and accepting the basic market rules. you will not find one example were a dream was stronger as this (known and learnable) reality.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/0d58c1e7...vzrko1_400.gif

Did I say that????

https://68.media.tumblr.com/8de5876c...vzrko1_500.gif

Uhhhh... I never ever anywhere here said that I disagreed with you on the importance of the EU. I had fights on this board with many anti-EU soldiers, like Mr Markham, etc.... about the EU. So no need for you to "teach" me about economics and the EU...

The only thing I commented on was your lack of knowledge about the Dutch economy....

You see? There you did it again... The rise of sealevels is going slower than the growing of Dutch top notch infrastucture- and watermanagement skills. Did you know that the Dutch export watermanagement solutions throughout the world in many billion dollar projects?:winkwink:

i am pretty sure it does - and belive me i do not doubt that holland is a productive country.
infact i love you guys there and i have MANY good dutch friends.

but what i have learned in a quite long and not so unsucsessful life is, that the BIGGEST mistake one can do is to overestimate the own power.

and sure holland will NOT be under water in 30 or 40 years but not because holland is smart enough to build bigger and bigger damms - it is a result of more people in the world start think different.

THAT is one of my major arguments for globalisation - because nearly every country in the world today is able to fuck the whole planet.

and if the planet is fucked - it does not make a difference if you own a small piece or a big piece there.

I really did not go into deep research about holland economy and society - the world is too big and there are too many things to know about. but i GUESS (and as i said this is NOT a research but a guess) that holland is suffering a lot from this costs and technices to prevent the water breaking in.
and NO i am not one of this people who would say then "it is THEIR PROBLEM" - fo me it would be OUR problem too.

i just would wish, that the world finally give up this " we are better " bullshit because we would be BEST if we do it TOGETHER.

i hate it that people seeks enemies and think about eliminate them instead of finding ways to make their enemies to partners and friends. for THAT it is worth to stand and invest time and energy.

so don´t worry when i try to put this thoughts sometimes in more imaginable pictures.

paul, i do not really know what you are thinking what these countries are exporting or importing. i think you always have t-shirts in your mind.

but the fact is, that the most products are parts for machines, computers and technology.
all this machines can NOT be produced for a local market. they are mainly for export and if the export price is too high nobody out there will buy it.

in all your arguments i was reading up to here i found only ONE what i really can agree with - it is the argument about medical prices.

let me explain you what exactly i mean:

i think globalizm is not only good for economy - it also makes a lot of sense for scientific.
i.e. there are many deseases out there whare is no help for it because the "market" is too small. no pharma company will stick money into research because they can´t make profit.
with a global market for such a medication things are changing.
believe me - if only europeans, brits or americans would have HIV nobody would spend a dollar for research. but because this is a worldwide problem there is a lot of research and progress.

now the point you are RIGHT in here is, that this advantage of a global market does not reach the consumer and THIS is something our corrupt politicians are guilty and what have to be stopped.
i bought an antobiotic a few month ago in a pharmacy in Germany and paid 24,95 €
today I bought THE SAME (ever the same brand) in spain and I paid 2,37 €
and if I buy it in Thailand it cost me less than 1 Euro.

THIS is something were I would be in the first line to fight against that because health is a human right and not a privilege.

BUT

exept from that we DO HAVE this advantage from the global market in the local markets.
we CAN buy phones for a few euros - we CAN buy computers, tvs, cars for a fraction of our income - we can fly wherever in the world for just a few peanuts.
ALL that is global market and not ONE of the big industry nations can survive with out it.
even china is not able to produce that cheap anymore because people start to become prosper there. today chinese have iphones (not only the fake ones) they drive mercedes and BMW and they braught so many passengers into planes that even YOUR PLANETICKET is cheap because of them.

so what did this improt trade with china do at the end?
it brought NEW BUYERS !!!!!

even brainless trump starts to understand that because the "enemy of america" from 3 month ago, he calls now a "great guy", because even he with only 3 braincells starts to understand that the loacal market can not survive without the global.

the basic of economy is growth - and this is also a thing what you do not understand when you talk about country depts.
country depts are basicly nothing what is bad. a countries dept will always flow in the market and thats why it is an investion in the future.
germany´s schäuble (with all his success for germany) did not understand that well too.
he thinks much to conservative and risk-free to get that well done on the longterm.

the BASIC problem what EVERY FUCLING POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD HAVE is the fact that he have to make economic decisions and is getting voted from people with NOT THE SMALLEST CLUE of economy.

this is what causes the MOST mistakes, because voters can never understand them.
this is why this people have to make half-corect decisions to still be accepted on the next election.

if they NOT do it half-correct it it can happen that these amateur economists are even able to vote a corrupt and inferiority complexes eaten dumbhead to their president.

Wrong!


Britain´s going to lose because of Brexit and will lose in so many ways.

Already there´s a strain on the money, but now we shall watch the countryside & roads become dilapidated, people´s money is already been set to 500 per home worse off next year.

The 100 billion has not been set, as I´ve already said, it´s a huge difference & that´s just to pay off the loans from the EU. The EU has not even been established properly yet. Anyone knows 50 yrs isn´t enough for a country to become perfect, look at the rest of the world, so given another 10 yrs, the EU will be running right while the UK has less police, the NHS is tumbling further & the country looks like a shambles.

The world´s losing atm, look at the US with Trump.

Britain should never have been allowed to have a political votes, considering 40% of the country are idiots & the 40% of the country don´t know what to do. So the 20% of intelligent folk wanting to remain, well, voting wasn´t the right move.

that sounds fucking hard but it is reality.

political and economical business is so fucking complicated that even professionals doing a lot of mistakes. but with WHO you want to replace a heart surgeon what is a human and make mistakes? with onother human what is NOT a heart surgeon?
that can´t be the answer.

wait 10 or 15 years and ask them WHO has voted for the brexit. you will not find anyone who voted if that thing will not work (and all looks like that it will not).

look the example of greece - where would they be without the EU ?

and if you talk in a beer bar with an amateur economist about it, he will tell you that the EU and all the countries lost so much money on that case. but this is not fucking true - the opposite is the truth - because greece was the major reason what let the interest fall to zero.

there is not ONE SINGLE COUNTRY in the EU what doesn´t have depts.
the total of the dept of all EU countries is around 10 TRILLION EUROS !!!!!!

greece owes to this country in total around 300 billion.

now lets calculate just 3% interest on 10 trillion and the result are savings of 300 billion PER YEAR !!!!!

if that low interest phase will go on another 2 years - the europen countries have saved
in total 1,5 TRILLION euro - and the best is - they will get the 300 billion from greece also back - because greece is on the way up. if you compare the dept on GOP with countries like Japan you will see that greece have a dept of aproximately 170% of their GOP and Japan 240%.

the greece deficit is decreasing 8 million daily but it is decreasing at least while UKs deficit is INCREASING around 18 million every day.

a fool who thinks to safe a already burning house by cancelling the fire insurance.

most people are worse off from being in the EU. Or do you want to ignore the mess Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy, etc are in? Ignore rising debt, stagnant wages, skyrocketing costs of living and the need for the State to subsidise more and more every year.

People didn't bote out because they have rising standards of living and better futures.

Who cares what they make. Why would the EU cut its nose to spite its face?

Good for whose economy? Not the Governments of the West or the people who live in the West. For them, globalisation is a disaster.

Bullshit. The Third World can't afford those drugs.

How do you propose they stop jobs being taken from the West and not replaced with similar paying jobs?

As I said the Thrid World can't afford the drugs. Are you willing to pay for the Third World to have cheap or free drugs because it's their human rights? Let's say double the price people in the West pay.



While food banks are growing and there are more and more relying on the State for handouts.

But not Western Buyers. Of course the Third World is starting to buy more of its own goods. Are they buying more from the West?


So countries having to borrow more and more to give handouts to those made unemployed is good, in your opinion.

Politicians make decisions based on who pays them the most. As for people not understanding their own economy, you're joking of course. A man who used to have a job paying enough to support his family who is now getting benefits understand his economy very well.


People are voting right wing, OUT of the EU and for Trump because their own personal economies have been fucked.

As for Western economies. Show us which ones have grown after inflation and increased debt are removed. Then deduct the earning of the top 5%. You might be educated,.

You're a clever guy. Explain why the economies of Third World Nations are growing so fast while those of the Thirls World grow so slowly. In fact, take inflation and debt into account and they hardly grow at all in the West.

The UK which is one of the leaders in Western Growth can only manage 2%. Which you want the EU to cut itself off from.

maybe you slept a bit too long paul.

did you mention that the world went through one of it´s biggest financial crisis in the past years ?

EVERY country had a problem with that and countries not in the EU had a even bigger one because they did not have trading partners what could push the trades even when it is with loaned money.

you simply do not understand ANYTHING about economy - that hurts me a bit.

but how can i tell someone that he knows nothing when he does not know that he knows nothing - i need a special plan for people like you.

let´s start by buying a monopoly game for you :-) that´s a good beginning.

In far lower debt and able to manage it.

Bullshit. Bonds are what govern country debt interest.

But should they be rising so fast?

greece owes to this country in total around 300 billion.

How can the interst on a debt be a saving?


So the EU has been so great, debt is increasing for the UK. You're an amateur economist.

i can easily explain you that

1. because it was SOOOOO FAR BEHIND our economy that i can only grow
2. because they have something what we do not have but need: CHEAP LABOUR
3. because our economy can only grow with new customers - if the rest of the wolrd is poor they can never become customers.

ist that so hard to understand ?

i will just give you a small number to think about.

in 1985 the us was EXPORTING to china a total of 3,8 Billion dollars
in 2016 china bought FROM THE US good in the value of 115,775 Billion dollars

and YES US was IMPORTING in the same year FROM CHINA goods in value of 462,813 billion.

and you know for WHAT the MOST of these imports was?
it have been parts of other machines and instruments what US could only EXPORT to other countries because they had an affordable price.

if this parts would NOT be IMPORTED they could not be produced for competitive market price. means they would NOT be produced and NOT be EXPORTED

isn´t that simple ???

no - and i explained you already why - greece was the biggest win of all eu-countries.

for what do they need bonds? and where is the interest rate of them now ?

https://index.fmh.de/charts/fmh/week...4656fb9_fs.png

a country also can easily print money and that is what they actually do.

but the problem of this crisis was not there there was no money - the problem was that nobody spend it.

to force this spendings the interest rates have decreased UNDER ZERO

and the second effect is that any state can borrow money without interest and pay back older loans what are still intrest bounded and the fresh money is interest free.
everyone who had loans made that in the low interst phase. so WHY do they do it if there is no saving?

after the crash there was no other way. US came out of the crisis faster because they even loaned MUCH MORE as the europeans did.

fine - and they are on a good way to pay it back - so a nice biz for all exept the greecs.

if you do nozt have to pay interst it is a saving - or is that in your dreamland different?

i am not an amatuer paul - i told you already that i have studied and TEACHED that.
so i will not know same about cameras as you might know but believe me that you do not know 1% of what i know about this topic.

UK fucked because they wanted to keep the pound. all forward calculations have been fucked by that decisions because they did not know how much in real they have to pay for something in the comming year.

the same problem effected the exports.
goods are not produced and wait that someone comes an buy them.
goods are produced ON ORDER.

if you order something for 100 pound now and don´t know what the value of this currency is in the comming year - you have no reliable calculation base.

let´s say you are a british travel agency and you sell holidays in mallorca. that means you will receive a euro price for the next season. than you offer your customers this hotel for the next season in british pound when the pound is high. but in the next season when this customers are travelling and the bill is to pay the pound is low. means you pay more as you got.
this is a risk - and no serious business man likes risks.

It's impossible to understand because it's bullshit. People on $1 an hour aren't great customers.

Which is why these prove you wrong.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defau...3_WorldGDP.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kGz7Hzgl9O...+by+region.jpg

If they were customers to the West, the West's GDP wouldn't be declining.

So why is the US GDP declining?

Bullshit is simple.

Now I'm not sure if you're teasing us or serious. Greece can't print money.

Greece had billions to spend and still it's economy nose-dived. The problem isn't spending, it's creqating a product people want to buy.

Bonds determine interest rates via the rating agency. Please study upon the subject.

Go research rating agencies and how they determine interests rate. Then study how countries issue bonds promising to repay the bond in a certain time at a certain interest rate.


I have just proven you to be ignorant or a liar.

so why does the UK have such a high Credit rating?

Yes this will be a problem with imports until the GBP strengthens again. The upside is exports are cheaper and tourists booking a holiday in the UK win.

Your statements on Government Debt interest being tied to countries base rate of interests proves you're a fool or conning us. Which after all the insults you have thrown at others is amazing. The idea you taught economics isn't fooling anyone.

greece can´t - but the EU can - actually they do not even have to print it because money can be just a balance.

greece has since one year a positive grow - much better than UK and many other EU-countries.

first of all these are international bonds - the majority of the bonds are national.

number 2: as you have seen in the stats i send you the bonds interest decreased
DRAMATICLY.

3. every country on the fucking planet pays the interest of the old depts with NEW DEPTS
if they can make new depts with lower interest do they NOT SAFE MONEY?

no you have proven yourself as an idiot with NO KNOWLEDGE !

because it still is in the EU and the EU countries giving guarantees to each other.
britains rating already dropped from AAA to AA and after the brexit it will drop more.

and it will make exports more expensive again - so you can turn it however you want - britain can only survive with a fucking low pound what will give the british industry a chance to export on affordable prices but the nessecary IMPORTS to produce this goods will drive the price higher.
that means, they have to safe it on the only thing they have: on NATIONAL LABOUR COSTS !!!

paul i think you should give up to discuss things what you do not understand.
i think there is NOBODY here who does not understand this really BASIC economy things.

to call me a fool shows that you do not understand it and are ignorant enough to see the truth. the world does not go your way - it goes the LOGIC way.

people like you are the reason that i am a figher for good education. peaple who did never learn about the basics of economy should not have the right to vote because they are voting without knowlegde.

this is a problem ALL over the planet and this is why fools like you think they can jump over their own shadow.

your own business is a proove that you are wrong.
YOU went to another country to produce CHEAPER as in your own country to sell this stuff to a GLOBAL MARKET were you would not survive without breaking all your own rules !

Greek central bank has a currency press outside Athens :2 cents:

Some people forget or are not aware that the British Elite have more power than those in any other nation. If anything bad happens to Britain after leaving the EU, it will be because those guys decided to do it for their own reasons, not because of external forces. :2 cents:

well - if they can or not does not matter.
in this case they can´t because this currency press could only be used if they step back to the drachme (what would kill their economy completely).

the basic point on values is productivity and productivity is a mix of things what are done on the most economic way.
so if britain i.e. can produce a totally wonderful machine - 50-70% of this this machine parts are done offshore because they can be produced with the same quality but on lower costs.

if the same parts would be produced IN UK the machine would not be better but MUCH MORE expensive.

so now let´s say this machine is for a hospital and costs instead 50.000 pound now 100.000. and to produce it for that selling price the company have to produce 1000 of this machines.

what happens next?

1. as the rest of the world can buy this machine for 50.000 somewhere else - they will NOT buy it from britain.

2. british hospitals will not buy 1000 machines because they need only 100

3. to produce only 100 machines will lead to the following results:

a. the machine will NOT be produced and the british hospitals have to IMPORT IT
or
b. the company will produce 100 machines but now they will cost 250.000

the 100 machines are sold to british hospitals and the health costs will INCREASE DRAMATICLY.

this is what happens in paul´s world.

true - a british machine producer will not accept to get stopped on his business.
he can see the much bigger market and have to decide between the small and compliaceted or the bigger and easy.

so this elite will say good bye to britain and produce outside for the market of a complete planet.

you can´t force people not to do that.
if so, paul would be forced to come back home ans spend his pensions in the country where he get it from.

He's an idiot and trying to play it as if he has a clue.

The Elite run America and most of the world. The crazy part is the people keep voting for the puppets of the elite.

I don't want to do away with capitalism or big business. But the West has to realise that unless it controls where big business moves production to and where big business pays taxes. The people are going to get shafted even more than they are now.

That can only be done by maintaining trade deals that make sure they can't move out of a country they intend to sell into or place the HQ in a PO Box in the Cayman Islands or similar.

The EU is part of the problem in allowing me to shift to a cheaper country with ease and even with grants or having different rates of Corporation tax in the different EU States. Both laws set to make the rich richer beyond their dreams and fuck the poor of Europe. Did the richer EU States allow countries like Greece to borrow beyond their means to repay, so the richer States could sell them goods they didn't need?

Good question.

I was under the impression it was mainly their benefits payout issues. With 25 percent unemployment, and all those people being paid unemployments, and 18% of its economy paying out pensions alone.

maybe it was wrong to study that suff.
as i see it is enough to hold a camera on a chech pussy to understand the world economy
and resolve the problems of the planet.

Those people getting the benefits were spending some of the money on goods Greece doesn't produce. What the Government was buying is another question.

Whatever, the wise EU Bureaucrats created a currency and then to get it adopted by the EU States they allowed individual countries to borrow with no real limits.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8wuk34LKkh...n-gov-debt.jpg

DebtClocks.eu - Debt clocks of the EU Member States - comparison

The problem today is Western Countries need to borrow money to keep paying the benefits out of work or low paid workers need to survive. While adding to the need to borrow by increasing populations.

Even if Greece did have high benefits, if the Greeks were spending their money on Greek goods, it would have been creating employment. Once you factor in they were buying foreign goods, the money disappears. And the only way to keep people from starting a revolution is to borrow more money. :upsidedow

You never studied squat. Read this and see how wrong you are.

https://www.google.cz/webhp?hl=en&gw...s+borrow+money

https://money.stackexchange.com/ques...row-money-from

You don't have a clue.

so the west should not do as you did but as you say? because you moved production to a cheap country and moved taxes out of your country :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

paul let me ask you...do you understand the concept of hypocrisy and why it is wrong to be a hypocrite?...just wondering...

I am not the slightest worried Paul took a decision to move elsewhere while discussing solutions which goes against the fact he moved in the first place.

Sometimes decisions have to be made on a personal level.

You make it sound the whole western civilization is in the hands of him.

Exactly.

Yes. But does that make my statement wrong?

American cam girls selling to American clients has no effect on American GDP. Serbian cam girls selling to American clients deducts from American GDP. Now think of the damage Nokia, Mitsui, Hitachi, Sinochem, etc do.

It would be great if the countries they were based in bought the same amount of goods back from the countries they sell to. Sadly in the case of the Third World, and countries like Czech, the average income of most people are far too low to buy a lot of imported goods. From First World Nations.

https://i.imgflip.com/13wtay.jpg

And at the moment the liberal agenda is to keep the game exactly as it is or increase it. How many politicians worship free trade?

The point is that Markham wants to tell everyone else not to do what he did.

The point is Markham has the answers for the whole of western civilisation - if only people would listen.