Originally Posted by Bladewire (Post 22302324)

Sad how the non industry alt-right hate fake nics here want everything Putin wants. Every single thing Putin has been working for those alt-right hate fake nics want. Imagine that

Originally Posted by xClips Jim (Post 22302348)

LMAO!

Yes, Putin wants Europe to spend MORE money on their own defense.

Logical, as always...

Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 22302303)

Left for the last 50 Years... "we need to scale back NATO", "We don't need NATO", "The Cold War is over, End NATO"

Also Left: "WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK, YOU FUCKING ASSHOLES... HOW DARE YOU SCALE BACK NATO. FUCK. SHit. Fuck fuck fuck. Shit. Trump. Fuck. Whore. Trump. Trump. Russia. TRUMP. TRUMP."



Just like with his campaign, Trump had to spend very little money because the media and the Left did his campaigning for him... mostly talking how dumb he is and how he can't possibly win and how each new thing he said and did would only hurt him and his chances of winning the election.... and every time you acted out like little children, his popularity went up, not down.

It's super kind of you idiots to recognize that and then double down on your efforts for the whole 4 years to make sure he gets a second term. Hopefully you'll all get a MAGA hat. You've all earned it.

Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 22302353)

The arguments of these people is insane. Putin wanted Trump elected so... what? We could have a strong economy? A booming stock market? Increased military spending? Tougher and better trade deals? etc etc.

Originally Posted by xClips Jim (Post 22302363)

But, Putin is a genius. So much so that he can crown Presidents in the U.S. and fake the will of the U.K. people towards Brexit.

If only he could learn to cheat at the World Cup - it must be harder to do?

Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 22302380)

:thumbsup

To be fair, Putin is a genius. He is an apex predator that is always playing chess to everyone's checkers all the time.

Do you remember how he got elected the first time? Of course not. It was the most brilliant coup ever in history. No one noticed. No one cared. No one said a single word. World Bank, European Bank of Reconstruction and Development and all the many nations offering up international loans,... never missed a beat. The flow of cash into Russia at a time when they were basically bankrupt never stopped flowing. It was almost magical how he took control of a nation where just 5 years before Yeltsin actively tried to splinter and destroy the KGB.

Yeltsin had outlived his usefulness, the "Oligarchs" had been deemed to have stolen enough and he slid right into the Kremlin. A lowly deputy to the Governor of St Petersurg region. In what was clearly a brokered agreement, he was made Prime Minister (Yeltsin was President) after many many Prime Ministers were fired by Yeltsin as they became popular. No one had heard of Putin at that time. The hot button issue was Chechnya and Russia l(great in their own minds) lost a war to a band of villagers aremed with AKs and RPGs and Druganovs and a will to fight, Coming right on the heels of the collapse of the Soviet Union, this was a huge blow to Russians egos. As Prime Minister he started talking hinting at revisiting the Chechen peace deal, then started getting a little more vocal about it and the "greatness of our nation" kind of stuff and then magically, little skirmishes began happening all around Chechnya. He vowed to crack down. The elections happened right then and he won by a legitimate landslide. Next thing you know a convoy of "Chechens" crashed a military checkpoint into Dagestan, apartment buildings started blowing up in Moscow, "Operation Whirlwind" was in full effect where you couldn't drive more than 2-3km without a police checkpoint, flak jackets, full tactical gear etc... and unsuprisingly, a lot of "Chechens" were caught with stolen weapons systems to smuggle out etc etc etc and next thing you know, the tanks are headed back to Grozny and Chechnya is now Russia and Putin is on his 4th term. :)

But he took a lot of dark turns along the way and now has become one of the Oligarchs he was originally fighting against.

Obama and Hillary just couldn't understand Russians. They only respect strength and power. They instinctively roll right over weakness. But there is one thing that Putin and anyone in power in Russia have never wanted and do not want... ever and that is a strong USA.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 22302142)

then this is a positive thread about the USA going in the right direction by reducing our contribution to nato by 20%. here's to hoping we withdraw the remaining 80%!

Originally Posted by kane (Post 22302424)

Do you think the country is stronger now than it was before the election? I don't. I look around and see half the country despises the President. There seems to be endless protests, white supremacists are suddenly back in the news and have a presence, and the congress is a mess. Our allies are at odds with us, our leadership is doing nothing to try to bring the country together, in fact, quite the opposite, and these are just to name a few things from the top of my head.

If you compared the country at this time in 2015 to now, I would say we are much weaker and less stable now than we were then.

Putin got exactly what he wanted.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 22302313)

I actually agree with Trump on this one. If there are NATO allies who are not meeting their promised levels of spending, they should be held accountable. We spend way too much on the military as it is, cutting back on NATO funding (so long as they don't just waste that money somewhere else, sound good to me.

Originally Posted by xClips Jim (Post 22302442)

Interesting how subjective life can be.

I feel like the country is MUCH stronger than it was before Trump's election.

In a few months, we'll know how most of the country feels.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 22302449)

it's weird thommy keeps attacking everyone for being dumb about nato yet he can't grasp the simple fact that nato countries promised to spend 2%+ of their GDPs on defense. that has nothing to do with nato budget.

Originally Posted by thommy (Post 22302450)

PROMISED LEVELS ???

NATO FOUNDING ???

what are you talking about.

I can show you a few contracts what trump fucked up even when they have been signed befor from other presidents.

show me this contract where it is written that EVERY NATO state MUST spend 2% of their GOP for defense !!!! I am really curious to see that.

and even IF that would exist (what isn´t the case) trump was the one who declared concluded contracts to be toilet paper - why do you think others should not have the same right?

best you buy him a coloring book. then he can write his decrees about the whole world in bright colors and we watch and amuse ourselves

Originally Posted by kane (Post 22302452)

That's the thing. We are in this strange grey area between now and November. Anyone left of center (at least in my experience) seems to think the country is worse off than it was pre-Trump and those right of center seem to think just the opposite.

The midterms will be a huge indicator on where the public really is right now. There are tons of people out there that feel one way or the other that nobody ever hears from, until it comes time to vote.

Originally Posted by xClips Jim (Post 22302466)

You are exactly right and it's fascinating.

IMO, it's because of fake division sowed by the MSM. How different can we REALLY be? Item by item, the reality is going to be we are very close in desires - we then need to debate how we get them. The items themselves are not so much in question - it's the how. Why so much acrimony over a how? Division.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 22302477)

While I don't for a second doubt the media's role in this, FOX news most certainly plays its part. Hannity hits the air every night and goes off about how the Mueller investigation is all a witch hunt and should be shut down and he attacks Hillary and Obama and the Left etc and on and on. Not to mention it has been reported that he speaks to Trump almost every night after he tapes his show. He and the others at FOX are doing their part to sow the seeds of discord.

That said, I agree with you that we are aren't really that different. In the end most human beings want the same things. We want to live safe, secure, prosperous, happy lives. How we get those things and what they look like is the issue. Making people fight over the minutia of those things is what helps keep our leadership in power.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 22302477)

While I don't for a second doubt the media's role in this, FOX news most certainly plays its part. Hannity hits the air every night and goes off about how the Mueller investigation is all a witch hunt and should be shut down and he attacks Hillary and Obama and the Left etc and on and on. Not to mention it has been reported that he speaks to Trump almost every night after he tapes his show. He and the others at FOX are doing their part to sow the seeds of discord.

That said, I agree with you that we are aren't really that different. In the end most human beings want the same things. We want to live safe, secure, prosperous, happy lives. How we get those things and what they look like is the issue. Making people fight over the minutia of those things is what helps keep our leadership in power.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 22302424)

Do you think the country is stronger now than it was before the election? I don't. I look around and see half the country despises the President.

Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 22302380)

:thumbsup
To be fair, Putin is a genius. He is an apex predator that is always playing chess to everyone's checkers all the time.
...

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 22302471)

Why would any Americans want to spend our tax dollars protecting hateful euros like thommy via NATO?

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 22302471)

Why would any Americans want to spend our tax dollars protecting hateful euros like thommy via NATO?

Originally Posted by kane (Post 22302459)

My understanding is that there is an agreement that the members will all spend 2% of the GDP on defense but there is no contract or anything formally, legally forcing them to spend that number.

Originally Posted by Sarn (Post 22302625)

Americans spend moni on occupation :1orglaugh Not on protection, provoke conflicts in EU it does not give safety.

Originally Posted by thommy (Post 22302638)

is Germany a captive of russia because we prefer to get our NATURAL gas through a 1200 km long pipleline instead through a 8000 km long one what would deliver environment killing frecking gas and makes us a captive of US ???

it was ok to be a captive from US for many years - but since trump NOBODY in this fucking planet wants to be that anymore. and it will never happen again even when he is gone because we call can see how unreliable and unpredictable the US system and their voters are.

Originally Posted by thommy (Post 22302638)

it was ok to be a captive from US for many years - but since trump NOBODY in this fucking planet wants to be that anymore. and it will never happen again even when he is gone because we call can see how unreliable and unpredictable the US system and their voters are.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 22302471)

Why would any Americans want to spend our tax dollars protecting hateful euros like thommy via NATO?

Originally Posted by thommy (Post 22302636)

there was an agreement that all NATO partners will increase their budget to an approximate target of 2 % in average in THE COMING YEARS.

1. Germany increased it already
2. Germany had spending of 3,15% in the financial crisis
3. The German army consists of volunteers. There's currently not even a clue what to do with the money there. Adding countries like Luxembourg and Iceland what have a small population but I quite huge GDP. What shall they buy for their army? Guns from gold ?

But last not least the biggest argument is that we have passed this days of cold war and the illusion that we could handle a conflict with a war.
the very best weapon we have is our economy.
every country want to trade with the EU and not destroy a potential customer.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 22302099)

what? the summit starts tomorrow.

Originally Posted by thommy (Post 22302438)

loooool - i am always amused about how dumb and undereducated your are.

so let´s see who contributes how much to the NATO.

USA (as the biggest country in the NATO) 21,96%
Germany 15,3 %
UK 11,9 %
France 11,72 %
Italy 8,72 %
Canada 5,5%
Spain 4,58%
Netherlands 3,34 %
Turkey 3,14 %
Norway 1,49 %
Denmark 1,42 %
Romania 0,97 %
Poland 2,3 %
Belgium 2,24 %
Czech Republic 0,9 %
Greece 0,9 %
Portugal 0,8 %
Hungary 0,69 %
Slovakia 0,41 %
Bulgaria 0,31 %
Kroatia 0,27 %
Slovenia 0,24 %
Lituania 0,2 %
Lixembourg 0,15 %
Latvia 0,14 %
Estonia 0,1 %
Albania 0,08 %
Island 0,06 %

As far as I see nearly 80% of the costs are paid by european countries.

BTW - the BUDGET of the NATO (and this is the ONLY contribution a country have to pay) is 2 billion Euro per year. From this 2 billion USA is paying like 400 million, germany 300 million and 220 million paid by france and UK and the rest comes from the european NATO countries.

I don´t know why nobody is able to explain this fact to you and your oval-office-clown.

so if he reduce this budget from 400 million 20% and pays only 320 million instead you save a fucking lot.
do you know that US pays more INTEREST on the debt you have in less than 2 minutes ????