Some statements are so ignorant they deserve no response.

it's to complicating for the average joe

I'm prepared to wait 20 minutes for a payment to confirm if it means I don't have to pay $160 US dollars in fees just to receive my money.

https://i.imgur.com/62tQO9Z.png

You still have to cash out that money...how much does it cost to cash out that sum providing you find the customers willing to jump the extra hoops and pay the added fees in the first place...you are just focusing on a part of the transaction that is free...

My exchange, btc markets, allows me to trade BTC into AUD of that size for 0.7% (look here).

Note that this also bypasses PayPal's currency conversion fees (it charges a premium over the market rate).

For example, PayPal's current conversion displays that in order for me to reach 1,000 GBP, I need to pay $1,788.69 AUD. XE.com shows that the current market rate for 1,000 GBP is actually $1704.26 AUD. That means that the PayPal transfer above would have cost me an additional 84 dollars per every 1,000 GBP I withdraw (or thereabouts, I'm doing a reverse measurement for ease.)

https://i.imgur.com/DxU0Y69.png

With over 3,000 GBP withdrawn, I would have paid an additional $252 AUD in exchange fees for that transfer. That's $190 USD at today's market rates.

So yeah, that PayPal withdrawal cost me a total of $350 USD. Getting Bitcoin and selling it on a local market would have cost me 0.7% of the total transfer amount. Somewhere around $30 USD. Maybe an extra $1 for the Bitcoin transfer.

$31 vs $350? I think I know which one I'd rather be paying.

proof this guy ^^ doesnt even have a clue how the fees or "hoops" works

I cashout BTC to $$ with super low fee and none of these so-called hoops

just checked, for the $4200usd (3200 gbp) my exchange would charge $10 to sell btc to usd, then free withdraw to bank

so what exactly are these fees and "extra hoops" can you please specify bitcoin guru crucifissio. Also please let us know how often you are transacting with bitcoins, so we can know your exact super high guru level of bitcoining.

Thank you

https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/a...ccount-faq2316


"Log in to your PayPal account, enter the amount you want to withdraw, and select the bank account to receive the money. We securely transfer the amount from your PayPal balance into your bank account at no cost to you."


the extra hoop is the whole bitcoin thing...

When you have usd in coinbase/gemini also is transferred to bank at no cost to you

and what are these hoops again please? specifiy

99.9% of all customers do not have bitcoin...they have paypal and credit card...

focus now...

they HAVE PP and CC but not bitcoin <---what they dont have

bitcoin...the extra hoop that brings no advantage whatsoever to the customer, but makes them jump through an extra hoop <----(funding bitcoin)

normal transaction:

click on pay...
(1 step)

bitcoin transaction

fund account
click on pay
(notice the 2 steps instead of 1)

do you get it now? normal people, 99.9999% of them, do not use bitcoin as a storage of value...they use regular money...they already have funded CC and Paypal linked to it...get it?

If you sell REAL customers a product or service you want to make the payment process an EASY one for EVERYDAY customers.

Anyone that deals with sales conversions understands this. If you want to go fishing in a puddle -- I should encourage this ... One less real competitor in the consumer sales marketplace :)

Mobil carrier payments would be an example of convenience at a high processing discount.

You price your cost of customer acquisition and your processing transaction costs into the selling price. Why doesn't Walmart accept Bitcoin? ROFLMAO at your illogic.

If only 0.02% of your current or potential customers have Bitcoin to spend right now you will go broke.

If I were receiving the funds in my native currency, that would be the case. I am not though, which means you have to pay a high fee for the currency transfer.

Maybe I didn't make it clear in the OP, but the purpose of Cryptos that I'm talking about are for B2B transactions, not B2C. Cryptos have issues in those environments, but it's not the case in the B2C world.

open a free GBP account with your bank...I have a USD one a Euro one and a CHF one and my local currency is dinar...I send 1000$ to my account I get 1000$ cash...1000CHF I get 1000CHF...

also b2b or b2c, both are customers...the one paying the other is a customer...and 99.99999% of them do not store money in bitcoin or chickens or gold...

Just add 5% onto your paypal charge -- have a nice day.
If you really think that in a b2b situation people will pay Bitcoin -- offer it with no surcharge and see what happens. If you are in a niche market where people have Bitcoin or some other digital currency maybe it will work (doubtful)

product = 100
PayPal surcharge = 5
Total =105

World commerce should be facilitated through the World Bank or other NGO entity offered for that purpose. But it's not. Protectionist trade, blame Trump, whatever ...

Just do business in Australia -- problem solved :upsidedow

I do not use GBP. I use AUD.

Regardless of whether I trade the AUD at PayPal or at my local bank, I'm being charged a premium on the market rate for the currency exchange.

What do you not understand about the concept of being paid in a foreign currency resulting in a much higher fee for the end-user than Bitcoin would cost?

You've also not responded to the fact that PayPal are charging me out of the ass for that transfer. $160 USD to send money from one account to another: that's insane.

walk in to a bank and say "I want to open a GBP account to receive GBP" also known as a foreign currency account...then exchange at normal rates...

you act like paypal exchange is the only option there is...you can change the currency online with your bank.....

Btw speaking about how awesome paypal is, i was just paid from a sponsor $140 , and after fees I get $133.54

Want to talk about a rape in that ass, for such tiny payout lol

The hoops that discouraged me from speculating - you decide to sell and you have to wait, while waiting, the value of BTC may go down or up etc.

So you're suggesting that I ought to withdraw the GBP to an account via Paypal (taking 3-5 days), then depositing that GBP onto an exchange (hopefully finding one in Australia that accepts GBP and will allow you to trade) for 3-5 days, then selling the currency at the market rate to turn it into AUD, then withdrawing it (taking 3-5 days)?

Or, of course, I could get paid in Crypto, trade it INSTANTLY at the market rate and withdraw it. This would also bypass the $160 USD PayPal fee, for which you haven't given a viable reason as to why I wouldn't use Bitcoin instead. Even IF I could get a market rate for the currency exchange at my bank (which I absolutely know I cannot)

Transaction fees for Bitcoin are low and insignificant compared to any other currency. Just google bitcoin transaction fees for an education. That way some of you can speak with a certain amount of authority. Otherwise just pull whatever fee you want out of your ass.

This and VR can go fuck themselves.

Wrong again. Any exchange has market rate sell/buy available.

Really a lot of you guys are completely misinformed. If you would know and experienced the system for yourselves you would know. but all of these opinions based on what people told you, misinformation elsewhere, etc :Oh crap

withdrawing money from paypal takes 1-2 days...if you do not like the exchange rate in your bank when your GBP arrive you can take the money and go to a private exchanger...we have 1000-s of them in my city...all of them accept any major currency and the rate is very good...

good luck with your getting paid in BTC endeavour...99.9999% of the world does not use it...paypal and CC on the other hand...

Does anyone accept PayPal besides Epoch

AFIK, Epoch has an exclusive deal for PayPal payment for digital adult content.
10%+ discount -- not cheap but people well pay that surcharge to use PayPal (or part of it).

#1 spot the people who didn't read the OP properly and how it quite clearly relates to B2B

#2 spot the people who have never used btc, never bought any, never sent any, yet post their 'knowledge' in this and every crypto thread

It's quite laughable, and again I draw their attention to the fact: you are doing what markham does when he speaks of traffic, or webcams.

It's like seeing people who have never used paypal nor even set up an account there, argue the toss on why paypal is no good :1orglaugh

carry on, it's hilarious reading all the crypto threads on here :thumbsup

ps the one argument to make against B2B crypto in it's current state, is clearly tracing the equivalent $/£/AUD/etc amount for accounting/expenses. It's actually why I had to revert back to paypal instead of btc to my guys in the phillipines - they hate the paypal fees but have to swallow them until the whole crypto process is easier for accounting for guys like me in the UK who bulk wire to gemini or so. That will change of course as time goes on, but as I say, currently that's the biggest stumbling block for a lot of int'l B2B services.

I know. But it takes time, or at least took time.
So imagine price is 1000 bucks, you put in "sell". Then seconds after it crashes to 10 bucks. Would they still pay you out 1000? Or come up with an excuse?

those fees are killers

And the private exchanger is going to charge a premium for the service. How do you think they make money? You lose 3-5% every time you change currency over at those places.

0.5% in my bank GBP to local currency...on 3000 GBP I would get a discount with a private exchanger he would do it for like 10$...this is my total cost...what is yours when you cash out 3000gbp bitcoin to ausdollar?

If you're using bitpay you can choose to be paid fiat at the exact rate at point of sale.

If you're talking about manually then it's the same as any other type of exchanging or trading in the world, if you did 1 hr ago, could be diff from now, could be diff from next hour. Etc.

Which bank is offering you 0.5% to switch GBP into your local currency? The lowest in Australia would be 2.5% at most.

As I've said, the ONLY fees paid are the transaction cost of the coin to another wallet (around $1) and the exchange commission, which is 0.7%. That's it.

Here are the current Bitcoin prices on an English exchange and an Aus exchange:

https://i.imgur.com/lftrqg0.png

1 Bitcoin would cost 3246 pounds. It would sell in Australia for $5590. This is BUY rates for UK and SELL rates for Australia. The transfers would be instant.

CommBank, the largest Australian bank, would offer me this many GBP for $5590:

https://i.imgur.com/9T7kxkI.png

That's 3130 GBP from what was once 3246 GBP.

Interestingly enough, the current value of 3246 GBP (the current Bitcoin price in the UK) in AUD on the markets is $5476 AUD. So I'd actually be selling Bitcoins here, in Australia, with a premium attached. I'd earn an additional $100 or so.

Right now, a client paying me from the UK in their native currency would be earning me money for the exchange, not costing me money.

GBP according to the national bank of serbia today is 133.9 dinars for purchase and 134.7 for sale...works out to about 0.7% but I live in a small country where the exchange rates fluctuate a lot...the USD today is 0.6% for exchange the Euro is just under 0.5%...

private banks will give me around the same exchange rate, private exchangers will do any reasonable amount of money to local currency for 10$...

No they won't.

AIK banka | Bank exchange rates | Exchange rates | Valuta.rs | Valuta.rs

Buy US dollar: 98.1
Sell US dollar: 104.4

Banca Intesa | Bank exchange rates | Exchange rates | Valuta.rs | Valuta.rs

Buy US dollar: 96.2
Sell US dollar: 106.3

Komercijalna banka | Bank exchange rates | Exchange rates | Valuta.rs | Valuta.rs

Buy US dollar: 98.7
Sell US dollar: 103.8

Banka Po?tanska ?tedionica | Bank exchange rates | Exchange rates | Valuta.rs | Valuta.rs

Buy US dollar: 98.2
Sell US dollar: 105.1

The lowest there is the third one, with a swing of 5%, or 2.5% either way. Around the same best-rate scenario for Australia.

those are true but the prices are for suckers...you mentioned banca intesa above my company has an account there I will pull out what I get for selling them the USD I get when I can, its at my accountants, I think I pay like 0.5% total for the mandatory conversion to serbian dinar...

this is the official exchange rate for the natioal bank of serbia:

USD 1 100.9859 buy 101.5937 sell

NBS | Kursna lista na dan (click on "prikazi")

I exchange here:

http://www.menjacnicedok.rs/

for example the EURO today is buy 119.00 and sell is 119.20...this is less than 0.2%

the dollar is buy 100.4 and sell for 101.8 but this is for small amounts...if I wanted to change 1000$ they would easily give me 0.5%...for 10K I would easily get 0.2% for example...

I don't use Bitcoin for anything adult yet but I'm looking for a btc payment processor that I can use on site.

Oops spoke too soon. Their service looks pretty good. Does anyone else have experience with bitpay?

So you are certain it would pay out if people sold at $4000 and (while waiting for payment) it suddenly dropped to $0?


Manual as if person to person communicating directly?

Ok, you sell to other GFY member at $4000. He says, ok, wait, I will transfer 4000 bucks to you. While he is doing it btc crashes to $0. What do you think said member would do? Send you 4000?
Surely some may be fair, but...

With other currencies it is "live", with BTC it is with a delay where things can happen.

Ps: I never did BTC tradee so just speculating in theory, but these concerns were reasons why I did not speculate in BTC, even though I thought I could profit. On top of concern for fees that eats up a portion of profits.

Well there has to be a point where both parties agrees on the same amount

If i say i'll buy BTC from you right now, at 1 BTC to $4000 rate. And we both agree, and i tell you i 'll pay you next week

next week I pay you $4000 regardless if the price is $1million or $zero because we agreed on the rate already.



also, for bitcoin to drop $4000 to $0 in seconds is impossible, or opposite of that too. These hypothetical situations are so far fetched.

Let me ask you this, if me/you agreed to exchange $100 usd for 75 euro, right now, but what if next week Euro drops to value worth less than tissue paper, what then? we can ask these questions til we pass out.

You can join all the SeeMyBucks websites with BitCoin :thumbsup

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

https://es.coingate.com/assets/Bitco...c8194ab94a.png

Some banks have foreign currency accounts that let you trade (albeit with a fairly large spread) between currencies. It's just a transfer between your two accounts within internet banking.

I can see one flaw in your example: you're using $5590 as the value, but the top 3 orders won't actually cover you selling a full 1 BTC. Those orders cover trading of 0.66866212 BTC for $3737.10, which is an average rate of $5588.92/BTC; to sell 1 BTC all at once would cause more slippage and your effective rate would be lower.

I also feel you're using the term 'instant' a little loosely... firstly your transaction needs to be incorporated into a block, which can take a few blocks, then the receiving exchange (in your example it looks like btcmarkets?) will wait for at least 1 network confirm. The block rate is nominally one per 10 minutes, but sometimes the delay between blocks can be many times that. So let's say 4 blocks to incorporate + 1 to confirm, which is 50 minutes (nominal) before cleared BTC is available in the receiver's account. The market could shift during that time.

Fuck PayPal. In the US they're now completely unworkable as a business solution. Crus man I know something is up with you now. PayPal is rife with fees internationally. What you're describing just does not exist with PayPal.