I agree. I thought that was odd as well.

the front page used to fill up every 4 hours. gfy is hurting.

btw you guys do remember who Oracle is?

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he's part of the reason this forum went to shit, i put him on my ignore list many years ago.

no, who?

The business is actually a lot bigger than it was 10 years ago, both in traffic and in money.

The difference is that it is now controlled by big companies and not by 1000s of small affiliates.

So of course if you ask most people here (which are mostly affiliates from back in the day when everyone could make good money by doing a little work) they will say business is declining. But ask the big guys and you will find out business is still growing year after year.

The money is still there, it just ends up in different hands.

well if u don't know :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

o.g. :pimp lol

#porncms

Mainstream business analysts who used to peg it at $14 billion with a B, now estimate around $500 million with an M.

Source?

That is absolutely wrong. The money made in online porn (paysites + cams + dating) now is bigger than it has ever been in the past.

So when did you last start one?

So why are the forums doing so badly and Tubes and piracy ripping so much traffic off?

I'm retired so personal insults about my income roll off my back.

I do agree that most of the people who were in the business 15 years ago have moved to other areas and business models. How many are in porn? Even Dating is now mainstream and the skills to drive traffic are useful, but that means anyone who could of worked in a shop could have worked in porn.

Porn is about producing and selling jerk off material, so lets keep the debate on that. Not other "business models"

What did you evolve to? Selling a platform where models and small sites host their material. That's not going to replace the losses of free porn. But do tell us more about how the business has evolved, with details and examples. This was the point of the thread not for you to make claims you back up with "it's a secret".

What is a better indicator for the state of the industry than the production of porn?

I talk to agents who moved on years ago because the work is no longer there, I talk to site owners who used to have sites making 6 figure sums a month and 7 figure sums a year who sold up. What is being offered for those wanting to move on to other fields? Well we know the answer to that one. Paltry deals or split revenue deals. If the industry was making the kind of money it did make sites like plsureking's would be in the market to buy the sites going out of the business to make 100% profit rather than 10% to 20%.

Where are the indicators that the business is flourishing? So far no one in this thread has offered any proof. But the claims that it is are just that, claims without proof. Keeping something a secret because you're scared it will be copied shows how good they are. If it can be copied that easily it has been and nothing is shown.

Yes I know about the production of porn. I can tell you that it has never been so low. So offer us some proof that there are business models to replace the huge industry it was and stop trolling.

There is far more traffic than there was, is it converting and making money like 10 or more years ago?

I will agree that the large companies don't look for affiliates like they used to. Doing deals with or their own Tube sites has replaced the need for 1000s of paysites and affiliates. Does that mean the business is bigger or smaller? Well from the perspective of people who used to b site owners and affiliates it's far smaller. Can all that be replaced by a few large companies?

Online is booming and sales have never been so high. We no longer can exist without social media, online shopping, betting, dating, restaurants, bars and hotels guides, etc. Porn is now a media that's easier to get for free than it is to buy.

a retired troll wants us to reveal all the secrets and details of the current porn market because he's out of touch and hasn't made money in porn in years.

the curiosity is admirable, but the days of revealing every trick and trend is long gone. this board is one of the reasons no one does it anymore. i'm not revealing any data or info about my clients. i like paying my bills.

the people with solid data about the size of the current industry would be the billers. maybe you can convince them to reveal some insights in public. i talk to Jason at Verotel a few times a week. he's seen growth year over year. no slowdowns or industry crash. talk to Vendo. i just started working with them too. they're growing.

just because you don't know what's going on, doesn't mean its not going on lol

enjoy retirement, Paul..

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We don't need your secrets to prove porn is going stronger now than it was. We need proof that what you say is true. That can be the great conversion rates, new sites popping up, people able to rely on porn based products for their income.

I gave example of where the business has gone. Tubes and piracy now take a huge amount of our target market, putting models and porn producers out of the business. Are you claiming that now with so many getting porn for free the business is better than it was back in the day when people had to pay for porn?

I'm loving my retirement. Made easier by the money I invested during the great days of the porn industry.

*YOU* don't need anything. you're retired and irrelevant...

:winkwink:

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you still don´t get the reality.

in your eyes someone who is in porn have to sell porn. but porn revenues are not the only revenues you can make WITH porn.

and porn users are consumers like all others.

i would recommend you to go to a big "nonadult show" like AW asia in bangkok.
you face around 3000 affiliates there that do mostly not even have an own website.
and this guys are doing MUCH more revenue with traffic they are buying from pornsites as all porn affiliates together.

do you think octoberfest would get that many million people if they charge an entrance fee? do you think that all this people are only there to drink beer?

do you think free TV would exist when people have to pay for the movies?
and do you believe that revenues in freeTV are around 100 times more as they are in pay TV?

and you think there are no producers anymore?
ohoh - there are MUCH MORE producers now as we had in the "good old times".
maybe you never heard from them and it is also not obligate to know them because they are so many and they become more and more every day.

it is the good old rule of supply and demand.
people like you who have always thought that you only have to increase the offer to create more demand have always lost.
especially since you know the internet from a time when only groups with high purchasing power could afford it. but the internet has become cheaper since your early years and has therefore attracted groups with low purchasing power.

they may have less purchasing power, but they also have to spend money. just maybe not for porn and they are ten thousand times the size of the rich target group.

you think there are no business boards anymore?
well, affiliatefix.com has reached the 100.000 subscribed members in august. and they are not the only one existing.
and no there are not only mainsteam guys. i get a lot of buyers from there for our porn traffic and you will see also all the other big porn names there to get customers for traffic or find affiliates for their programs.

what really has passed are you and all the other howlers who believed evolution would stand still for them.
if a chicken is blind it can find a grain - but only until there are enough seeing chickens.

So give us some links to the porn sites with mainstream advertising on. Or is that a secret as well?

How do you know there is more porn produced today than there was 15 or 20 years ago?

As you're so knowledgeable, point us to the porn articles on affiliatefix.

No doubt there is more business done online. But show us that there's more porn business today. And more money is made from buying traffic than ever before. But to claim that means the porn industry is making more money is BS. How many free sites can afford to create their own content? Back in the day there were 1,000s of paysites who could afford to create their own content. Plus the DVD, magazines and cable markets.

Free TV is a great example. The best and most productive TV Channels are the ones people pay for. Netflix, HBO, Amazon, sport channels, etc.

just to remind you on your OWN WORDS:

do you have a small clue how much money with dating is generated on pornsites?
we do not talk here about millions we talk about billions.

do you know hwo much money is made with enhancement products?

do you know how many advertisers are selling cybercoin stuff in adult and make a revenue far higher than the complete porn member sites together??


very simple. there are actually a few 100 k amateurs producing porn videos every fucking day and sell them. do you think they would produce it if it would not work?
I personally know tonns of amateurs that even travel around the world to make their clips in paradises that you could never afford.


if you are a member there you will find them alone. affiliatefix is not a porn board but the affiliates there making more money with porntraffic in a month as "the good old industry" did in a year.

i am pretty sure today there are even more paysites around but with more paysites you do not multiplicate customers.

who is for you the porn industry?
you ?

the pron industry are those guys who are monetizing porn users on their sites.
and no matter WHAT they are selling them we still talk about porn users.
and without this users your business model would have never worked.

the one and only important thing is to GET the users on a site and make money with them. and the people who get them with porn ARE this industry.

oh i am very interested in the etc.
you mentioned 3 and might be that there are another 20 around what are really making money.

so decrease the number of existing pay pornsites to 500 only and all of them will be billionairs.
did you ever count them or have a small clue HOW MANY of them are fighting for the same limited number of willing buyers? 1 million? 2 million ? maybe more....
make 20 netflix and see where 19 of them will end.

your biggest problem is that you are a economic dumbhead - you did not even use the chances you had and you do not understand how internet is working today.

reality is not that what is living in your head - it was NEVER - not even in the times what you call THE GOOD ONES - if i am wrong show me your palace and your holiday domiciles. you was present in a time when it was possible to make a few million profit every year. where is it? did you make it? NO !!!!
so you lost already before when all of us where amateur idiots and made money and now you want to tell us know how to win today.

believe me, if I ever need business advice from you, it's just to do exactly the opposite of what you're going to tell me.

maybe you should write a book "1000 ways to not become rich" - maybe some people would buy - just to know what they certainly shouldn't do.

Thommy always drops good knowledge when he's around to post. Paul will ignore it and argue because he's stuck on his failed point that porn is dead.

good insights, Thommy :thumbsup

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He provides nothing but chatter, like you. He pulls numbers out of the air and does nothing to back them up. How does he know what was sold back in the day? All I ask for are links to the free sites carrying mainstream dating ads. So we can see if it's as big as he claims.

What we do know about adverts on free porn sites is the horrible CTR and conversion rates. If ads on porn sites were so good he could provide us proof.

How does he know "a few 100 k amateurs producing porn videos every fucking day" if that were true there would be far more sites featuring the content. Where are they?

If the Tube giants don't carry mainstream ads and dating is now mainstream, then can we assume small tubes do?

Thommy back it up with links, send me a PM if you're scared to post them here.

Sadly this is now one of the reasons that the board has gone over to political and news media subjects. Everyone knows the industry is smaller than it was, that newbies find it harder and even experienced people are leaving.

paul if you do not have eyes and contacts to the those that are running the big numbers today, it only shows me that you do not know what you are talking about.
I am not here to prove you anything and I don´t want to be your teacher.

I don't have to prove anything to those who are important to me, they already know and to those who missed the chance I don't want to prove anything to them because they don't belong in this biz and should look for another job or, like you, just retire and deny further that their know how and their farsightedness were just not enough.
I don't mourn anyone for wanting to limit the size of our market to their radius of thought.

if this is correct you just have to wait til we all die hungry - no product will survive when it has no value. So be patient MAYBE you can prove us one day that you was right :-)

have you ever heard from amateursites like mydirtyhobby, amateurcommunity, model centro ?

and this are just 3 of the hundreds around and we are already over the number of 100 k amateurs.

seems you have been sleeping in the last 15 years.

so they don´t carry mainstream AND they can not convert porn. from WHAT do they live then? why do they make 10th of millions selling advertising every month since YEARS !
why did none of their advertisers realize that they are losing millions every month? for the past 10-12 years?

as I said - I do not have to back up the fact that the world is round.
I have better things to do and it does not help the industry a shit when I prove how wrong you are.

I feel like you think I enjoy telling you how wrong you are all the time. But also with that you are wrong ! It is no fun for me but I am just a little ashamed for you. You are an old fart and I am an old fart. You may have started 1 or 2 years before me but you have thrown the towel many years before me. I have been active in this business for 22 years and therefore know all the ups and downs and all the changes this has gone through so far.

In contrast to you, I know the biz from every point of view and not only from the narrow view of a producer. I have been running free websites from day one (hardly anyone did anything else or started anything else in the 90s). I still have a large network of free sites that attract more than a million users a day.

I HAVE run Paysites for many years. I HAVE produced it myself. I have built my own affiliate program and an OWN payment system with everything that goes with it.

so I know it all better than you do. But my core competence is marketing and therefore I have focused on traffic and its marketing in my last years. That's what I do best and have seen not only my own growth but also that of my customers and partners.

I'm also not one to just jump on something new because it's there. I believe in tried and tested strategies and rules that have been in place for thousands of years and only accept new things if they don't contradict these rules.

I am ashamed of you because we are both dinosaurs. The only difference is that you represent the dinosaurs badly because you're clueless and negative.
But what the young people of the industry need are thought leaders and people who make something out of given situations, see it as an opportunity and not as an insurmountable obstacle.

So you shouldn't try to spoil the day for others with your unworldly negative theories, because if someone is to blame for your fate then it's not the fact that the world is spinning - it's the fact that you've never been willing to spin.

Thommy :thumbsup

i still make a good living in porn. i don't do any work outside porn other than the rare friend project every few years.

that means there are at least two people on this board making a living TODAY in this industry.

i personally know at least a hundred other people making a living in porn today.

adapt or die. we've had the same discussion for a decade now. many of us adapted and continue to adapt. many more, like old Paul, died, or were forced into "retirement".

just because you can't figure out how to make money anymore doesn't mean other people aren't making money. that's the dumbest theory you could believe.

#porncms

this is exactly the sense of life.
if the world would not change we all would not talk about internet and the goals - this is what paul can´t understand.

and yes there are truly a lot of "old fashioned" webmasters they make much less as 10 years ago. but that proves only one thing: They are not able to understand their market and all they had before was pure luck.

when I started my internet career I was expecting that all I need is HTML and that´s it.
and you know what? in the first few years that worked !

in the meantime I have learned so much about so many different topics that are important for our biz, that I realized that nobody in this fucking world can be good in all of that.

to be successful today you need a team or the right contacts to people that are 100% in one part where you are only 50%.

if you look back to this good old times we all have been a bunch of idots.
everybody tried to pull everbody in the biz. we helped and welcomed the biggest assholes and losers and shared a cake with people who wanted to take this cake - no matter how much they destroy the market with it.

than, when it came to the point when the boat was full, people became enemies and tried to push the others out. some created alliances for that - other bought everything what they could and others focused on what they are really good. the yesterday men did not like that. they thought it will go on as they were used it.
they forgot that you will be still a loser if you find oil in your garden if you do not have the equipment, the know how and the money to get it out there.

same as you do I know still many webmasters what are since many years in this biz and the only difference from than to now is that they make 10 times more money as before.

and yes - where winners are HAVE TO BE losers. i would say to make 10 times more money as before 6 others went to nowhere. but the sum under the result line is still higher as before when 10 idiots burned traffic to shit. as so as just ONE in that 10 knows how to make gold out of it it is the end of the 9 others.

these are things paul never experienced - he is talking about conversion rates and doe not know shit about traffic targeting.
sure you can end up with a conversion rate lower than 1:1000 if you buy traffic on CPM and the only goal is a 5% CTR.
this have nothing but nothing to do with monetizing traffic - this is KILLING potential customers because they get tired to click a fake ad what promise something what is not behind. this means to provoke people to install adblockers or simply ignore any "promise" given by advertising.

the biggest problem of our industry was that we have been focused only on one product what is an electronic one and everybody with a normal brain knew already 20 years ago that a product what can be endless copied without costs can not have a long term value.
it is the same as I would want to sell you the alphabet and you buy the next comma.

this fact was clear for me already when I started in porn 22 years ago. I knew there will be a time when we can sell it but there will come a time when we have to give it for free to attract people and sell them whatever.

before TV came up - people had no chance to see a movie for free.
so in regards to pauls arguments there should not be movie production anymore today.
but since TV the production of movies went up 10000%.

some of the former cinema owners are certainly still sitting in their old home today and imagine how nice it would have been if TV hadn't come up at all.

Others probably sit on their yachts today and enjoy life because they invested early in this development instead of demonizing them.

and here it's not only about the cinema owners but also about the many new production facilities with all their peripheral industries and suppliers about all the tv stations with millions of employees worldwide - about the millions of jobs created by the production of tv sets alone and to get the possibilities of advertising new products quickly and broadly into the market at all.

paul is trapped in a mouse hole and has always been sitting there.
he is certainly not a bad guy but unfortunately he belongs to those simple cozy people who nature has not put too much far-sightedness into the cradle.
losers don't want to know that they are losers. they will always blame everything and everyone. but especially those who belong to the winners.
this is unfortunately one of the weakest human qualities you will encounter again and again.

I was still making hella money buying/shooting content and uploading them to tubes and such just a couple months ago. And banging chicks on cam. Easiest money I ever made, much easier and better pay than my affiliate/building freesites days.

I made a personal choice to leave porn, as it's against my religion. But there's still plenty biz and money. The talk is at x*** tho. Not here.

i didn't even adapt as much as you and others. people still make millions a year with my cms so i still get paid a lot for doing the same thing.

i wish i had learned more of the industry. lucky for me and anyone else, we can always start learning new things today.

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:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Agreed, how to GFY turn into a political forum shit talking forum :Oh crap

Who needs business threads when you have Trump?


https://ig.ft.com/sites/trumps-russi...ster2small.gif

I always start some

Only two people here are trying to claim that porn is dead. In order to prove they still make a living in porn.

I'm saying that porn is a lot smaller financially than it was, not that it's dead. To illustrate that I show the huge amount of traffic that now resides on free sites, P2P site, file lockers and of course Tubes. these are not people who would never buy porn they are people who used to buy porn. Few people browse porn sites as a past time. People browse porn to jerk off or fuck, then get on with the rest of their day.

The two claiming the opposite have only been in porn online and no clue of porn prior to that.

the majority of users ALWAYS came from fee sites.
in the past it was TGPs and they could not survive because their only product was porn.
now there are even ore people on tubes as in that times you know.
but they sell whatever advertisers are willing to pay for and this is why they can survive.

I remember some big TGPs from the good old times that even blocked traffic from TIER2-countries because they did not know how to monetize them. but TIER 2 and TIER 3 are 100 times more people as you will find in TIER 1. and sure they do have a smaller buying power but they compensate that with mass.

porn is still the magnet to get all of them in huge numbers and traffic is money as long you have people that are focused on markets (what an affiliate webmaster can NEVER be).

I am not sure what kind of a man you are. but I personally do not know anybody that spends his day with jerking off. the AVERAGE holding time even on paysites was NEVER higher than 10-15 minutes.

i will give you an example:
we have a gaming advertisers since years that is promoting online games with us.
why the average holding time on the free tubes in our network is between 6 and 8 minutes the customers we send them are playing 1 hour in average there.

even though a huge percentage of people still visit porn sites, the time they spend there is by far the smallest part of their online time. and that hasn't just been the case for a few years - it's always been - with the difference that we now have about 70 times more internet users than back then...

in 1997, 70 million people worldwide had an internet connection. the current figure is over 4.5 billion.


means: you are talking about the time before jesus christ was born and we talk about NOW.

before the internet there were a handful of people who lived from porn. there were also porn cinemas where you had to go if you wanted to watch a porn (funnily enough most of them in india).

today hundreds of thousands of people live from and with porn.
you just didn't understand the word MARKET. you're just talking about that you can see in the field of vision of your blinkers.

but the porn business itself is much more and includes the complete periphery, like hosting, programming, content management, traffic management and much more.

ask brad from mojo host or another porn specialized hoster if his business has gone back in the years. because if you would be right that would be the first to feel it.

but i can already tell you what he will answer you. he will tell you that his business has multiplied but the number of customers has not.
and in plain language that means that today the cake belongs only to the clever - and you simply don't belong to them.

you belong to this species of stone-age people who do not see a solar eclipse as a natural phenomenon but as the end of the world.

I Don't understand why you waste your time explaining it to Paul Markham.

He has no clue how the adult industry works nowadays and is stubborn

I have repeatedly asked for links to Tubes or porn free sites that carry mainstream ads. I've looked myself on the big 5 and only see porn related ads. So I will ask you to show me the sites you claim are making more money than was made in porn 15 years ago.

i do not explain it actually to paul.
it would make more sense explaining it to my cat.

i only want to prevent that others than people from paul´s category believe this BS for thinking he should know more because he is a dinosaur.

tell me HOW MUCH made an average webmaster 15 years ago?

i really look forward to your answer.

For example:

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

seriously though, some really good points. I couldn't possibly count the number of women I know who shoot and produce their own content, run their own paysites and bank off either or both. just because old school producers who solely shoot others aren't needed to the same extent anymore doesn't mean the clients stopped buying.

but if it didn't exist 30 years ago it's not real, right? :upsidedow

There is some ad, overlayed and running on tube videos, that is trying to sell some e-cig pumped with a viagra ripoff. It's probably illegal but I guess it's mainstream.

If you'd like to pay a consulting fee or go to school, many would be happy to teach you how to look up mainstream business analysis the way anyone with an MBA would. It's basic.

Given that you troll with a fake avatar and no sig these days, I assume you are a sold account and very much doubt you can afford either and I very much doubt you know anything about any industry.

Why do you refuse to supply us with links to the free sites earning more from adverts that convert badly at 1-5000. Than porn sites that converted 1-300?

Am I missing something? Are you referring to P2P, file lockers and other piracy sites that allow people to download for free a wide range of products with porn being only one aspect?

Plus there was offline porn a multi $billion industry.

Plus cable, hotels and the soft porn industry.

[QUOTE=PornMySex;22361328]For example:



Blacked.com is a traditional paysite. I fail to see your point.

The parts of the industry that have boomed are those single girl/male sites, amateur and niche sites. Back in the day it was very hard for them to get published as publishers were looking for niches that sold in millions. So mainstream subjects like teens, big tits, classy, etc subjects were a safer bet.

A website can survive on a couple of hundred members. A DVD or magazine couldn't.

Pills to enhance sexual performance are sex related. Dating ads that intentionally sells dates to have sex are sex related. Dating that sells a relationship are not.

I've yet to see a porn site that carries so much mainstream advertising at such a high rate or return that it can compare with the billions made in porn 15 years ago.

The billions made in offline porn, hotels, cable, telephone sex, soft porn, etc are there for people to see.

To make more money from ads costing $5 per 1000 and a CTR of 1-35. Producing a conversion rate of 1-35,000. Will never make more than an industry converting 1-300 at a CTR of 1-10. And an industry that converted 1-3.

Adverting on openly porn sites is limited largely to porn products and we have yet to see proof that mainstream products are advertised on porn sites. Is the reluctance to show proof, linked to the fact the sites with Mainstream Ads are P2P, file lockers and other piracy sites?

The porn industry was always controlled by big companies. How many big companies today make over $100m?

Source?

Counter a statement with what you know is right rather than think is right.

My source. Decline in sales of porn.

Now give me your figures but please no Dating that isn't on a porn site.

I doubt konda sold the account...

simply because you are a moron and don´t understand that I can not point you to a site where whatever is shown because i do not know WHEN they show WHAT to WHOM.

if you would even know about advertising technology as much as my cleaning women knows you would probably know what thinks like, geo-targeting, scheduling, yield optimization and competition weights are.

but as you are dumb as an old bread I do not even try to explain you why ads on sites are not static since 15 years anymore.

possibly you will never see a bet-ad because it is forbidden in CZ.
possibly you will never see an ad of specific health products because they simply target the countries where it is allowed to promote it. possibly you will not even see a gaming ad
because it does not show up in the next hours for scheduling reasons...etc etc..

the fact is that you claim that porn is no longer a source of money, while tubes generate billions of dollars every year just from advertising alone.
if all this would not work then all advertisers of this world must be giant idiots.

sales made in the advertising industry with traditional products may still account for 20% of their sales when dating is excluded (although there is no reason to do so).
If you include dating in your calculations, it is certainly 60% of your turnover.
the share of paysite sales that work with the old-fashioned pictures and videos does not amount to more than 2 % of the total cake.

and you know what?
this 2% of the human budget for porn wasn't even higher at YOUR time.

so your gold digging times were designed to have a small number of people share around 2% of the budget of RICH users.

today's pornbiz tries to get as many budgets as possible and is based on a business model that will be a mystery to you forever because it is smart.
smart ideas don´t reach your mind.

Mindgeek, Livejasmin, chaturbate, streamate, xvideos holding company, etc....