Of Course Not, now move along, nothing to see here !!:helpme

And I will bet all your big earners are buying traffic from you. To sell what?



What has mainstream cinema got to do with porn?



True. But you can't sell porn to people getting free porn. Seems you agree with me.



Again agreeing with me. You can't sell porn to people who can jerk off to free porn. Whether you can sell ad space to non-porn companies is another business, not the adult business. Whether it will be as profitable as selling porn is another debate. 1-100 selling a $30 membership certainly made more money that 1-10,000 clicks selling another product.

Once mainstream advertisers on porn sites, the adult business is screwed. Unless people can afford to produce content just to give it away for free to get views. Which is what some Youtubers can do.

This is about the adult business, so unless you can show your ad space sales generate a better income than porn did. We will stick to our stats.

There will always be money in porn. Just not as much as there used to be.

paul, WHY should i prove myself with showing you my stats ?
i do not want you or anybody else is copying me.

i give a flying fuck if you believe me or not - the people who have to know it know it and that is fine for me.

i just wanted to say that it is in everybody´s own hands to make money or not make money. and next to the numbers of loosers there are still a lot of winners in that biz - but they do not follow the usual logic. and the do not try to make the biz as they did 15 years ago.

i am 20 years in that biz and you really do not have to tell me the difference between yesterday and today. i made my thing yesterday and still do it today and i will do it also tomorrow as long as i have 2 eyes and a working brain.

and btw. 30% of my last year income came from mainstream. my goal for this year are 35-40% - and yes i made 100% of that with porn users.

Listen to me my little friend, you stay in the present, but future can come to you fast and you won't know what to do in the future. It could be happen. But if you see my hand you can be patient and you will see this world from another side like other man. You will come in new world with new passion and thoughts.

Me neither in that case. That's who I thought it might be initially. Hope your'e well Aaron :thumbsup

Cams, cams, cams cams cams.

1% of webmasters control 99% of the earnings

Because without proof we are left with our impressions of what we see. Which make your claims look like Bullshit.

So yes you do need to prove your points. Or look like a bullshitter.

https://www.trafficfabrik.com/ isn't that impressive.

i don´t care what you think
i just know what i know and there is no reason to force anyone to believe.

there are enough people here who know me good enough to know that i am not
bullshitting around.

but sure - for people like you it is always easier to make circumstances or others
guilty for the own badluck. hope you still can buy enough tissues to dry your tears ;-)

So, what you are saying is that mainstream ad buyers are making you 30% of your business revenue now?

That being correct, porn traffic has money to spend --- it is a market segment looking for a product worth paying for ...

=========

From what I can see from publicly identifiable data thommy has substantial ad delivery traffic with about 50% to the German speaking market.

Paul does raise a valid point about website UX -- you really do need to update the public facing part of your website's appearance -- if you want to attract onboarding of new customers. Contemporary design and UX is what creates customer confidence. Even when you do have a good value proposition -- potential new customers have to want to look at what you have to offer.


You don't close sales by baffling customers with bullshit -- confusion does not create confidence. Most importantly, people buy from their friends that they trust.

Same for winning debates or arguments I suppose.

And I don't care what you think.

The problem for you is, there are potential customers here who are reading what you write and thinking it's bullshit.

When ad sales at a few dollars per 1,000 of traffic that converts 1-10,000 replace paysite sales at 1-300. You know the industry is in decline.

Thommy now has to target mainstream because of the decline of porn. He's not alone.

There will be a huge market for user made porn --but-- if the maker cannot distribute and monetize it, it will go nowhere. There's your next disruption.

Leverage it :2 cents:

Real sexy movies will be in the future

Distribution and monetizing is the easy part. Getting couples to go public and produce something watchable for the money sites are prepared to spend is the hard part.

To date, it never happened. The number of real amateur sites is low, the number of them making a lot of money is lower.

All the couples appearing on cam sites proves they know the best place to earn money is on cams. How many couples on your sites?

Forget about now.
Forget about traditional distribution channels.

When the robot has taken your job, and the rent is due ...

There are 4 billion people that are not even in the game yet.

Tomorrow's world is in SaaS and PaaS. People that don't see that are going to be collecting government handouts in 10 years. When something is broken you salvage the reusable parts (if any) then just toss remains. Leverage the core assets and move on.

1% of that 4 billion would love to fuck on camera if you could pay them enough. And there's the problem, you can't. So they go on sites like MFC, Chaturbate and not Xlovecam.

I agree about the part of robots. Just as well I made money when we could afford to pay couples enough to fuck on camera. Your mistake was in suggesting it with a guy who has done it and knows how well it sells around to reply back.

No worries about robots for me and the home is bought and paid for. :thumbsup

you gay bro :2 cents:

If you could pay them enough? WTF you talkin' about Willis?
What do you mean by 'enough'?


Right, you went to Eastern Europe where you could afford to make money on the cheap and brag about your experience?

Take a nap or something

Good luck to you ...

well the main business is done in these days from media buyers and they do not really care what they sell as long they can sell it.

it is about 80% german speaking traffic from germany austria and switzerland also rising numbers in international and thats why i started to read here to understand this international market a bit better.

well i do not look for customers - that´s maybe the point why i do not stick too much energy in the outfront. i spend most of my energy in the backend logic, fraud protection and helping publishers and advertisers to create a win win win situation.

the daily budgets in our system are actually 30 times higher as what we can deliver.
our network is also not an open one. when you looked a bit around you can see that no publisher can signup as they can do in other networks. the chance to get in is 50:1 after a very hard approval.

maybe one day when i am totally satisfied with the backend I will possibly make the outfront a bit more modern. but in fact we are not "modern" - this is a good old CPC network with no dangerous techniques or tricky and complicated stuff.
and it is doing more than fine as it is. to be honest - the speed in growth we had in the last 5 years is already a bit too much for me. i always prefer a slower and constant growing.

I would think that your back-end could remain PC compatible as your customers are media buyers.

However, to increase visibility to new customers and markets -- I would want a responsive modern-looking site. First impressions do really matter IMHO -- most people are pretty shallow.

You have a real good position for the search 'erotik ads' but that is a German term and I am guessing that is from your German text and German traffic click-through.

What's it take to cut and paste into a bootstrap template as a landing page? Buy a few images.

trafficfabrik.com/why-us.html
The responsive landing page does not have to be your index.

Just make a roadmap and phase in the changes over time.

It's real difficult to do web advertising for B2B. You could also 'bird dog' your customers -- giving some free add traffic to then as a reward for new signups from places other than Germany. Like 5M/ads free or whatever you can pay to acquire a new customer maybe its 50K/ads IDK. You have historical records of signups to annual and lifetime revenue.

I am just tossing out some approaches ...

thanks for that´s hints but as i said I am too busy with so many other things that I can not spend time in that now.
And to get customers is also not really my problem because I´ve got more than enough and it would not be good for the network when at the end every advertiser can get only 10% of what he expects to receive.

i have here a very different philosophy and 80% of all advertisers are already since years with me.

I know that the whole thing could be MUCH bigger as it is now but as I said it is already quite big and I am on my limits (my day have only 24 hours).
i really spend most of my time explaining publishers and advertisers the difference between a CPM and a CPC network (because the difference is HUGE).

i mean you see how people like paul think about that and what kind of wrong calculation he makes based on wrong informations. he thinks a 1:300 rate is something what tubes can not make - but 1:300 is not a good CVR it it bad and every advertiser would become poor if he would have to count with such a freaky signuprate (depend on the product).

but there are not many porn products in the market anymore what makes a user buying.
on the other hand these users have much more as only porn budgets - it just needs experience and ideas to get on to them.
but it is possible and it makes sense to see a customer with his complete buying power and not only with the 0,29%.

i give you an example:
i have a customer since 3 or 4 years who is promoting online gaming (casino with play money). people get a number of coins free every day but when they are lost they either have to wait or they can buy more.
at the end of the past years we made a "life-value" calculation over the past 3 years and I was same surprised as him to find out that the best paying users we´ve send from porn sites have been WOMEN !!! in fact the conversions in total are 70% from guys but 65% of the complete revenue was from women.

i have another customer since a few years what is selling car tires when the season changes. they are spending a nice 6-digit budget every years with us and they would not do it if that would not work.
we are selling single holidays, phones, e-books and much much more.

people like paul are in their old-fashioned world - thinking that porn is only good to sell porn. but that would mean that free TV could only sell horses in a western movie.
this is not true and i proved it already.
and that is why my main energy is going into that because what we got now are not even 0,1% of the existing products what you can sell on a porn site.
my newest client will promote plastic surgery and i am 100% sure that this will work when we show titts and they sell them.

you see i have so many goals that some of them have to go at the end of the line :-)

I reached the point of no (or too little) return in my construction business in 1998 when adding workers or accepting marginal work to keep them busy. Sometimes, more activity and more revenue yields little or no return.

I'm jealous if you are near satisfied with what you have built :)

What I'm saying is. Getting couples to fuck in front of a camera is easy, all you have to do is pay them enough. Enough is relative and as a cam site person, you should know what enough is. How much is enough for a French girl, as opposed to a US girl, Czech girl or Phillipino, to do live cam shows? You should know, as it's your business, what couples want to do live cam.

I know what couples want. $500 to $1,000 is a good figure for a Western couple to do a scene. Some might charge more, some charge less. Then there's the cameraman and his costs unless you're delusional enough to think they can shoot it themselves. Think double to treble the model's costs.

So as I said getting the content is easy. The problem is selling it at a level where it makes a profit. Amateur has always been a smaller niche to Glamour, High Production and Teens. The problem is ease of producing content. The market would be flooded if publishers were willing to spend "enough" to encourage amateurs to perform and pay someone to shoot it.

Or are you going to say I have no experience creating content? It's easier to get couples today than 20 years ago.

I came to Czech because of the quality and quantity of girls. You could pay American girls enough, I could pay UK girls enough.

In a moving market anyone not looking for customers. Is an idiot. Look up basic marketing strategies to see why you should be.

Or you could just be hiding the truth.

As for doing all the work yourself, one band talk.

The easiest way to prove you're right. Is to link us to pages where you can sell porn surfers non-porn products via adverts. They don't have to be your ads. I appreciate that as a one man band you might be under time pressure, but you must be aware of what your competitors are doing.

Of course, you can fall back on the "I don't care what you think" excuses. But as you can see others are replying to you. Some might want to buy traffic. :winkwink:

Paul, with all due respect, one of the virtues of a man should be to know when to shut up.

hire someone :upsidedow not here to do the math for you

Tell that to Thommy and Barry. :1orglaugh

Pointing out the BS in their posts is too easy.

Thommy said he was looking to move 30% of his traffic sales to the mainstream, he needs new customers to do that. The moving market explains why everyone needs new customers if only to raise the price of a limited supply product. But mainly to safeguard against existing customers moving or declining.

Barry said the next big thing, with something we were doing 40 years. And making money at, just not as much as other niches. He then makes the excuse of getting the content. Bullshit and I pointed it out.

Well let's say I know for a fact that one of them is certainly not bullshitting.

Besides there's logical fallacy in your argumentation - do you believe that if you get a thousand visitors to your site daily there's no new customers? Well that would be a wild assumption wouldnt It?

And how about a repeating customer that's presented a new product? Is this a new point of sale?

So instead of wild assumptions and ad hominem non sense you may want to consider the fact that the rest of the world won't stop waiting for the famous P. MARKHAM'S badge of approval.

1) Running an escort agency in a big city
2) Running a brothel
3) ... a stripclub
4) ... being a high end escort
5) ... being that escorts husband

Dear oh dear Paul.

Still telling peeps that have achieved so much more than you ever did how stoopid they are ?

The failed pornograher dishing out advice like he is some kind of business guru ???

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I suppose you will be waxing lyrical of the terrible scourge of migration next.

:thumbsup

that´s why try to do things with as less people as possible :-)

i would not be a businessman if i would be ever totally satisfied but when i´ve started trafficfabrik 5 years ago i had a 5 years plan and i was ending up every year FAR over the plan - so it can not be that wrong.

the biggest problem for me is to find the RIGHT people because i am doing this with a vision and with my heart and with more than 20 years experience in nearly everything what you can do in our biz. so in one thing paul is right when he says i am a one-man band - but i am a one-man-band in the important parts of my biz what i do not let touch anyone else.

paul i am long enough in that business to know that it is a nogo to bring partners or informations about them into such a discussion. not even our advertisers knaow exactly where theirs ads are shown. and that they are still here and becomming more and more proves, that this is working (what you will doubt also).

i told you many times that i am professional in that. i studied marketing and i live since 40 years from my knowledge much better than the most people do.

i was aware that when I started it. that´s why i do not have to be afraid of competition.
i have never copied things - i always did them my very own way.

btw. i am NOT a one-man-band as you think. I am only a one man band in the important
things. I do have people working with me in programming, accounting, server administration and that stuff and I also have a bunch of own webmasters employed who are building websites and increasing the traffic. i have also people working in our own media-buyers-team I have also special programmers for databases and 2 mathematicians only for algorythm perfection all these people get their works and visions from me directly. but i do not have a single sales guy or publishers scout.

i know - all want to buy good traffic. there is no limit in the demand of that.
that´s why i do not need to look for byers - I have them already and if i tell them i can send them twice as much tomorrow they will buy it and send me roses.

you always think business is done the way you did it and 99% of the rest is doing it. but you can´t compare me with that. i was always different and unique and that´s why i never had a problem to make money and as long my head is on my neck i will never have this problem.

Here is your uniform...( well except #4)

https://images.halloweencostumes.com...ze-costume.jpg

Good luck....

Whatever Paul -- good luck to you.

Thommy, sell your vision to your employee and offer him a reason other than play "keep your job." Truth is, high level employees cost.

I moved to mainstream programming as well for my full time job. Pays way better. I still do projects here and there though. Seems like models are increasingly becoming independent. They are using cam and clip sites and have no need of producers.

It's sad the state of technology in the adult industry though. It feels like the dark ages compared to mainstream programming.

Don't make me dig up that old flame son lol

Don't tell me the hun is out of business lol

Does he still post out in public?

I'm trying to remember who started these forums. If I'm not mistaken, he use to run that 2-3 cent per click thing back in the day.