Avoid Thailand.

Just spent 10 days there end of last year.

HORRIBLE.

Every single place we went was FULL of tourists. It is nothing like the photos you see online or in travel sites.

All the small islands and most spots are all full of tourists. Tons of Russians and Muslims (no offense) but somebody in the middle east has declared Thailand a vacation haven for Muslims.

Sure, the strip clubs are fun. But that's it. Otherwise it's Disneyland traffic and insane crowds.

Seriously, worst trip ever.

You are much better off going to Bali or Singapore or Philippines.

Thailand has been blown apart by so much tourism I just wanted to puke. Those quiet stunning beaches you see online... picture them with about 10,000 tourists walking on them. I'm not kidding. 10,000.

The taxis and the 'tuk tuks' are a fucking rip off. Years ago the cabs were cheap, but now, they are mob owned and are the most expensive cabs in the entire planet. (not making that up, google it.) The prices are same if not higher than the States.

The food in the small outside vendors is priced cheap, but most restaurants are priced sky high same as USA. Gone are the days of the $10 lobster. A lobster meal will cost you about $ 70 to $90 for a big one. There are many places to eat that are affordable and the food is very good. But that's it.

OH, and I forgot. 1 person dies every 6 hours in Thailand because of motorcycle deaths. It's a fucking madhouse. The traffic is insane and out of control. So easy to get hurt or killed by the traffic. 1000 times worse than any city traffic you will ever experience. Google that one too... worst traffic in the world. Bangkok traffic death capital of the planet.

The country is one big wallet fuck. Scams around every corner from over priced rooms to over priced food and cabs.

Pattaya disgusting, dirty, filthy, only cold beer, hookers, some tiny crowded beaches.

Bangkok, filthy beyond belief. Bad air, crowded, ugly, insane traffic.

Phuket, over crowded, full of poverty and tourists. Same shops and stores on every block for miles.
Islands, all over crowded, from the smelly old boats packed with tourists, to the over crowded islands, all selling shit food and post cards.

Rent a motorcycle and risk your life. No joke. And I'm an seasoned city motorcycle rider w/25 years experience and I've never seen anything like what I saw in the streets of Thailand.

Bali was Heaven compared to Thailand.

I highly regretted the trip and will never go back.

I needed a vacation when I left Thailand.

Just writing all of us this gave me horrible memory flashbacks. I need a drink.

lots of cheap fun in Thailand :thumbsup

LovinNothin, did you aim to hit any locals type places? or was your aim to hit touristy spots?

Sounds to me like you experienced nothing of "real" Thailand, and you probably spent time in every shithole tourist spot, like anywhere in the world, aim for the real deal locals style, tourist shit anywhere sucks ass imo

i have been flirting with the idea of taking my boys 3 to Thailand...away from tourist areas. and getting a spot within walking distance to the ocean. So we can swim daily. Have wifi. A maid to help cook and sometimes watch the boys.

Now im starting to think it is not as affordable as i thought. :(

I stayed 1,5 year in Thailand. LovinNothin describes the places i Always avoid.
But that is what you get for a complete vacation on a tourist spot in high season.

So can be even the small Island Koh Chang depends on the village you stay.
The first beach is full of tourist, but another beach is only backpackers and more for long stay.
Never been to Phuket. Went to Phi Phi and if you stay near the center it is full of tourist.

I travel alone and basic cost:

- appartment / Hotel / Studio 300 - 650 euro per month
(i sat for 300 euro at the beach in a small villa)
- gym - 40 USD p monyh
- Phone - 15 USD p month
- Motobike - 100 USD a month
- International Insurance - 150 USD a month
- food / drink - 10 USD a day

And than you can live on the beach and relax.
If you go out more, it will cost more. But i hardly could spent 2000 USD a month without risk of liver damage.
I have friends that live with 500 USD a month, but prepared for no hot water, small place for just 1 bed. never take more than 2 beers.

If you have children and want good education at an international school you must stay the places where are more foreigners. But that is on most places the case. So you must look what that will cost per child.

Its been about 20 years since i last went to Thailand so things will have changed. I used to stop over there on the way to Penang in Malaysia. I love the people and the food and used to stay in the Oriental or Mandarin Hotels.

On one occasion just as i arrived in Bangkok i developed very bad toothache, i found a British expats dentist who drilled out the offending tooth and stuffed it with a temporary filling. The equipment they used was archaic, like something from the stone age, but after what seemed like a lifetime they managed to do a root canal. Dentists back in the UK could not believe what they did and how long it lasted. I was just happy to be out of there and with the codeine tablets without pain. Be prepared for a culture shock!

i just want a nice place..3 bedrooms or so. wifi..live in maid...away from tourists. i will hire a math tutor..or science tutor..or do myself if i have to.
near the ocean..beach.
just so i can show them another country..i dont drink daily, i drink 1 time a week or sometimes not at all for months...depends on what im focused on or who is in town

That's a good report! Jeez, fuck that shithole!

Michael Olsen is in Phuket.

Been ePassported?

Sid what happened to Canada?

go to Panama, for about 5k in bank and panama company + 2k per person, you can get panama passport
health care is cheap and very good

search for Panama Friendly Countries program

well i am doing both.

i mainly live i thaikand in the "shithole Pattaya" but I like it there. it always depends WHERE you live in Pattaya and how much you have in your pocket.


I also have a house in spain (Mallorca) where I am mainly during the summer.

if you have 9000 US in Thailand you live like a king (except you are going to make party every night)

a nice house in a good area with 3 bedroom and swimming pool will cost you around 1000-1500 US per month - but that is already upper class.
you also can find houses east from sukhumvit road for less but I would not want to be there because many infrastructure is missing.

i would say with 4-5 K you can live there a quite good life in between ftriendly and open mind people. pattaya is here also different from the rest of thailand because it is the fastest growing city in the world and i have only one time met a person what is born there. so very multiculti !

spain 8and especially Mallorca) is a wonderful island and i love to be here in spring and summer.
but it is FAR more expensive. I wish I could live here with 9 K a month.

in the last it is a question of personal preferences. i have seen whole thailand and it is a beautiful country - no matter where you go - but i ended up in pattay and i still do not complain that desicion.

Haven't logged in here in a very long time. Thought I would chime in on this one. I've lived in Thailand for 21 years. You can live as cheap or as lavish as you want. There is a lot of wrong information in this thread.

1. Each city follows different rules for immigration. What immigration asks for in Phuket may be different than what is required in Chiang Mai, even though on paper the rules appear to be all the same. Interpretation is everything. The same applies for Thai embassies and consulates, they all interpret things differently. This can drive you crazy, as not only do they all follow different rules, but the rules are always changing. See #2 as this will be a huge help unless you go with #8.

2. You can work with a visa agent to find a solution. It's easy to stay long term if you don't mind paying a little money to an agent to help you. Don't let anyone tell you differently. You just have to search around to find the right agent in the city you're in.

3. Living on an island sucks. Don't waste your time. Not to mention they have a lot of power outages and you can get trapped there in bad weather, no power, food, water, etc. It happens.

4. What do you want to look at, beach, mountains, or city? Head south for beaches, north for mountains, or Bangkok for a big city. Mountains are the cheapest, with the most chill locals. The closer you get to water, the worst the locals and foreigners get. Bangkok is expensive, noisy, crowded, dirty, and full of desperate locals. Unless you love big dirty cities, avoid it. I personally prefer it up north, which is better for my family.

5. Don't even think about taking your family to Pattaya. Pattaya is the asshole of Asia. If there is ever a place that needs to be hit by a tsunami and rebuilt, it's this city.

6. Since you will be taking your family, I would look into safer areas like Chiang Mai. Less petty crime there, cheap, and you can get around ok without knowing the language. Chiang Rai is a slower version of Chiang Mai, and Chiang Mai is already pretty slow. Though, it's a good place for a family. Most of the tourists there are Americans and Chinese, very few Russians, Indians and Arabs. However, that could change.

7. You do not have to have a business or have connections. That's absolute nonsense. There are other ways to stay. See #8.

8. Each child can enroll in school. Each child can then have 1 parent visa. The international schools can help with this. It's very easy, lasts for 1 year each, and is renewed. For example, if you have 2 children, both of them would get education visas, and you and your wife would piggy back on theirs, your wife on one child, you on the other. This will be your best solution, and it will last until they graduate. By that time you may be of age to get a retirement visa.

9. Thailand is unforgiving. You're mostly on your own there. While crime against foreigners does happen, it happens mostly in Bangkok, the beach cities, and islands. It is rare up north, but it does happen. The police are all on the take, so if you drive any vehicle you want to make sure to get a proper license, but you can start with a international drivers permit from your home country. However, if you do get a ticket, it's only a few dollars to clear. There is no point system for a license here, which is a good and a bad thing. Thailand is NUMBER TWO in the world for road deaths. The roads are chaos and deadly. It may not be the craziest place you've ever seen, but it is the most (2nd) deadly.

10. Forget everything you think you know, Thailand is another planet. Nothing makes sense here and it never will. The longer you're here, the more it confuses you. There is no logic, just 65 million (mostly uneducated) people living for the moment, which can be good or bad depending on the situation.

I live in the north and spend around $2000 USD per month, sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more. I own a condo in one of the nicest buildings in the city, eat western food or cook at home, and have a normal life. You can't live that cheap in Bangkok, but you can in the north with no problem. If you're spending more than that, you're drinking and whoring most of it away. Normal life generally isn't expensive here.

Good luck.

well to run a business INSIDE thailand is not the best idea except you have a few millions and really good connections.

but maybe you do not know about another aspect:

thailand is a high tax country and it is on the "whitelist".

it is also not easy to get a working permit for a foreigner there BUT you can own offshore comapnies as many as you want.

the thailaw ruels that this offshore income is tacxable in thailand as soon as you bring it to thailand in the year when the profit was made.

if you send this profit from your offshore to thailand on the 1. of january i.e. it can mot be made in this year.
this money is COMPLETELY and legal TAX FREE !!!

so there are indeed other factors than only sun and happyness what are speaking for thailand.

Jeez, it was in 2009 :helpme

very correct and true except the information about Pattaya.

I don´t know when you have been there the last time but I can tell you always when i am for 2 or 3 month in Europe and go back the city have changed.

the tsunami you are waiting for is already on the way. Pattaya want to change and have to change because this city is growing that fast that all the infrastructure can not stand mass tourism.

they tried to compensate the missing europeans with russins - after the russians could not come anymore they changed to the chinese market but chinese come in such big groups and only driving in big busses and walking in groups it was a choas.

so last year i met some american guy near my house and we were talking a bit.
he told me that he is looking for a big piece of land his company want to buy what is empty since centuries.
than he told me that he is representing sands casinos from las vegas....ohohoh

3 weeks ago my lawyer told me about rumours that they will change the law after the next elections 2018 and Pattaya will get as the only city in Thailand a casino permit.

there is already a plan existing for the complete remodulation of walking street. all buildings at the sea side will go.

even the fresh made city harbour is closed again befor it was open because they are going to make it bigger even for big ships.

so yes - Pattaya have changed alot and will change faster than every other city in the world. and whatever happens - i can be happy because i own a highclass villa and 2 top condos in 5-star hotel building just 200-300 meters aways from the future sands pattaya - i think i can´t complain my desicion :-)

:)

$9k is not my game.

I rent a $600-800 2 bed-room in Italy and spend about 1,5k extra / mo. Alfa Romeo 147, family of 4.

I am fucking simple.

That's why I was thinking Thailand would be cheaper. With all the negatives described I say fuck that shithole twice. Italy FTW.

We have a few rental properties there and I still think it's a sewer. You can sprinkle gold over a pile of poop but it's still a pile of poop.

They were talking about tearing down the sea side of walking street 15 years ago. I'll believe it when it happens.

As far as a casino..... maybe someday, but not while the junta is running things. There won't be an election in 2018. 2019 or 2020 if they are lucky.

Be careful with what you own there. If there is a casino and someone wants your property for less than you're willing to sell it, that's how foreigners fly off of building there. A casino could be a blessing or a curse, you never know with this place.

You can rent the same in northern Thailand. If you don't mind living outside the city just a little you can rent a large house, 3 - 4 bedrooms, for that price or less.

Heard of that, right, just wasnt sure if it really works. Does it work with international schools only or any local school too?

It should work for both. However, the difference is the international schools will help you do it, where a public school might not. In that case, a visa agent should be able to assist you through the red tape.

well my house not in that problem and it is safe because the association has in total 43 houses in the same private settlement with a very great management.

as i said it is actually more than a rumour because i own also a condo in the Amari residence building at pratumnak and one of the managers told me the same thing.

if you are interessted on that topic here is a link to a linkedin article what is written from my lawyer.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/great-pattaya-casinos-dr-ulrich-eder

btw. the planned sands casino is at thaphraya road right opposite from the new grand carribean residences. and around that spot (what was empty for many many years) have opened TONNS of new businesses, bars and restaurants just in the past 5 month.

for me that looks like more than a rumour and I am also pretty sure that this have to do with the new king.

where in Italy you may find massage for 8 euros or simple dinner on the street for 2 euros ?

Thailand is cheap, could be also expensive if you want...
I may understand though your love for Europe, as similar culture, working infrastrcuture (in Italy ? well....ha ha ha ) etc...but Thailand has its charm too...
I only have good memories of Thailand and people there were truly friendly, honest and nice :-)
just avoid tourist traps in Thai and you will be fine.

Thanks for the link. That sounds like a lot of what if, maybe, and could be. Perhaps someday, but not while the junta is running the country. Like knocking down half of Walking Street, they have been talking casinos for years, but they couldn't even get it done when the Kunplomes held positions of Mayor and Governor of Chonburi, with their father running the entire region as a mob boss, and there is no way it's going to happen under junta rule. Though, someday it may happen.

One thing the Thais are famous for is speculation and land rumors. It drives property values. The train is going to have a station here, they are going to build a new airport there, a new mall is going up here, so buy now while you still can. Most of it never happens. You can look back through the news and see report after report, official ones, of even the government saying things are going to happen in certain areas, and they never do. Lots of pipe dreams and empty promises here. I hope they do build a casino in Pattaya, it will probably increase property value, but I'll believe it when I see it. It would also probably be the kiss of death for Pattaya, a city that already can't deal with the amount of people and traffic there. Now imagine casino traffic and tourists on top of what's already there. Good luck with that.

Well, mate, I come from Ukraine, I have had enough crap and shady shit - I do really value Northern Italy and it's infrastructure.

:)
most of the world is shady, Thais are at least friendly, hospitable and buddhist ;-) and Thailand is a place where you wont freeze to death never :P
not sure though what would you expect from a country where average salary is like 200-300 euros and people believe in ghosts :-) ?
still charming place though....
Italy sounds like burreacratic disaster for me, but also charming place with great food and prolly nice people - the more south, the more friendly probably :)

You are a EU citizen as I understand, I can't get where is your problem with Italy. I dealt with tons of paperwork in Poland, insane level of paperwork but still it's more clear than ANY Ukrainian even for citizens. EU passport opens all the doors. That's what I am working on.

By the way, there is another option, live in the Southern Austria. Klagenfurt or Villah. I hate the idea of learning German tho, but it can be useful in Northern Italy too.

i told you, look at panama

or stay in poland, poland is free of muslims
still cheap and safe
internet is cheap, food is cheap (compared to EU) flat rental especially in not mayor cities is ridiculous cheap


only climate is bad :)

you did tons of papework, because you are from ukraine, but probably only in poland you are allowed to get legal work and stay for long time legal (if you buy polish card)
probably thats why you had to fill many documents

Chile and Ecuador are both welcoming and fairly easy to get residency.

Cuenca, Ecuador has a decent size expat community.

I would rather say - Poland is full of xenophobic idiots and retards, that usually vote for political parties like they vote...
real estate rent market is a joke, not enough flats to let, (almost) impossible to find anything for short term like months...also (or especially?) in smaller cities ...on top of that its not cheap at all (maybe if you compare it with UK, France or Holland) and you have pay to additionally community fees which are small or non existent in other countries..
During the last 8 years I lived like in 8 countries...
South america and carribean is a interesting choice but it also has some flaws
agree, food in Poland is OK/ decent, but worse than food in Albania, Spain, Italy and few other countries..at least IMO
also, ever country is "safe", if you are not stupid...and if its not Syria, Iraq, and maybe Salwador (and few others)
I would rather have diverse people around me than xenophobic idiots who know shit about outside world, dont know foreign languages and their only travel was to hotel in Egypt (if they did travel at all - as those who never did are probably are like those idiots/hooligans that had "battle for kebab" in January this year in north of Poland....)
but to each his own I guess

I agree that maybe for you it wasnt easy, but the point here is different.
Italy and Spain are one of the worst countries in Europe when it goes to corruption and burreacracy (ok, lets notcount Ukraine and Russia here), its written in their mentality..very deep
try to open company in Italy, Spain and France...it is a joke

oh yeah, xenophobic idiots

yea, so look at germany, sweden, "we love muslims, we will live with terrorist together and its ok" right?
there are no xenophobic idiots ? go to sweeden or to germany as i said

month ago i spoke with one germany guy from munich in the club, who love comes to poland because here are no muslims and people are friendly


in poland there are tons of free and cheap flats, you don't know hat are you talking about
no possible to find flat for 6 months??? are you kidding? tons of studdents rent flats, rooms just for few months, i myself rented flat for 6 months for two person, in centre of wroclaw for $400 + additional costs.

Well, this is too generic. I can't tell what are the procedures to open a company there, but in Poland it's very easy. It's much easier bookkeeping and reporting than any ex USSR country. I suspect that Italy / Spain might have some 'southern' complications but is it THAT bad I can't tell. I know there is a shortage of jobs in Italy and young IT Italians come to Poland to seek jobs even. Heard in Italy finding a job happens via connections, gotta know people, and partially it's because many get paid in cash to avoid high tax . . .

I mention Italy because, generally speaking, i don't like Asia, Thailand comes in due to some rumours I heard medicine and schooling is fine and it's not that expensive . . . But after some comments about 9k budget and stuff I have signed off the Thailand idea.

Knowing the system from the inside is required to compare Italy to Austria. I mentioned southern Austria. Been there many times.

I would agree, since I speak Polish already, Poland is not a bad choice. It's fairly cheap comparing to France, Spain, Italy . . . I had a talk to my Italian buddy about moving to Italy to live permanently, checked out local jobs even. He mentioned nice people, food, weather but asked me if that would be enough :)

I'm used to a local climate already, but mentally I'm still not happy - it rains a ton and clouds can stay up for weeks, no sun light!

There is no such thing like 'buying' a Polish card, but I know what you mean. Legal work gives an opportunity to obtain a residence permit, and the eventual outcome ( if things go well ) would be a permanent residence and a passport later. That shit takes time. It's not like Canadian immigration or winning a Green Card... I'm in this game long term.

Northern countries . . . well, been there but never liked or wanted to try, this is another case where I did not like weather, people and languages to consider.

Poland is definitely very specific due to a serious religious impact. 2 hours a week in the elementary school, it's not mandatory, but every Polish kid takes those classes. Families go to church every Sunday and religious events are taken very seriously.

Some xeno-stuff happens. People are VERY traditional.

Apartment wise - big town no problem at all, never lived in a small one, but generally speaking 6 mo to 1 year rental contract is considered a standard for a long term. Short term happens too, but pricing can be higher.

you will always see what you want to see :-)
your mindset will lead you to seeing exact things that will only confirm your mindset...
ever heard about google suggestions during searching ? you may spend months browsing sites prooving that earth is flat, but does it mean that is right ?
I prefer to treat humans as humans, and call them by their names (ie: Ahmed, Carlos, John, Jan), not their religions...
and the religions and people that blindly follow them - I dislike them.
by short term I meant 3 months, not 6 months :-) 6 months is long term for me :-)
and I mean flats, not rooms :-) have different experience than you, maybe because I was telling upfront that I'm only interested in short term renatl like 3 months, and I wasnt lying ? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I never had mental contact with that part of my country, yet it appears that it is "strong and doing fine":winkwink::winkwink::winkwink::winkwink::winkwink: :winkwink:
I am from other fairytale, but I have nothing against religious Poles if they only let live the other ppl :)

dude when I came back from spain last year I was surprised how retarded polish renter's market is and how expensive flats are :-)
trust me. searched for something decent (and that would be also cheaper than in Germany, Spain or Italy) for like 2 months, finally left Poland again :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh