MrBB's anti-Americanism distorts his view of reality.

Quit being so fucking sensitive man. :1orglaugh

If I decide to "attack" you on a message board...you will know it.

What I said was pretty clear and not a "theory".
If you are dealing with civilized Europeans in a fancy statehouse then no you don't need to threaten them

When dealing with country's whose culture is more about strength and "saving face" then you must show strength.

And if you READ what the threats were pertaining to North Korea...they DID work in the 1950's. They were directed at China and forced them to negotiate.

"n 1953, Eisenhower threatened the use of nuclear weapons to end the Korean War if the Chinese refused to negotiate."

The Chinese DID negotiate and came to the table and the DMZ was created and the ceasefire that has lasted until this very day.

Chill out man. It's a discussion. If I want to call YOU a pussy...I would just do it straight up. I wouldn't allude to it.
I was pretty clearly saying that effeminate pussy diplomats can sip tea with their little pinky's extended in many situations when dealing with civilized country's.
Not so much when dealing with Kim Jung Un.

And Trump is not the first to handle things like this in a threatening way.
But since he IS Trump, and the media hate him...they paint it that way.

Remember...they did the same thing to Reagan when he called the Soviets "The Evil Empire".
OMG!!! It was the end of the world. Crazy Ronald Reagan was taunting them and was going to cause a nuclear war.
Remember?
I do.

I wasn't impacted personally by your insult 1 iota, I pointed it out because it's a failed argument. I'm super chill, I'm the guy advocating against violence. you're the guy scrambling to defend using nuclear weapons while claiming to be a Libertarian.


and no, you are not a denuke negotiating expert, don't act like one, especially when you use made-up history to do it.

<-------still laughing at the chill out part.

I mean really.

actual, real history:

Yes, Eisenhower considered using nuclear weapons on North Korean and possibly Chinese targets. But this plan was being discussed only at the most secret levels of the U.S. government and was kept hidden from the enemy.

Fortunately, Ike never had to pull the nuclear trigger. On March 5, 1953, Soviet leader Joseph Stalin died from a brain hemorrhage. Stalin had been an ardent backer of the North Korean war on South Korea, but his successors, an uneasy leadership team made up of Georgy Malenkov, Nikolai Bulganin, Nikita Khrushchev and Vyacheslav Molotov, felt uneasy about the war. It had been costly, had damaged the communist cause and promised no end in sight.

We know from once-secret documents, released after the collapse of the U.S.S.R., that this new Soviet leadership hatched a plan to ease world tensions in the wake of Stalin’s death. When Chinese Foreign Minister Zhou Enlai traveled to Moscow to attend Stalin’s funeral, the Soviet leaders told him it was urgent that China end the Korean War. Mao Zedong, who had long desired to ease the conflict, and North Korean dictator Kim Il Sung agreed that an armistice would be preferable to continued conflict. By early April 1953, the Chinese negotiators at the armistice discussions at Panmunjom began to make significant concessions on issues that had previously stymied progress.

Yes benevolent or you would either be a slave working for us or imprisoned, most likely in your case we would have killed you. BTW your charts show how influential and what a world power that we are yet every country is still a sovereign country. Even the ones that we currently have troops engaged in battle. BTW we are benevolent enough to allow those battles to continue when we could bring them all to a swift and abrupt end and I am not talking about the use of nukes even. I am talking about all out war and "unconditional surrender" such as was our military policy during WWII. I am talking about General MacArthur's "no substitute for victory" philosophy.

In fact, there is no debate here with you Robbie.

You have no issues with trump being a nuclear Neanderthal and you have no issues with Trump using nuclear weapons while you claim to be a Libertarian.

I'm very clear on that.

Let's just see how this next round works out. I know Robbie has done deals, you do get walkouts.

I'm glad you are so clear.
Have a great weekend

I rest my case:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/26/polit...ain/index.html

And can we all agree that Mark's original post was VERY premature in it's assumptions and showed no understanding of negotiating tactics and use of leverage?

Everyone who's done deals is familiar with the walkout tactic.

Yep, and it's scary to do it too. The times I've done that I was white-knuckling it and thinking "Boy, I have fucked up this time" lol

But it's always gotten things back on track the few times I've walked away. I'm sure it doesn't work every time. But it is a part of negotiating. Just takes a leap of faith to do it...I was definitely worried as hell when I did it.

unfortunately, the walkout backfired on trump. he got zilch for it while making NK look like the good guys.

he's no deal maker.

So... Once again North Korea and South Korea hold a meeting without any advance notice to the US, without any help from the US, without the US being present, and without the US having any part in the meeting but somehow Trump is king.

The United States doesn't even have a seat at the table.

There is no reason for the United States to have a seat at the table. We are the only nation on the Pacific that isn't a part of the TTP.

Ummm the entire deal is about our seat at the table... And who's picking up the tab.

oh so you do not keep slaves so everything is OK? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Q: so if I dropped 25.000 bombs/year on the USA but did not take slaves this would make me benevolent?
steve rupe: noooooooooooooo! we are america! you would be hitler-satan!!!! genocide!!!!
Q: but when you do the same to others you are benevolent?
steve rupe: yes we are great! we are the greatest! the double standard is the best thing ever!


it is hard to explain to some americans that bombs and invasion are very very bad things...the brain wash in the USA is much too strong...so is the double standard...dropping nukes on fishermen, using chemicals on farmers for a decade, dropping more bombs than all world wars combined, invading more countries than the roman empire in 2000 years etc...all certain signs of "benevolence"....

is there some special american dictionary where benevolent has a vastly different definition? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Hi Robbie,

It wasn't premature at all. Trump had the chance, and he blew it, at the time of the original post.

Now that it looks like it may be back on is great news.

Agreed.


Bingo.

Being benevolent is allowing you your sovereignty and self governance. Being benevolent is allowing you to come and go when I could deny you the privilege. Being benevolent is allowing you to eat when I could deny you food. Being benevolent is not enslaving you when I could. Being benevolent is allowing you to live when I could crush you. Etc, etc. etc.

Just as it always has been for the past 30,000 years and as it will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Might is right which you have agreed is correct statement on my part.

So what I said in the beginning is exactly what happened. Trump used negotiating tactics straight from his playbook and walked away. Just like he has said over and over he would.

The result: North Korea came back to the table and the summit might still happen.

How many more times can the mainstream media convince you that all the good things happening under the Trump administration are just pure luck and not his skills?

He keeps checking off the boxes of the things he campaigned on...and gets zero credit from the CNN's and MSNBC's and all of the people who don't listen to what he actually SAYS in context.

Mark, I believe Trump is the best President we've had in the modern era. I put him above Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, and JFK.

Doesn't mean he couldn't fuck everything up. Most Presidents do (especially during their second term).
But at this moment in time...he is achieving things that are mind-blowing.
And when you factor in that he is harrassed DAILY by the media and the Mueller investigation...
I mean, think about it: They are trying every day to not only hurt him...but to hurt his family and his friends.

Think about his son Baron. 10 years old. Has to hear on the news every day about Stormy Daniels.
Did the media do that to JFK's children. Hell no.

They DID do it to Bill Clinton...and it was disgraceful. And now they have racheted it up a thousand times over with Trump.

I know I can't convince you to take a non-partisan look at what Trump is doing. You can't. You have painted yourself into an ideological corner.

And I understand that. I used to be that way too.

But in 2012 I changed my political views.

I realized that EVERY administration in my lifetime has made promises to "fix" things...and NONE of them have ever done so.
Think about it.
Did Reagan actually make the U.S. into what the Christian conservatives wanted? Hell no.

Did Obama really bring "Hope and Change"? Hell no.

Was George W. Bush really a "Uniter, not a divider"? Hell no.

Democrats and Republicans get lied to by plastic politicians every time.

For the first time in my lifetime...we actually have a President who is NOT a lifetime/career bureaucrat.

And the establishment is doing everything they can to destroy him, his family, and anyone who works with him.

No. What's happening is South Korea and North Korea are talking to EACH OTHER, and the United States isn't even sitting at the table.

Un never left the table.

leaving the table as a negotiating tactic against the other guy who already left the table doesn't even make sense even if that was the sitch.

Un left the table so trump's brillaint tactic to get him back to the table is to leave the table too.

come on!

Believe what you want. I've been telling you since you first posted on this subject exactly how it was going to go...and it has.
You can think and believe whatever you want to. Of COURSE Trump gets no credit. He's an idiot and a buffoon with no knowledge of anything.

But bottom line is...this may end up being one of the most historic moments we've seen since Reagan went to the Berlin Wall and called on Gorbachev to tear it down (and the "experts" laughed at him).

Or...it might all come to nothing.
As the President keeps saying: "We will see what happens".

I'm hopeful. :)

I've already stated I'm hopeful Un denuclearizes- no ifs ands or buts.

that has nothing to do with trump not being a shrewd negotiator. Any denuke deal that happens will be in spite of trump, not because of him.

And I've shown an ability to give trump credit on things, like kicking ISIS asses and the trump effect on the economy and following through on his horrible promises to his base.

I'm more than happy to give him credit here if it were due. He's made business deals, sure, big ones too, I know that. Those deals are not even comparable to denuke deals like this.

We finally agree on something.

You are right - this might be one of the most historic moments we've seen since the wall came down. And the United States isn't a part of it. Trump, in all of his wisdom, with his complete lack of political experience, has decided we do not need an ambassador in South Korea, and has gutted our State Department. Even worse, he removed us from the TTP and handed China a huge win, weakening our political position in the Pacific. All of this is happening without the United States. The United States isn't a part of what is happening. There have been two meetings between the leaders of NK and SK, and the United States wasn't even there. The United States wasn't even told about the second meeting until AFTER it happened.

But of course Trump will take credit for everything, just like he's taking credit for the economy.

this is how you sound:

"I beat the living shit out of my wife with a baseball bat, I ruined her job, burned down her house and crashed her car...BUT...I did not turn her in to a slave, I did not starve her and she is sovereign, therefore I am benevolent" :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

"next I am going to steal a little girls bicycle because might is right and has been for 30.000 years" :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh


heres a list of things you guys are not:


benevolent
[buh-nev-uh-luh nt]
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
adjective

characterized by or expressing goodwill or kindly feelings: a benevolent attitude; her benevolent smile.
desiring to help others; charitable: gifts from several benevolent alumni.
intended for benefits rather than profit: a benevolent institution.:2 cents:

According to reality, the USA is the 2nd most giving country on the planet and we had been first for decades prior

you'll have to scroll way down to the bottom to find serbia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...Index_rankings

BTW.... Trump hasn't negotiated ANYTHING since taking office.

Which "horrible promises"?
I am one of his "base". I'm happy as hell over most of the things he has done. Just incredible how the country is back to life.

But when I watch MSNBC or CNN it's like some bizarre alternate world that they live in.
They all speak in grave somber tones and talk about how Trump is destroying our "Democracy" by fighting back against their bad coverage of him.
My, how soon they seem to have forgotten that President Obama had Fox News journalist James Rosen's emails surveilled AND wiretapped several Associated Press members.

Now THAT was a REAL attack on the free press.

Just like the FBI under Obama putting an opposing party candidate's campaign under surveillance.

These are things that only a fascist dictator would do. But the press gave Pres. Obama a pat on the back and proclaimed him "great".

Trump tweets out that CNN is "fake news" and holy shit...he's DESTROYING OUR DEMOCRACY.

What a bunch of hypocritical horseshit.

And the sad part is...it seems to have affected roughly half the population.

At least you still seem to have your wits about you...many smart people are just totally consumed with hatred of the President.
Never seen anything like it. And it's because of what the media is doing.

If you want to know who is dividing our country...it's CNN. Not Trump.

yes you give those bombs and sanctions...then you line your own pockets with "aid"...

pls dont give any more :2 cents::helpme

In denial much? You know why they are talking to each other? You just hate to admit Trump might know what he is doing.





During his meeting with Kim, Moon said the North Korean leader "once again has made clear his will for the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula and expressed his intent to settle the history of war and confrontation, and to cooperate for peace and prosperity through the success of the North Korea-US summit."

2+ years of Liberals and Democrats being wrong about everything Trump.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...31304836018176

Thanks to the constant idiocy and no political platform whatsoever from the Left apart from "Hate Trump, 24/7 and act like insolent children", there will be 8 years of Trump.

Black voters leaving Dems.
Millennials leaving Dems
Dems behind in mid term election polls
"Blue Wave" crashed long ago

and it just keeps getting worse for the left as you rally around a washed up porn star and her convicted criminal attorney and other stupid shit.... while constantly cheering for the destruction and failure of your own country.

Typical Trumpelstiltskin

Everyone's wrong and you're always right. How long you been sucking on tail pipes? Or you just born this stupid?

I disagree with all of his campaign promises, regardless of MSM baloney. I give him credit for keeping the promises nevertheless. I don't have to agree with them to realize he's followed through on a bunch of them.

I'm sorry, was that you refuting that people are in Korea right now making arrangements for the Trump/Kim meeting? Do you have any facts about why you aren't wrong? .. or just more lies and insults as a typical Leftist attempt at changing the conversation since you've basically lost every single political argument and been wrong about every single thing relating to Trump for a couple years now?

Go back to making fake "Trump Supporter" threads and talking about popular votes and let the adults talk.

so now that trump is seemingly back at the table, the question for me is what is trump willing to give up to get Un to 100% denuke. I doubt that removing sanctions would be enough. I would imagine Un would want a [complete] removal of US armed forces from SK and the region, due to the threat of the Libya model and trump's bailing out on the Iran deal, Bolton, etc et al. Un's going to try to demand more assurances trump won't kill him libya style. I don't think we have any nukes in SK so that would mean conventional weapons removed. Removing a bunch of our military from the region would certainly be appealing to China.

Just speculating. trump wants a deal bad, real bad. Un knows that. You never let the other guy know how bad you want the deal. Trump's like a teenager buying his first car and getting four squared.

How can you say that when Trump just walked away and has said over and over he will walk again if the deal isn't right?

The whole world wants a GOOD deal...and I believe Trump means exactly what he says.

This is a guy who had dealt with people all over the world for decades...not some bureaucrat who never worked in the real world.

I believe that Trump is sincerely going to go after what is best for the United States.

Of course North Korea could just turn around and not keep their promises like they did with the deal President Clinton worked out with them.

But if that happens this time...I think the game has moved to the point that whomever is President will take military action.

Hopefully President Trump can make a deal that will stick and avoid that.

But if Trump doesn't get this done...it will be a war within a decade or less...that is inevitable without something happening now to stop it.

Because of the reason he walked away.

Because he got nothing for walking away.

Because he bailed on a nuke deal in place with iran

Because he hired Bolton

Because Pence threatened libya model

Because Bolton threatened libya model

Because he recklessly taunted nuclear weapon strikes

Because he equates nuclear weapons with penis size

whew, out of gas. I'm sure there are a couple more+.

Trump isn't even sitting at the table. TWO MEETINGS between NK and SK and the United States - to the best of my knowledge - wasn't even present at either of them.