That increase is something to factor also. I don't know if that was assumed in that projection or not. I think it may be in there to have such a rosy projection.

The sun is always the same price and is there. Barring a nuclear winter -- but then it's game over anyway.

I am looking at the ROI not the monthly savings in cash lay outs. Dependability and reduction of environmental damage is of more interest really. Twice in the past 5 years the electric power has shut down for days. Late March a storm cut power for 14 hours. Pain in the ass no electric to power the furnace or my water well. Outages in the summer: there is no air conditioning. Outdoor lighting and security. The Internet lines may be working -- but the modem and routers are not. I cannot do any serious work on 4G ... Different motivation ...

Your video is interesting I'm still watching his presentation he makes a lot of sense.

In a weird and different way it reminds me of this video published in 2006 predicting where things are headed, they were 90% correct if you watch to the end, or have seen it before.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...-to-potato.jpg


Ever heard of inflation / purchasing power of currency?

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

:1orglaugh :helpme :1orglaugh

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Anyway, here you go Einstein: https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data....php?t=ptb0810

Statistics from 1960 to 2011

my dear god are you joking or are you really so stupid that you did not realize that what you say i just ANOTHER argument against you, you troll ?

In California Rochard gets a tax credit for 30% of the cost of the solar package he bought as well as a $2,000 a year solar tax credit as well as selling his surplus energy to the electric company.

Rochard also qualifies for a lot of new state programs he might not even know about including reduced electricity rates. There are 211 different rebate/discount programs here in California as well as federal grants to help pay for his solar install loan.

Go Solar California

fuck what is wrong in USA with your education system????

what are you doing there ein school? learn to clean a gun or what?

what is the difference between nominal and real in the walnut what you call brain ?

a 5 year old child can understand that but you obviously not. no wonder that you have voted for trump because stupid can only communicate with other stupid.

Why do you think Google Expert (formerly username Muad'Dib) is American?

it is senseless to explain - this guy can not even work with a calculator and does not understand the difference between nominal and real.

arguments like "inflation speaks against a long term loan" shows you how much they understand of what they are talking about.
those people a a SHAME for the education system in your country.
i can find people in the african bush who will understand more about economy as a so called education priviledged.

if that is the result you should rent your schools there to mc donalds.

The whole concept is great as I am concerned. What is also interesting is 500 bucks per referral. Sounds like the niche if they have a tracking system. I remember that long time ago I was reading about some guy that earned a lot of money by making a website that was basically comparing and calculating best options for visitors and then sending them to signup to a suitable company. I think it was in Australia if I remember good.

the well known future.Good luck using it

this isn't just a "loan"... it's getting a loan to buy rapidly depreciating, degrading (power output degrades by 0%-4% per year), expensive to maintain/repair equipment sold by a company that is losing $$ each year (so after gov subsidies dry up there is high likelihood of them going out of business)

but it does not matter because when he say he paid between 150 and 450 per month
it means that he paid in avarerage 300 and now 117 - what is already a difference of 183 per month or 2.196 per year.

not added yet the tax advantage (what i don´t know how much it is) not added yet an inflation rate over the next 20 years what will bring that costs down again because while energy costs will increase and currency losing value he still have to pay only the 117.

within the 20 years the costs for a house solar will also decrease so at the end of the time he safed that much money that he can buy 2 or 3 new ones.

not metioned yet the effect on the environment.

my father in law installed such a system 10 years ago IN GERAMNY when it was still expensive and not that much ective as the new ones. he was on ZERO already 6 years ago because he is selling the overproduction into the public net. means: he does not have costs for electricity but GETS evenry month money from the overproduction.

now is germany not the country well known for a lot of sun and the technology is 10 years old but since that day he never used even one kilowatt from the electricity company.

so it works - and this is nothing very new.

/thread :2 cents:

So, according to you, he can go 20 years and have 0% power output degradation, awesome investment! :thumbsup

well even when he lose in average 2% per year he will still have nearly 70% after 20 years.

not a big deal when he calculated the total capacity on 145%

I don't recall the interest rate, we did this a few months ago. It was with a local credit union so it was low. I usually pay my bills off as quickly as possible; I don't like carrying debt.

Do I plan on living here twenty years? I have no idea what the future will bring. However, in theory the value of our house goes up with having solar - home buyer will like not having to pay for power (or solar). If the house goes up $20k in value we just use that money to pay off the loan when we sell the house.

It's a no brainer for me. The warranty covers everything. If the company goes out of business and something breaks down, well, we'll cross that bridge when that time comes.

Let's say the company goes out of business and something breaks down... We pay for repairs. We still come out ahead cost wise.

We can also expand in the future if we need to as well - say we get to Teslas or electric cars in a few years. We can quickly add in other panels.

I hope Rochard revisits this thread monthly with updates showing actual savings compared to projected.

Robbie did't Las Vegas just recently become the first US city to officially be run completely on Solar energy? I'm pretty sure I read that on CNN not long ago. I wonder if that is why prices there are whacky.........they may want to keep a stranglehold on that method since now it's cheap for them and can keep charging you for it.

No. The Las Vegas GOVERNMENT office buildings are the first in the country to run on RENEWABLE energy.

To try and put solar panels on your home in Nevada is a nightmare now. The govt. passed all kinds of laws to protect NV Energy (the power company) and make it hurt you in the wallet to put in solar panels on your own for your home.

NV Energy themselves are putting up huge solar arrays to SELL us power. And they complained to the govt. that homes with solar panels were "Unfairly" not paying "their share" of the new solar arrays for NV Energy.

It's pretty much a huge rip-off. And the govt. (as always) is hand-in-glove working to fuck the citizens over.
Here in Nevada...every home should be producing it's own power independently. Both solar AND wind (the wind here is unreal).

And the entire Mojave Desert should be a giant solar array. It would be enough to power the entire U.S.

Why isn't that reality? You would THINK that with "man-made" climate change being THE most important thing in the world...that Pres. Obama and the Democrat House and Senate would have made that a priority in his first 2 years of his administration in 2009 and 2010. They had TOTAL control.

But they didn't.

I guess we'll get another chance to see how "real" that is when the next Democrat President and full Dem control in the Senate and House takes place.
My prediction: They will do nothing again.

It makes sense to me because they need to recover their investment. They can't charge more for it of course without people freaking out, and maybe they aren't allow to charge less. Who knows. I'm just glad its in place for Vegas.


It used to be more expensive, but now its cheaper. https://cleantechnica.com/2014/09/04...nds-10-charts/


Solar in the 80's was very, very expensive, and very inefficient too. Dismissing solar today because 30 year old technology sucked isn't smart. You should at least give it another look.




To each their own of course, but I think He's added lots of value to his house. We just bought our house about 2 years ago and this year, new houses are going up with solar in place. Even some new apartment buildings are solar. If I was shopping for a new house today, I would like at houses with solar panels included already.


I second that!



Not sure you get it. Rochard was paying $400+ per month for electricity. Now he's paying $117. Not only that, but this is money he's paying into his house, and not to the electric company, and therefore value to his house. This is on top of the reduced pollution he is creating, and on top off the complete elimination of brownouts or short blackouts.

Look at it another way. Imagine you were buying a house for $500,000 and were going to mortgage it over 20 years. Your monthly payments would be around $2200 a month. If you could add $100 to your monthly payments and get "free" electricity (and be super green at the same time) for as long as you owned the house, wouldn't you take it?


Why are you posting stats that are almost 6 years out of date?





https://media.giphy.com/media/PVhrCQyyGzAru/giphy.gif


You're about as interested in that as you are of my own stats driving electric vs gasoline.

If someone wants to use NV Energy assets (power plants, transmission lines, etc) at night they DO in fact need to pay their fair share of the cost to build, maintain, and operate those assests. For most of the US, the cost of electricity itself is probably about half of the bill. The other half is for the grid infrastructure and operational costs.

If someone doesn't want to pay NVE energy grid access fees, they always have the option to disconnect the NVE line to their home. Of course, they would have to pay to put in a battery storage system to handle their load at night and during the parts of the day when their panels aren't generating enough power for their load. They would probably also have to put in more panels, since they would have to generate the all the extra electricity needed to charge the batteries.

Had mine installed 3 weeks ago.. But not doing a monthly pay back plan like you Rochard, rather just paid them in full at once and see my energy bill go down every month without any additional monthly costs.

Even with cloudy weather they generate power, which is a necessity as I'm in the Netherlands lol

If it's such a no-brainer why isn't every business solar powered? clearly it's a great investment and it would result in PR boost? Why are $500 referral fees and huge salesman commissions needed, instead of everyone fighting to get in queue to get it installed? Why are substantial government subsidies needed? Why is the company selling this product struggling, losing $$ every year, only staying afloat because of gov subsidies?

could it be that it's not as great of an investment as everyone makes it out to be?

https://s17.postimg.org/k9mujor27/Fi...s-2017_YIR.png

Solar Industry Data | SEIA

Guess you didn't get the memo ...
Solar Means Business 2016 | SEIA
I am going to guess that the real obstacle is the initial cap cost. How this works producing 3 phase current used by heavy industry?

https://s17.postimg.org/926k22j4v/SM...er_2016-01.png

Nope, you don't have the option to disconnect. It's ILLEGAL to be "off the grid" now in most states. :(

And as I said earlier...with a combination of solar and wind and batteries...you could be completely independent of the power company.

But the govt. has taken that option away from people.
By doing that they save the utility company and the jobs it provides.

So there are two sides to the coin. If everyone were able to produce their own clean energy for free...then hundreds of thousands of jobs across the country would be lost and the "power grid" would be obsolete.

On the other hand...everyone could have free energy and the power grid would be obsolete. :)

I guess my real point is: There are claims that man is causing climate change. And that climate change is going to be "bad".
And some politicians claim that it's THE number one priority danger facing the world.

IF all that is true...then it seems to me that Utility Companies and their jobs be damned. It needs to be the govt.'s number one mission to stop climate change. And a huge step towards that would be to have solar panels, wind power, and any other renewable energy source running independently for every home in America.

Instead...the govt. is doing just the exact OPPOSITE. :(

So somebody, somewhere is lying to us.
Either the people claiming that the Earth is doomed.
Or the people saying everything is "okay".

And in the end...they are one and the same.

Politicians TALK. But they don't really follow through. Back in 1940 when a REAL problem faced the nation...the Democrats mobilized our country for war. Rations went into effect. Car manufacturers stopped making cars and started making military vehicles. It was an emergency.

And now...they say that climate change is worse than any war or enemy.

But they do...nothing.

cap costs? interest rates are near zero and most companies are holding gazillions of $$ in cash itching to invest it wisely...

in business settings it makes more sense to use solar as the load is constant and usually only needed during the daylight hours (i.e. store is open 8am-8pm and uses pretty much constant level of electricity), so in a way you achieve 100% efficiency... (Note how most of the top 10 users are retail stores)

in residential settings (without battery storage) you achieve pretty poor efficiency as the electricity use varies greatly throughout the day...

businesses also have economies of scale, don't pay sales commissions, are able to negotiate prices better, pay lower interest rates, are able to use accounting tricks better, etc...

so comparing Walmart to residential setup is like comparing apples to oranges...

Dude you're digging a hole now trying to justify being wrong yesterday. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Very cool! I'm envious!


Lots of reasons. Pricing is only now starting to become affordable. Solar is not the best in every situation (weather, roof size, legal & permits), availability, etc. And in some places like where I live, electricity is already very cheap and sourced from renewables (Hydro, Wind, Solar, Nuclear).

Solar is hard to sell. People already get energy from natural gas and coal and don't feel the need to change. Others don't always believe it when you show the hidden costs of fossil fuels. Others just don't want the "Ugly" panels or want to pay the perceived high costs. Whatever commissions sales reps get I'm sure its well deserved.

Robbie just don't pay your power bill uvtill the power company takes you off the grid -- problem solved (the hard way). They will cut your leads on the line to the house. If you want to be extremist about it.

I get my electric and natural gas from the same utility company -- that is not an option here.

I have the power bill sitting here to be paid -- $37.47 of it is all the state allowed charges for being on the electric grid. If you are an 'official poor person' you get a $12 credit. My customer charge for gas supply is $11.75. So $49.22 a month to be connected to gas and electric. My shit is worth 4 times the value of my neighbor's house the have 4 more people shitting and we pay the same sewage bill --NOT FAIR!! Should I forgo the tap fee for sewerage and save $440/year. I don't have a choice now -- I don't have a septic field grandfathered in on this property ... A few of my neighbors do. It's a health and safety code violation to dig a hole and build an outhouse. So I am 'shit out of luck'

Next time a power line goes down I won't have to climb the utility pole or dig up the buried cable. There are certain fixed costs in life you have to pay to live in civilization. Including property taxes, income taxes, sales tax, medical tax (private insurance and government mandated Medicare contributions), and ... If they didn't charge a fuel tax all roads would be toll roads or dirt trails. How the hell would you get to your cabin?

Everyone does not want to live in a Unabomber's Cabin but that is all you get and you have to be a land squatter to live for free.

https://s7.postimg.org/kv8v8eiaz/cd4...eodore20_K.jpg

This is not Walden Pond or some Utopian pipe dream.
You might as well buy yourself a truck and fill the the back with fertilizer and gasoline because you will not be able to survive off the land in your cabin for long -- it's total bullshit.

woj is so fuckin' smart LMAO. The world passed you by and you are not smart enough to realize it.

Think about that. Coal Miner forever -- you seal your own fate.

Barry you are being a bit extreme aren't You?
Cabin? Unabomber?

WTF?!?! Lol

I live in Vegas in a 5,000 square foot home with a basketball court, a pool, Jacuzzi, and an extra house (casita) in the backyard.

Pretty sure I don't need any lectures from you on property taxes and civilization.

I'll say it again...we should all be able to generate our own clean power for free. The govt. shouldn't be getting in the way of that.
Sorry if that angers you for some strange reason.

going to get a Nissan leaf myself I think

I live on a gated estate myself... 6 acers, pool, jacuzzie, tennis court etc.. only 4300 sqft and 2+2 guest house... in the LA area.... Robbie the guys here at GFY have no understanding of the commitment it takes to cover that type of nut :2 cents:

Dude! Congrats! I should come visit the next time in Vegas. That's awesome.

Don't - they aren't very good. Consider a Chevy Bolt instead, or even better, wait until the Tesla Model 3's come out next year in 2018.

You're welcome anytime Mark. :)

You rag too much about the government like I did when I was 25.
You have it good -- WTF are you so angry about?
Like you can't afford to support the grid -- you cant afford a few thousand a year to live in society? Something isn't right.

Makes no sense sorry you are so unhappy -- at least you come off that way -- continuously.

My sarcasm is not a lecture -- you will take your attitudes to the grave with you -- so will I ...