GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum (https://gfy.com/index.php)
-   Fucking Around & Business Discussion (https://gfy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=26)
-   -   Where's the money at in adult these days? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1298168)

Paul&John 04-26-2018 12:40 AM
Cams cams cams

Paul Markham 04-26-2018 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonymous (Post 22259664)
They were forced to adapt and change, they did not. Google penalized them for not learning how to adapt and continuing oldschool techniques instead of learning how to properly manage a business and invest into new ways to offer the produce they provide. Affiliate sites could always convert, it's that they lost their form of getting traffic, which was mainly capitalizing on using the paysites/models brand in Google. When that could no longer work, sales decreased. Which caused them to spend less, making them spiral even faster. Very similar reason why a lot of paysite owners died off. There are several ways to deal with a declining business and those who do not have the experience or business management skills generally get anxiety/afraid and spend less vs what they should be doing, spending more and learning how things have changed and what they can do.

Anyway it was their traffic that disappeared. Reason: Google. Link exchanges could no longer work either because their trade partners also depended on search engine traffic.

Affiliates killed themselves off by not adapting. With all the traffic TGPs had, freeones had, etc etc - they could have became the next pornhub. They did not.

It allowed tubes to walk in and crush them. I dont think i saw a single tgp change until they were frantically wondering what the hell to do because they've lost the majority of their traffic/sales

TGPs offered sample videos and the best pics from every set, now its tubes that do.

We consider tubes an affiliate, so if you do as well, I dont believe it has shrunk that much, there just aren't as many because they have more traffic per property.

What does affiliates no longer being able to receive traffic to fuel their blogs/tgps and other stupid sites have to do with how paysites sell? Paysites can still use pornhub/tubes which has as much traffic as affiliates. We have to pay for adspace, yes. But we also reach far more people in one space. Videos also get user uploaded and brand it that way, without having to pay.

Companies are also working together to receive more traffic/sales. This is something you did not see before, as an industry matures, you see change, it went from small fish feeding big fish, now its big fish feeding big fish and no need for small fish. It costs more to get in and you also make more. Like all maturing industries. Might seem dead when you were deeply involved with the people on the lower spectrum of things, affiliate died off, small paysites died off so I understand why it may appear that way but it's simply not the way it is. Businesses require more work and managing people with actual degrees, who have little adult experience. Because they are cheaper and because the task of ad management is done better by somebody who understands numbers, critical thinking, task efficiency, data reports, etc. - They do not have the time to talk on the boards, so the boards are empty with those who were not able to find roles
I do support you in the part about the industry maturing and small sites are all but gone. Still even the big sites can't compete with free and pirating of their own movies.

https://thepiratebay.org/browse/500/0/7/0

https://www.pornhub.com/video?o=mv&cc=cz

This is where the traffic that used to convert at 1-200 has gone. It now converts at 1-30,000 + views. Ads convert so badly that few can make it work, because they offer something worse than the site they left.

I give proof, you give a wall off text. :1orglaugh

thommy 04-26-2018 01:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 22259703)

I give proof, you give a wall off text. :1orglaugh
yes - proof of your stupidy !

better go to the city park and feed the pigeons.

Paul Markham 04-26-2018 01:26 AM
The problem with porn is that it can't do anything new and still retain mass appeal and keep it off pirate sites and Tubes. It's basically boy fucks girl, girl fuck girl, solo girl and the men fuck men. Mainstream niches are shooting the same scenes over and over again for decades, long before the Internet.

When those scenes or very similar are given away for free you get 1117 seeds and 478 leechers or free views in the 10s of millions. HD made no difference, VR makes no difference so what can be done to rescue the mainstay of the porn industry?

thommy 04-26-2018 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 22259661)
So why are their fewer and fewer affiliates? Don't deny their isn't boards are dead, dying or long gone.
there arenīt fewer affiliates you moron.
but affiliates are not any more people who do websites.
affiliates today are big media buying companies with a mass of employees.
and true - this guys do not know how to get traffic but they know MUCH better how to convert it.

Quote:
Shows are tiny compared to a few years ago and mostly non porn sites. Never seen you at a show.
where did you get this information from ?

the affiliate world shows in berlin, barcelona, bangkok and wherever are shows with thousands of attendees. and yes 1/3 of them is adult.

andreas and walter with their summits do have problems to find hotels big enough.

what a fuck are you talking about ?

Quote:
In fact give us some piece of the industry being 20-50 times higher. Not ad selling as that's not an indicator, we want to see actual paysites.
why are you nailed on paysites?
yes there are still some bringing money - and I can see even a growth in the past 2 years. but this paysites are just a fraction of what is sold on porn.

and yes they do not have much affiliates anymore because even adultwebmasters learned that they can make more money by selling more products and leave the risk on the one who pays for the advertising.

additionally the really big sites have own media buying teams (some of them are HUGE)
they are no longer dependent on direct-affiliates.

in the old times we had in example in the german market like 10.000 who made some money with adult. now we have maybe 500 big ones left. and they make MUCH more as the 10.000 together.

it is a question of going with the market and not against it.
you are not able to go with the market because you do not have skills for it.
but this is what business is. the smart ones survive the dumb ones are crying and wish back the good old times.
this is in every biz like that - and you are the proof.

Paul Markham 04-26-2018 01:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thommy (Post 22259713)
there arenīt fewer affiliates you moron.
but affiliates are not any more people who do websites.
affiliates today are big media buying companies with a mass of employees.
and true - this guys do not know how to get traffic but they know MUCH better how to convert it.
Arwe they buying traffic that converts at 1-300?



Quote:
where did you get this information from ?

the affiliate world shows in berlin, barcelona, bangkok and wherever are shows with thousands of attendees. and yes 1/3 of them is adult.
From visiting shows and what is said on boards.

Quote:
why are you nailed on paysites?
yes there are still some bringing money - and I can see even a growth in the past 2 years. but this paysites are just a fraction of what is sold on porn.
So you admit they have gone from being the mainstay of porn to a fraction. What has replaced their sales?

Quote:
and yes they do not have much affiliates anymore because even adultwebmasters learned that they can make more money by selling more products and leave the risk on the one who pays for the advertising.

additionally the really big sites have own media buying teams (some of them are HUGE)
they are no longer dependent on direct-affiliates.

in the old times we had in example in the german market like 10.000 who made some money with adult. now we have maybe 500 big ones left. and they make MUCH more as the 10.000 together.

it is a question of going with the market and not against it.
you are not able to go with the market because you do not have skills for it.
but this is what business is. the smart ones survive the dumb ones are crying and wish back the good old times.
this is in every biz like that - and you are the proof.
What big sites are buying Ad spots? Name them as they must be known by their ads. The big sites own porn tubes. Or deal direct with them.

I agree with you about going with the industry, something I did continually through my career, unlike you. I retired because of my health and age with enough to see me out in comfort. Can't stay here long because I have to go for dialysis in a few minutes.

Unlike you and Pseudonymous I give links to where the traffic is. you write a wall of text. My taxi is here. Bye.

thommy 04-26-2018 03:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 22259717)
Arwe they buying traffic that converts at 1-300?
if you talk about clicks - even less.
but it would lead to far to explain you a biz model what is FAAAR ahead of you knowledge.

Quote:
From visiting shows and what is said on boards.
how many boards do you know beside GFY ?
there are TONNS of bid affiliate boards out there with thousands and thousands of active members who do not care what product they sell.

only affiliatefix.com (what is just one of them) have around 100 k members and mostly like 1000 online.

Quote:
So you admit they have gone from being the mainstay of porn to a fraction. What has replaced their sales?
dating, gaming, gambling, enhancement products, mobile apps, physical products, holidays, crypto and of course still a few paysites.
but then even bigger market are people who do not focus on ANY markets.
sweepstakes, incentives - alone this 2 biz models are 10 times bigger as the porn industry ever was.

Quote:
What big sites are buying Ad spots? Name them as they must be known by their ads. The big sites own porn tubes. Or deal direct with them.
why should i name them ? do you think I will write here the names of my buyers or anybody else do it?
but if you mean the really BIG sites in porn I can tell you that ALL of them are buying ads and/or working with big media buying companies what have the skills and know how to convert.

Quote:
I agree with you about going with the industry, something I did continually through my career, unlike you. I retired because of my health and age with enough to see me out in comfort. Can't stay here long because I have to go for dialysis in a few minutes.
your big thinking error is that you see the stuff you produced as the product.
if the movie industry in the world would see that the same way they would be bankrupt already.

the longterm big money in any kind of movie production is made directly or indirectly with advertising.
so not the customer is paying for the content but the advertiser will do it.
not even a cinema (where people pay to go in) could live without advertising because the entrance fee would double up.


Quote:
Unlike you and Pseudonymous I give links to where the traffic is. you write a wall of text. My taxi is here. Bye.
what kind of links do you want?
links to pornhub and pirate bay ?

for what?

pornhub alone buys more movies than all paysites together.
they give jobs and pay more money to their employees as 1000nds of affiliates make together.

where do you think does this money come from? and do you REALLY believe that advertisers would pay it when they could not make profit with it?

sorry about the dialyses thing. take care - I still want to fight with you a bit longer.

JFK 04-26-2018 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CourtneyR_FFN (Post 22258909)
Dating and cams still crushing it.
So is Courtney ! :Graucho

thommy 04-26-2018 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonymous (Post 22259664)
They were forced to adapt and change, they did not. Google penalized them for not learning how to adapt and continuing oldschool techniques instead of learning how to properly manage a business and invest into new ways to offer the produce they provide. Affiliate sites could always convert, it's that they lost their form of getting traffic, which was mainly capitalizing on using the paysites/models brand in Google. When that could no longer work, sales decreased. Which caused them to spend less, making them spiral even faster. Very similar reason why a lot of paysite owners died off. There are several ways to deal with a declining business and those who do not have the experience or business management skills generally get anxiety/afraid and spend less vs what they should be doing, spending more and learning how things have changed and what they can do.

Anyway it was their traffic that disappeared. Reason: Google. Link exchanges could no longer work either because their trade partners also depended on search engine traffic.

Affiliates killed themselves off by not adapting. With all the traffic TGPs had, freeones had, etc etc - they could have became the next pornhub. They did not.

It allowed tubes to walk in and crush them. I dont think i saw a single tgp change until they were frantically wondering what the hell to do because they've lost the majority of their traffic/sales

TGPs offered sample videos and the best pics from every set, now its tubes that do.

We consider tubes an affiliate, so if you do as well, I dont believe it has shrunk that much, there just aren't as many because they have more traffic per property.

What does affiliates no longer being able to receive traffic to fuel their blogs/tgps and other stupid sites have to do with how paysites sell? Paysites can still use pornhub/tubes which has as much traffic as affiliates. We have to pay for adspace, yes. But we also reach far more people in one space. Videos also get user uploaded and brand it that way, without having to pay.

Companies are also working together to receive more traffic/sales. This is something you did not see before, as an industry matures, you see change, it went from small fish feeding big fish, now its big fish feeding big fish and no need for small fish. It costs more to get in and you also make more. Like all maturing industries. Might seem dead when you were deeply involved with the people on the lower spectrum of things, affiliate died off, small paysites died off so I understand why it may appear that way but it's simply not the way it is. Businesses require more work and managing people with actual degrees, who have little adult experience. Because they are cheaper and because the task of ad management is done better by somebody who understands numbers, critical thinking, task efficiency, data reports, etc. - They do not have the time to talk on the boards, so the boards are empty with those who were not able to find roles
it is very refreshing to read some lines from someone who tries to see the situation from a neutral and logic perspective instead of crying around and try to make others guilty for own mistakes.

the problem in adult is that there was a time when everybody could make money with it because everybody had the same skills (: zero).

when i started in 1997 i could make my dog a successful webmaster and i was one of the idiots making a lot of money and did not even know why.

That business became harder was not only a reason of a cheaper audience (when internet became cheaper) it was also divided in 3 groups:

Group 1 was unable to learn. they just made accidentally the right thing at the right time and thought it will go on forever.

Group 2 are the people without own ideas. They want to look forward but they do not have the empathy and marketing knowledge to create something own and unique.
I call them the copiers. An because copying is easy the numbers of copies can be endless.
They are ending up sharing a quite big cake but with too many other copiers.

Group 3 are the people with the long term view - willing to learn and observing the market. Those are the winners because they took all what others did not even see.
They invested the money instead of spending it and they are the ones with the skills, the tools and the manpower.

Most of them are companies meanwhile and they will probably not even read here.

for people who are thinking that GFY or any other adult board is representing the adult industry it really looks like the adult industry is getting down year by year.
but if they would have the complete view they would realize that the opposite is the case.

sure - in these days you will not find many who make 100 k per year - because they split into one group what makes less than 10 k per year an the other group what makes a few million.

overseeing this facts is the reason of wrong convictions as paulīs.

Paul Markham 04-26-2018 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thommy (Post 22259737)
dating, gaming, gambling, enhancement products, mobile apps, physical products, holidays, crypto and of course still a few paysites.
but then even bigger market are people who do not focus on ANY markets.
sweepstakes, incentives - alone this 2 biz models are 10 times bigger as the porn industry ever was.
So you include other industries to prove your point. :upsidedow

Then I will do the same about any media where a camera is used. Movies, TV, Cable, Cams and porn are still bigger than businesses advertising them. :321GFY



Quote:
why should i name them ? do you think I will write here the names of my buyers or anybody else do it?
but if you mean the really BIG sites in porn I can tell you that ALL of them are buying ads and/or working with big media buying companies what have the skills and know how to convert.
I didn't ask for names of your buyers. I asked for names, I already have found the lame ducks you advertise for in porn. It proves you make less than we did from porn.



Quote:
your big thinking error is that you see the stuff you produced as the product.
if the movie industry in the world would see that the same way they would be bankrupt already.
So they don't care about people downloading for free?

Quote:
the longterm big money in any kind of movie production is made directly or indirectly with advertising.
so not the customer is paying for the content but the advertiser will do it.
not even a cinema (where people pay to go in) could live without advertising because the entrance fee would double up.
Bullshit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...grossing_films

Quote:
what kind of links do you want?
links to pornhub and pirate bay ?

for what?
Links to anyone advertising to prove you're right.

Quote:
pornhub alone buys more movies than all paysites together.
they give jobs and pay more money to their employees as 1000nds of affiliates make together.

where do you think does this money come from? and do you REALLY believe that advertisers would pay it when they could not make profit with it?
Are you saying they now produce more content than was produced in 2000? Or they make more money than the porn industry did in 2000? I will give you that the business has now changed, the days of 1,000s of people making a living from fair to good to amazing are long gone. To be replaced by people very good at scraping dollars from traffic that costs $30 for 6,000 clicks from sites that have a rate of clicks per views sucks. Mainstream is complaining about it all the time. Newspapers have been gutted. The days of them exposing real scandals like Watergate, Child abuse, PENTAGON PAPERS, etc. https://www.google.com/search?ei=sRL....0.Ryi-9iQ4ouM

Because free newspapers can't afford to do in depth investigations. Which ones are supported by ads? Both, but offline advertising paid more so they could dig deeper.

Quote:
sorry about the dialyses thing. take care - I still want to fight with you a bit longer.
I will give you that the growth of all advertising dwarfs the porn industry. That was true in the beginning of adverts to today. But in porn, films, cams, dating that falls into the porn sector, isn't going to replace the billions made from selling magazines and films. What you are saying is stupid. You are trying to claim advertising is bigger than people paying for the product. Then all the sites would go out of business.

Paul Markham 04-26-2018 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thommy (Post 22259839)
Most of them are companies meanwhile and they will probably not even read here.
So name these companies. They would love the free advertising. Not your customers of course.

Quote:
for people who are thinking that GFY or any other adult board is representing the adult industry it really looks like the adult industry is getting down year by year.
but if they would have the complete view they would realize that the opposite is the case.

sure - in these days you will not find many who make 100 k per year - because they split into one group what makes less than 10 k per year an the other group what makes a few million.
Back in the day content producers working in the offline business made over $100k a year. It was easy if you could find, coach and shoot the right models. You think it's big, I don't.

Then there were the porn retailers making $Millions. Flynt, Raymond, Gold, Sullivan, Milton, Heffner, Beate Uhse, anyone who owned a few of sex shops could expect $million pound income. The mafia weren't involved because it was a penny farthing business.

Quote:
overseeing this facts is the reason of wrong convictions as paulīs.
Making someone see beyond his tiny world is hard, your's is advertising where the product is given away for free to garner traffic that would pay if it weren't free. You now claim that advertising is bigger than the industry producing the products, that's illogical.

Mainstream advertising has always been bigger than porn.

http://spyrestudios.com/wp-content/u...sterfields.jpg

Chesterfield ads were bigger than porn back in the day, but not bigger than the Tobacco Industry. So please stick to porn and prove you know what you are talking about with porn style ads on porn sites. And stop claiming Advertising Complete is bigger than a small industry. I know that.

nikki99 04-26-2018 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIK (Post 22259685)
In the mirror.
ba dum tssssss
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Kittens 04-26-2018 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIK (Post 22259685)
In the mirror.
ba dum tssssss
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikki99 (Post 22259980)
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh
whoa, you're right. I looked in the mirror and said nikki99 3 times and she shows up.

incredibleworkethic 04-26-2018 09:14 PM
Cams, I'm doing 2-3k biweekly, honestly.

thommy 04-27-2018 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 22259979)
Making someone see beyond his tiny world is hard, your's is advertising where the product is given away for free to garner traffic that would pay if it weren't free. You now claim that advertising is bigger than the industry producing the products, that's illogical.
paul, I am 21 years in this biz and not only in advertising.
I did all and everything what one can do in this biz while you only know it from your small perspective.

the advertising biz was and is the biggest in the whole internet.

no matter HOW you get customers.
it can be a weather site a social media site or a porn site or whatever.

you are crying because a sandkorn on the beach got lost.
you never had the big perspective.

Quote:
Mainstream advertising has always been bigger than porn.
tell me what is mainstream advertising?

regarding your vision it means that a weather site is here to sell thermometers and
a formula 1 site can only sell sportscars.

you should really sometimes have a look in the real world.

just only in dating there are BILLIONS made with porn customers.

enhancement stuff could not reach such a HUGE revenue without free porn.
another WORLD WIDE MARKET what makes billions not by selling porn but promoting it to this customers.

gaming, gambling, travel and much much more did already find out that porn users are just normal consumers and they are not scared anymore to promote on porn sites.

you are right when you say that the market has changed but it did not went down - it became MUCH bigger as it was before.

just dreamers like you did not mention it.

Quote:
Chesterfield ads were bigger than porn back in the day, but not bigger than the Tobacco Industry. So please stick to porn and prove you know what you are talking about with porn style ads on porn sites. And stop claiming Advertising Complete is bigger than a small industry. I know that.
aha - and you think that chesterfield or the tobacco industry did spend their money ONLY on smokers sites ???

do you think that weather sites are belonging to the weather industry?
do you think that sports-sites are belonging to the sports industry ?

just have a look in your daily newspaper who is advertising there and after that tell me to what industry the newspaper belongs to.
go and open a shoping channel on your tv and look what they sell there. after that tell me to what industry the shopping channel belongs to.

watch a soap comedy and see who is advertising there and tell me what it have to do with the comedy.

i really canīt understand why you do not even understand the basic things of the MEDIA industry - and this is actually the industry we belong to.

thommy 04-27-2018 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by incredibleworkethic (Post 22260157)
Cams, I'm doing 2-3k biweekly, honestly.
can i ask you a serious question?

if you make 2-3 k biweeky (what is actually not really good money) WHY do you say that ?

letīs say only 20 of the readers here would catch up your idea you have 20 competitors more. this 20 competitors donīt make the buying market any bigger. they HAVE to live from the EXISTING market - with other words: YOURS !!!

when i promoted cams in the beginning times (i think was in 1999/2000) i made 20-30 k WEEKLY and I was able to make that because the complete market was still believing in memberships and dialer stuff.

i remember that my webmasterID was something around 60 or 70.

3 years later - when the cams were booming but my income was down more than 50% i referred a webmaster into that program and his webmasterid was 5-digit.

this is one of this typical examples what happend million times.
I think when I started promoting cams the cam market was like 10% of the total porn market.
3 years later cams made 70% of the total - so 7 times more than before but the average income of the competitors decreased to a tenth of what is was before.

the individual will see this issue as "decreasing market" - but the real story is that it was INCREASING a fucking lot. but the number of competitors increased MORE than the money in the market.


1.000.000 / 100 = 10.000
10.000.000 /10.000 = 1.000

and even when there is 10 times more money spend as before, paul would call that the end of the cam-industry

the absolute same happend with membersites.

NatalieK 04-27-2018 12:51 PM
my pay site sells and makes money, with high retention.

Iīm proud to say all traffic makes more money sent to my official porn site NatalieK.xxx :thumbsup

Holy Damage 04-27-2018 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by incredibleworkethic (Post 22260157)
Cams, I'm doing 2-3k biweekly, honestly.

Nice numbers!

redwhiteandblue 04-28-2018 02:40 AM
http://www.theporncollection.com/images/markhamd.jpg

incredibleworkethic 04-28-2018 05:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Damage (Post 22260464)
Nice numbers!
Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thommy (Post 22260261)
can i ask you a serious question?

if you make 2-3 k biweeky (what is actually not really good money) WHY do you say that ?
Sometimes I'm honest to a fault. Take a look at my old posts. I'm not a shit poster, I genuinely want good things for everyone. It took me reading someone saying the same thing "pick cams". I've been a failure at adult for 10 years and this last 1.5 years it clicked.

I went from $500, sometimes $200 a month for the 2-3 years before I went to cams from reviewing porn sites. Made most of my money writing for others.

If my suggestion changes someone's life go for it. I'm still growing, which is nice. :)

Now you say that's not good money, I agree, on it's own, it's fair, but not good. But I also work a job in the high XX,XXX low XXX,XXX some years. It depends on how much OT I do. So yeah I'm still working like a dog but I have the life I've been dreaming of lately. So I'm at peace sharing a few suggestions. If I can't compete with the new competition (I can, I worked on my stuff even when I made nothing for a very long time), I don't deserve to be in the game.

Thanks for your post, it allowed me to say a few things too. Have a good one. :pimp

ilnjscb 04-28-2018 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonymous (Post 22259429)
Because the businesses that usually are sold in this industry are shells of their former self and at anytime, things could change and drop the income dramatically. On top of that, there is just more sense in investing money into something that could profit much higher since this industry will continue to be the easiest way to invest money.

Mainstream companies sell for more due to stability, how hard it is to start a company in mainstream and the larger buyer market
I don't disagree with you - I'm just saying you have to have money to make it now

cosis 04-28-2018 08:10 PM
TGP's still do it for me

Tasty1 04-29-2018 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thommy (Post 22260258)
gaming, gambling, travel and much much more did already find out that porn users are just normal consumers and they are not scared anymore to promote on porn sites.
I solved that years ago already by setting up some seperate travel, gambling and other sites and promote these sites on my adult network :) Never had any problem.

i also don't see any difference in porn, gambling, travel, I just do all. And when i was at the Bangkok Affiliate World it was very interesting. Much more interesting than the traditional porn conferences.

thommy 04-29-2018 01:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjorn_Tasty1 (Post 22260929)
I solved that years ago already by setting up some seperate travel, gambling and other sites and promote these sites on my adult network :) Never had any problem.

i also don't see any difference in porn, gambling, travel, I just do all. And when i was at the Bangkok Affiliate World it was very interesting. Much more interesting than the traditional porn conferences.
this is exactly what paul never understands.
in his world porn users are buying porn only.

in his mind also free tv canīt exist because the watchers donīt pay for the movies they are watching.
he even ignores that all the websites he get his correct or incorrect information from are free sites and mostly financed from advertising.

the time he remembers was the time when people paid for ONE newspaper and shared it with the complete neighborhood.

thommy 04-29-2018 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by incredibleworkethic (Post 22260643)
Thank you!

Sometimes I'm honest to a fault. Take a look at my old posts. I'm not a shit poster, I genuinely want good things for everyone. It took me reading someone saying the same thing "pick cams". I've been a failure at adult for 10 years and this last 1.5 years it clicked.

I went from $500, sometimes $200 a month for the 2-3 years before I went to cams from reviewing porn sites. Made most of my money writing for others.

If my suggestion changes someone's life go for it. I'm still growing, which is nice. :)

Now you say that's not good money, I agree, on it's own, it's fair, but not good. But I also work a job in the high XX,XXX low XXX,XXX some years. It depends on how much OT I do. So yeah I'm still working like a dog but I have the life I've been dreaming of lately. So I'm at peace sharing a few suggestions. If I can't compete with the new competition (I can, I worked on my stuff even when I made nothing for a very long time), I don't deserve to be in the game.

Thanks for your post, it allowed me to say a few things too. Have a good one. :pimp
donīt get me wrong - I appreciate honest people who like to share and try to give instead to take only.

this is actually what I am trying also but not with THE solution to become a millionaire but with a bit of my knowledge in this market and some logic what mostly get lost when people want to believe in a future without problems.

over 40 years of my life I was spending with marketing science and the last 21 of them in internet. It is not only because I am quite good in that - it is because I love this job.
I love to analyze problems and find solutions.

There was no generation before us who had the possibility to see "market evolution" in such a time laps speed as we can see it in the "generation internet".

so called "trends" are coming and going - but if you really look deeper they did never come and never go. there was just a time when they have been overseen and after that they have been overestimated.

there is nothing existing like an endless market. the internet itself is a self-breeding snowball system - a universe in which bubbles blow and burst every day.

and as you know for sure every snowball system is self destroying at the point when the number of sellers is getting bigger as the number of buyers.

there as also a time when nearly everybody promoted livecams.
they promoted it because the few who did it already made good money and everybody wanted to do the same.
but a limited numbers of buyers can only feed a limited number of sellers.

that means that even a good advice is a self destroying advise because IF people listen and react it will overload this segment again.

I think there are so many possibilities to survive in porn if we just recognize and accept that porno customers not only buy porn.
there is an interesting number what is showing that all porn site visitors in the past and now did never spend more than 0,26% of their monthly budget for porn.

and sure there are some in between that even spend 110% of their budget for a limited time and many who did never spend a cent for it.

but what they all have in common is that ALL of them spend nearly all of their monthly budget for other things. imagine what that would mean if the pron industry could get 2,6 % of it instead of 0,26 %.

emmasexytime 04-29-2018 05:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 22259708)
The problem with porn is that it can't do anything new and still retain mass appeal and keep it off pirate sites and Tubes. It's basically boy fucks girl, girl fuck girl, solo girl and the men fuck men. Mainstream niches are shooting the same scenes over and over again for decades, long before the Internet.

When those scenes or very similar are given away for free you get 1117 seeds and 478 leechers or free views in the 10s of millions. HD made no difference, VR makes no difference so what can be done to rescue the mainstay of the porn industry?


Make the purchaser fall in love with the girl first for example. Then offer xxx content. :2 cents:

emmasexytime 04-29-2018 05:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilnjscb (Post 22260843)
I don't disagree with you - I'm just saying you have to have money to make it now

That is not really true. :2 cents:

Obviously everything takes time and effort that can just be sped up/make easier with money, but you don't have to have money to make it. :2 cents: but various skills do help. :pimp

ilnjscb 04-29-2018 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmasexytime (Post 22260998)
That is not really true. :2 cents:

Obviously everything takes time and effort that can just be sped up/make easier with money, but you don't have to have money to make it. :2 cents: but various skills do help. :pimp
It is more true. Anything can happen, but porn has become a more conventional business and not the wild west it was.

Show me 10 millionaires created who started with nothing in the last 5 years. We should know them, they should be easy to spot. Or show me 5 new top line companies created in the last 5 years. Or anything like that.

CrazyMartin 04-29-2018 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosis (Post 22260873)
TGP's still do it for me
for me too, but not as good as 10 years ago :)
i get mostly money from membership sites (ccbill, nats programs) and some from ad brokers like exoclick

and you? what sells good for you?

thommy 04-29-2018 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmasexytime (Post 22260994)
Make the purchaser fall in love with the girl first for example. Then offer xxx content. :2 cents:
this is exactly what all these amateur girls do with the tubes and wherever they can place free content.

actually there are even some who pays for getting their content on the tubes. this is what paul will never understand because he is not familiar with todayīs business.

if someone just knows ONE of thousand possible ways he will swear that there is no other.

what paul fucks up is the fact, that all that is working without the traditional people like him.
there are 100 thousand amateurs around and they are content, producer and affiliate in one person. some of them are even the program owners too.

alone this part of the biz is MUCH bigger as the good old times paul is dreaming about.

MaDalton 04-29-2018 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thommy (Post 22261041)
this is exactly what all these amateur girls do with the tubes and wherever they can place free content.

actually there are even some who pays for getting their content on the tubes. this is what paul will never understand because he is not familiar with todayīs business.

if someone just knows ONE of thousand possible ways he will swear that there is no other.

what paul fucks up is the fact, that all that is working without the traditional people like him.
there are 100 thousand amateurs around and they are content, producer and affiliate in one person. some of them are even the program owners too.

alone this part of the biz is MUCH bigger as the good old times paul is dreaming about.
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/onlyfans.com
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/manyvids.com

just saying...

But Paul knows better.

Bladewire 04-30-2018 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanG (Post 22261070)
:1orglaugh

robertsolo 04-30-2018 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thommy (Post 22260261)
can i ask you a serious question?

if you make 2-3 k biweeky (what is actually not really good money) WHY do you say that ?

letīs say only 20 of the readers here would catch up your idea you have 20 competitors more. this 20 competitors donīt make the buying market any bigger. they HAVE to live from the EXISTING market - with other words: YOURS !!!

when i promoted cams in the beginning times (i think was in 1999/2000) i made 20-30 k WEEKLY and I was able to make that because the complete market was still believing in memberships and dialer stuff.

i remember that my webmasterID was something around 60 or 70.

3 years later - when the cams were booming but my income was down more than 50% i referred a webmaster into that program and his webmasterid was 5-digit.

this is one of this typical examples what happend million times.
I think when I started promoting cams the cam market was like 10% of the total porn market.
3 years later cams made 70% of the total - so 7 times more than before but the average income of the competitors decreased to a tenth of what is was before.

the individual will see this issue as "decreasing market" - but the real story is that it was INCREASING a fucking lot. but the number of competitors increased MORE than the money in the market.


1.000.000 / 100 = 10.000
10.000.000 /10.000 = 1.000

and even when there is 10 times more money spend as before, paul would call that the end of the cam-industry

the absolute same happend with membersites.


Good analysis. A very good point of view :thumbsup

The Porn Nerd 04-30-2018 01:15 PM
This thread is all over the place! So let's set some parameters.

What is "good money"? What is "successful"? If you live in New York City and own a home in New Jersey, as I do, then "successful" is (bare minimum) 100K a year. 200K is comfortable.

Now what if you live in Europe where the average inome is $200 euroes a week? Or in Alabama where the average yearly income is $19,000. What is "successful" to that person?

Let's say you own a company (as I do). What is "successful"? Compared to Pornhub? Well that's like comparing any retail business to Wal-Mart.

My definition of success: you can pay ALL your bills, save/invest money for retirement, work how & when you want. Therefore: I am crushing it. :)

Pseudonymous 04-30-2018 01:19 PM
I don't get why the question came up about 'what is successful'

The thread clearly defines 'success' as relative to the past. It was a thread about where the money has gone to... where the market is trending. So what you personally define as success doesn't necessarily matter

The Porn Nerd 04-30-2018 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonymous (Post 22261724)
I don't get why the question came up about 'what is successful'

The thread clearly defines 'success' as relative to the past. It was a thread about where the money has gone to... where the market is trending. So what you personally define as success doesn't necessarily matter
Actually it matters A LOT. Where did WHAT money go? The millions/billions made in 2002 compared to 2018? We've already established that the money never 'went' anywhere, it simply re-shifted into the hands of a few major players as opposed to thousands of smaller affiliates.

Numbers in the Adult Industry are fluffy at best, no one knows "how much" the Adult Industry as a whole made then as compared to now. It's all guesstimates. So again it comes down to: how much do YOU want to make, feel you can make and are happy to be making. The rest is useless mental masturbation.

If you compare your company's success or failure to larger, more established companies you will feel UNsuccessful. It's called the Law Of Contrast. Personally, I don't care how much Paul Markham thinks I should make, or how much thommy considers 'big time'. I know what makes ME happy and that's the only metric anyone should use IMHO.

Where's the money at? Cams, dating, paysites, buying/selling traffic, processing, dick pills....ok now what?

Pseudonymous 04-30-2018 02:20 PM
Thats the thing, the question is where it was shifted to. Thats it. The rest is an answer to a question that wasn't asked ;) To overcomplicate the original question.

Feel like any response about how much you make and what you are happy with is somebodys immediate response because they feel the need to defend what theyre doing.

question was, where has it shifted. paul believes it disappeared, rest answered where they believe it went.

answer is:

it has shifted to a few players hands due to the investment and skill required now and software software based companies

can you still make money where it has perhaps shifted from? Yes. Is it harder now? Likely. Is the ceiling as high? Not likely.

The Porn Nerd 04-30-2018 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonymous (Post 22261753)
Thats the thing, the question is where it was shifted to. Thats it. The rest is an answer to a question that wasn't asked ;) To overcomplicate the original question.

Feel like any response about how much you make and what you are happy with is somebodys immediate response because they feel the need to defend what theyre doing.

question was, where has it shifted. paul believes it disappeared, rest answered where they believe it went.

answer is:

it has shifted to a few players hands due to the investment and skill required now and software software based companies

can you still make money where it has perhaps shifted from? Yes. Is it harder now? Likely. Is the ceiling as high? Not likely.
Oh I agree with you, I was not trying to be argumentative. I did inject what the definition of success is because that's what was missing from the discussion I believe. The short answer has been posted again and again. Then Paul and the Old Timers come in with distorted memories and opinions. LOL

I was also thinking the OP is like a lot of people who got out and are considering getting back into Adult now in 2018. It can seem even MORE daunting now then perhaps it was a decade or more ago when I started. Chances are the OP is wondering how and where he can make the $$$ today. It's harder today yes but still doable, and Goals and Expectations play a role.

Like you said yourself, you could start a Solo Girl site today and make 5-10K a month. But you don't. Maybe that isn't enough incentive for you but for others, maybe the OP, that amount would be life changing. The term "Adult Industry" covers a lot of ground, from clips stores to solo models to giant companies. Just sayin'. :)

Pseudonymous 04-30-2018 02:39 PM
When I say anybody can walk in and start a solo site and make that, i should say, anybody who knows their stuff. If you don't know your stuff, you will fail no matter what it is. And a person who hasn't been around in years and most likely got phased out, will probably fail. So you should consider who you're giving advice to. Honestly somebody in that situation, who isn't extremely gifted in this industry, up to date on trends, etc - is more likely to succeed investing money than trying to start something small that requires more skill and there's a lot of gifted people who would love to partner on projects that could use additional funding, it would allow a person without much ability to learn and catch up as well. Don't have money? Find it. You'd be surprised how easy it is to find people in your city that would kill for the profit margins adult provide or people who want more time with their kids (working remotely) or just the chance to be around pornstars, etc etc - If you can't succeed doing that, it's hard to imagine you can succeed running a business

What you are doing and solo sites, all the things that used to be easy are infact the hardest route to take. Not just harder than before but harder than the alternative. Using outdated methods makes it an uphill battle in regards to work and expertise. However raising capital and executing something that is missing in this industry or vastly improving on one of these newer pieces of software is MUCH easier. They leave alot of room for improvement because the guys behind these adult companies aren't really that knowledgeable. It takes them 10 years to figure out how to get the most out of what they got. Look at manyvids, its structured like a 1999 website. It's just that theyre the only ones who had money, believed in the idea and invested into the idea. There is little to no innovation in adult, people are coming out with a minimal viable product and slowly improving on it. You can copy an existing idea and make it better very easily. but you need money. Blackd did that with paysites. Manyvids looked at clips sites and made it more relevant and better. It really doesn't need to be a new idea, improve on anything out there and it will beat it. To this day, i have yet to see a product that is better, not do better.

TLDR: Telling a newbie or some guy getting back in the industry to start small isn't necessarily the best idea. since small = much harder. So while he may be happy with 2k or 5k, that is most likely less achievable

The Porn Nerd 04-30-2018 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonymous (Post 22261761)
When I say anybody can walk in and start a solo site and make that, i should say, anybody who knows their stuff. If you don't know your stuff, you will fail no matter what it is. And a person who hasn't been around in years and most likely got phased out, will probably fail. So you should consider who you're giving advice to. Honestly somebody in that situation, who isn't extremely gifted in this industry, up to date on trends, etc - is more likely to succeed investing money than trying to start something small that requires more skill and there's a lot of gifted people who would love to partner on projects that could use additional funding, it would allow a person without much ability to learn and catch up as well. Don't have money? Find it. You'd be surprised how easy it is to find people in your city that would kill for the profit margins adult provide or people who want more time with their kids (working remotely) or just the chance to be around pornstars, etc etc - If you can't succeed doing that, it's hard to imagine you can succeed running a business

What you are doing, solo sites, all the things that used to be easy are harder now. Not just harder than before but harder than the alternative. Using outdated methods makes it an uphill battle in regards to work and expertise. However raising capital and executing something that is missing in this industry or vastly improving on one of these newer pieces of software is MUCH easier. They leave alot of room for improvement because the guys behind these adult companies aren't really that knowledgeable. It takes them 10 years to figure out how to get the most out of what they got. Look at manyvids, its structured like a 1999 website. It's just that theyre the only ones who had money, believed in the idea and invested into the idea. There is little to no innovation in adult, people are coming out with a minimal viable product and slowly improving on it. You can copy an existing idea and make it better very easily. but you need money. Blackd did that with paysites. Manyvids looked at clips sites and made it more relevant and better. It really doesn't need to be a new idea, improve on anything out there and it will beat it. To this day, i have yet to see a product that is better, not do better.

TLDR: Telling a newbie or some guy getting back in the industry to start small isn't necessarily the best idea. since small = much harder. So while he may be happy with 2k or 5k, that might most likely less achievable
Well you make excellent points. Especially about someone's skill level and commitment. But just throwing money at projects doesn't always work, either. You need a Game Plan and some success to model.

So for me expectations and Goals are key. I could spend my time trying to build a better mousetrap or I could maximize and scale what I know works (for me) and is better suited to my skill set. But in the end, regardless of talk, Goals, etc, what you say is 100% correct. It all depends on the person. If someone is motivated enough then nothing will stop him. I'm that way and I am guessing so are you. LOL That's probably why we are still here, adapting and not dying but growing. :)


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:44 PM.
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©2000-, AI Media Network Inc123