I always start some

Only two people here are trying to claim that porn is dead. In order to prove they still make a living in porn.

I'm saying that porn is a lot smaller financially than it was, not that it's dead. To illustrate that I show the huge amount of traffic that now resides on free sites, P2P site, file lockers and of course Tubes. these are not people who would never buy porn they are people who used to buy porn. Few people browse porn sites as a past time. People browse porn to jerk off or fuck, then get on with the rest of their day.

The two claiming the opposite have only been in porn online and no clue of porn prior to that.

the majority of users ALWAYS came from fee sites.
in the past it was TGPs and they could not survive because their only product was porn.
now there are even ore people on tubes as in that times you know.
but they sell whatever advertisers are willing to pay for and this is why they can survive.

I remember some big TGPs from the good old times that even blocked traffic from TIER2-countries because they did not know how to monetize them. but TIER 2 and TIER 3 are 100 times more people as you will find in TIER 1. and sure they do have a smaller buying power but they compensate that with mass.

porn is still the magnet to get all of them in huge numbers and traffic is money as long you have people that are focused on markets (what an affiliate webmaster can NEVER be).

I am not sure what kind of a man you are. but I personally do not know anybody that spends his day with jerking off. the AVERAGE holding time even on paysites was NEVER higher than 10-15 minutes.

i will give you an example:
we have a gaming advertisers since years that is promoting online games with us.
why the average holding time on the free tubes in our network is between 6 and 8 minutes the customers we send them are playing 1 hour in average there.

even though a huge percentage of people still visit porn sites, the time they spend there is by far the smallest part of their online time. and that hasn't just been the case for a few years - it's always been - with the difference that we now have about 70 times more internet users than back then...

in 1997, 70 million people worldwide had an internet connection. the current figure is over 4.5 billion.


means: you are talking about the time before jesus christ was born and we talk about NOW.

before the internet there were a handful of people who lived from porn. there were also porn cinemas where you had to go if you wanted to watch a porn (funnily enough most of them in india).

today hundreds of thousands of people live from and with porn.
you just didn't understand the word MARKET. you're just talking about that you can see in the field of vision of your blinkers.

but the porn business itself is much more and includes the complete periphery, like hosting, programming, content management, traffic management and much more.

ask brad from mojo host or another porn specialized hoster if his business has gone back in the years. because if you would be right that would be the first to feel it.

but i can already tell you what he will answer you. he will tell you that his business has multiplied but the number of customers has not.
and in plain language that means that today the cake belongs only to the clever - and you simply don't belong to them.

you belong to this species of stone-age people who do not see a solar eclipse as a natural phenomenon but as the end of the world.

I Don't understand why you waste your time explaining it to Paul Markham.

He has no clue how the adult industry works nowadays and is stubborn

I have repeatedly asked for links to Tubes or porn free sites that carry mainstream ads. I've looked myself on the big 5 and only see porn related ads. So I will ask you to show me the sites you claim are making more money than was made in porn 15 years ago.

i do not explain it actually to paul.
it would make more sense explaining it to my cat.

i only want to prevent that others than people from paul´s category believe this BS for thinking he should know more because he is a dinosaur.

tell me HOW MUCH made an average webmaster 15 years ago?

i really look forward to your answer.

For example:

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

seriously though, some really good points. I couldn't possibly count the number of women I know who shoot and produce their own content, run their own paysites and bank off either or both. just because old school producers who solely shoot others aren't needed to the same extent anymore doesn't mean the clients stopped buying.

but if it didn't exist 30 years ago it's not real, right? :upsidedow

There is some ad, overlayed and running on tube videos, that is trying to sell some e-cig pumped with a viagra ripoff. It's probably illegal but I guess it's mainstream.

If you'd like to pay a consulting fee or go to school, many would be happy to teach you how to look up mainstream business analysis the way anyone with an MBA would. It's basic.

Given that you troll with a fake avatar and no sig these days, I assume you are a sold account and very much doubt you can afford either and I very much doubt you know anything about any industry.

Why do you refuse to supply us with links to the free sites earning more from adverts that convert badly at 1-5000. Than porn sites that converted 1-300?

Am I missing something? Are you referring to P2P, file lockers and other piracy sites that allow people to download for free a wide range of products with porn being only one aspect?

Plus there was offline porn a multi $billion industry.

Plus cable, hotels and the soft porn industry.

[QUOTE=PornMySex;22361328]For example:



Blacked.com is a traditional paysite. I fail to see your point.

The parts of the industry that have boomed are those single girl/male sites, amateur and niche sites. Back in the day it was very hard for them to get published as publishers were looking for niches that sold in millions. So mainstream subjects like teens, big tits, classy, etc subjects were a safer bet.

A website can survive on a couple of hundred members. A DVD or magazine couldn't.

Pills to enhance sexual performance are sex related. Dating ads that intentionally sells dates to have sex are sex related. Dating that sells a relationship are not.

I've yet to see a porn site that carries so much mainstream advertising at such a high rate or return that it can compare with the billions made in porn 15 years ago.

The billions made in offline porn, hotels, cable, telephone sex, soft porn, etc are there for people to see.

To make more money from ads costing $5 per 1000 and a CTR of 1-35. Producing a conversion rate of 1-35,000. Will never make more than an industry converting 1-300 at a CTR of 1-10. And an industry that converted 1-3.

Adverting on openly porn sites is limited largely to porn products and we have yet to see proof that mainstream products are advertised on porn sites. Is the reluctance to show proof, linked to the fact the sites with Mainstream Ads are P2P, file lockers and other piracy sites?

The porn industry was always controlled by big companies. How many big companies today make over $100m?

Source?

Counter a statement with what you know is right rather than think is right.

My source. Decline in sales of porn.

Now give me your figures but please no Dating that isn't on a porn site.

I doubt konda sold the account...

simply because you are a moron and don´t understand that I can not point you to a site where whatever is shown because i do not know WHEN they show WHAT to WHOM.

if you would even know about advertising technology as much as my cleaning women knows you would probably know what thinks like, geo-targeting, scheduling, yield optimization and competition weights are.

but as you are dumb as an old bread I do not even try to explain you why ads on sites are not static since 15 years anymore.

possibly you will never see a bet-ad because it is forbidden in CZ.
possibly you will never see an ad of specific health products because they simply target the countries where it is allowed to promote it. possibly you will not even see a gaming ad
because it does not show up in the next hours for scheduling reasons...etc etc..

the fact is that you claim that porn is no longer a source of money, while tubes generate billions of dollars every year just from advertising alone.
if all this would not work then all advertisers of this world must be giant idiots.

sales made in the advertising industry with traditional products may still account for 20% of their sales when dating is excluded (although there is no reason to do so).
If you include dating in your calculations, it is certainly 60% of your turnover.
the share of paysite sales that work with the old-fashioned pictures and videos does not amount to more than 2 % of the total cake.

and you know what?
this 2% of the human budget for porn wasn't even higher at YOUR time.

so your gold digging times were designed to have a small number of people share around 2% of the budget of RICH users.

today's pornbiz tries to get as many budgets as possible and is based on a business model that will be a mystery to you forever because it is smart.
smart ideas don´t reach your mind.

Mindgeek, Livejasmin, chaturbate, streamate, xvideos holding company, etc....

i can add a tonn of dating sites over 100 M revenue but i could add THOASANDS of dating companies with 10-20 million...

on top of that I could add plenty of thousand mediabuying companies that are promoting whatever on pornsites and mainstream that are spending 5 million upwards every month for media buying.

the mindgeek idea was one of the really smart ones because they bought the trafficsites and the product sites.
with trafficjunky they are able to sell the traffic to whoever is able to make more with it on high price and send all unsold traffic to their own products.

the revenue of the whole mindgeek group per years is even higher than the revenue of the complete porn industry that paul remembers.
he is a yesterday moron and you just hurt him when you try to tell him what he have missed. so in pauls world the truth have no place because the truth just would prove
that he is a blind chicken who could survive in a time when even my dog would be able to be successful.

I never had a sig...

You can check my post history and tell me again that I don't know anything about this industry. I probably have more knowledge about this industry than 99% of the people here. I have been in this industry for over 20 years and am close to many of the biggest paysite operators, billing processors, traffic and ad networks, tube network operators, etc. and that's why I know for a fact that the statement is wrong.

So true :)

Just check ANY of the big tubes...

I guess you don't know this, but these days all the ads shown are GEO and device targeted. So the ads you see in your country are not the same as other people see in their country.
A user in Germany will get ads for a German dating site, while a user in Germany that is on an Android might get ads for a social dating Android app. A user in the UK could get an ad for an Online Casino and a user from the US an ad for Penis Enlargement or Viagra or Porn Game or whatever.

That's how it works these days. Advertisers all over the world are bidding big money to target specific porn users.


Maybe the 'online porn decline' that is being referred to is people spending money on actual porn memberships or buy DVDs online. That might be true. But the money generated through online porn is definitely not declined. The ad networks are making big money, the advertisers are making big money, the media buyers are making big money. they might not run paysites or sell DVDs but all the money that is being generated still comes from online porn. And there are still plenty of huge paysites and networks that produce a lot of content + you now also have the 1000s of amateur couples that produce their own content and make money off that from the content programs on the big tubes and amateur networks. If you include that probably more porn get's produced today than ever before.

Also check the Alexa of the big tubes and big paysites, many of them continued to grow in 2018

that's the problem here. Paul just wants to argue because he's retired and has nothing else to do. meanwhile, the rest of us are checking in on this thread between our daily tasks.

when i was in Thailand, the bars and corner store benches were full of old guys wanting to debate and argue. they were done with life and just waiting for death over an iced beer. they had all the time in the world to fight about the old days versus today.

what people really want and need is actionable info they can use today. some basic pointers on how to get back in the action. that's what gfy needs to start focusing on if we want to revive the webmaster side of the industry. no one here is making money posting about politics.

ignore the dinosaur who hijacked the thread. he's just wasting our time (and money)

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THIS is called reality !

five stars from me for this posting

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

that´s exactly it. but to be a dinosaur must not mean that you are an old ignorant fart.

look, i am also over 60 (I really don´t understand that fact) but I am pretty sure that most of the young fuckers don´t beat me.

the difference between paul and me is simply that i never got to the point where i thought i knew everything. i wake up every morning and look forward to learning something new and in the breaks i think about whether what i learned yesterday still applies today.

but I forgive him, because it is part of human nature that we try to learn ONE time so that we can learn MANY times. the more there is to check then the more difficult it becomes in the old one. it is as if you would try to upgrade your 20 year old laptop to 512 Gigabyte Ram. Most people just can't do that.

ya dinosaur only means extinct :winkwink:

most people die shortly after retiring unless they keep themselves busy. Paul has decided to keep himself busy by trolling and talking shit about the industry. i have no doubt he has convinced people to quit or discouraged them from work in the industry. that's the reason he needs to be shut down. the young webmasters should be encouraged and given tools to succeed.

only a nasty ignorant bastard would discourage the next generations..

#

agree :thumbsup

Your posts used to sound really super intelligent and knowledgeable. Maybe this is just a thread you find especially irritating. Everyone has bad days sometimes. A reasonable person can debate the methodologies for estimating industry size in a market space where the CALPERS impact on funding means most companies are privately held. But there are pretty standard ways to look up what the types of analysis VC folks use are saying today versus some years back.

I doubt that anybody can analyze the correct market size especially when it comes to overlaps.

example: when a game is sold on a porn site is it mainstream or adult revenue ?
in fact it is both.

if a porn member site owner is also the owner or cooperate with his friends "find the cheapest flight site" and puts a link to it in a member are - when this user what comes from there books a flight nobody would ever count it as "porn revenue" but in fact it is.

if you have ever been on a mainstream exhibition and talked to the people there, you are going to find out that MOST of them are making money directly or indirectly from porn traffic.

if you have been on porn exhibitions in the past 2 years and saw that mass of people that offers "make money with blockchain" it has a reason. but the revenues they are generating with porn traffic would never been counted as porn revenues.

and all that will be carried in the whole periphery like hosting, design, programming, SEO and much much more.
most of them are not in a visible connection with the adult industry but all of them make money from porn traffic.

not even penis enlargement (a multi billion dollar niche) counts even remotely to "porn" even if 90 % of sales are generated on porn sites. it will always count in the category health care products or lifetsyle.

with me alone advertise 7 hooker portals . these 7 sell turn ads to their customers and clubs. is the porn turnover ? no - but it is !

i even have advertising customers who advertise their super clean amazon and ebay shops and offers with us and generate sales (otherwise they wouldn't do it). porn sales ? no ! and still a porn network and a porn master earned money because the sales were made by a user who also consumes porn.

let's move on to 3D role-playing games - I have dozens of advertisers for this stuff. But if I look at the manufacturers of these games I won't read a word about porn.

It is nearly the same as the holiday industry. all you can count there are the prices for flights and booked hotels - you will never know how much money the group was spending in restaurants and sight seeing tours.

Businesses with porn are simply easier to realize if you don't have porn on your business card. In the past, we made the mistake of seeing the bait on the hook as our product. Today we see it more and more as the bait that clears the way to a consumer's entire life budget. And this budget is 1000 times bigger than that for porn.

Of course, we still have to be sensitive about it and not overstrain the closed eyes of huge companies. But that so many such eyes are already closed today simply means that we are sitting on a huge group of people who represent an enormous purchasing power. Against this purchasing power calculated porn is a halved fly shit

But on the other hand I think it's good that the world (including some veterans) thinks we don't deserve anything. Let them keep thinking that. That protects us from envy and uncomfortable competition.

Very astute analysis of how a lot of webmasters coming out of adult make a lot of their dough today. In defining the size of the industry, I wouldn't count flight bookings sold via a pay site link, for example, but, for sure, surviving folks are trying to implement this sort of thing in multiple ways and definitely should do so as much as possible.

Super early, like 1999, I did really well for a while up selling credit cards on join pages. Eventually, they kicked me for adult, but it was nice for a bit.

Unless you are counting penis enlargement as the whole field of male urology, it seems unlikely something which can't get repeat customers could be worth quite that much, but, then again, privately held companies and customers who aren't talking, so super hard to accurately estimate. Any insight as to what that sort of thing converts at?

Don't worry, I can use a VPN to determine what country I appear to be in and my surfing history on my phone would be for mainstream products. I can surf a few dating programs to fool any advertising technology used. Or any subject you suggest.

Given that the offline companies were on a country by country basis rather than an International coverage now. There were far larger companies and a lot of small ones.

So your insistence on porn being larger than ever today is based on nothing. In fact I doubt if you know the size of publicly listed companies that were into porn back in the day.

I repeatedly asked for proof of mainstream advertising on Tubes. You refuse to show it. I can use a VPN, my mobile phone, iPad, daughters computer to surf, my wife's computer, lots of computers that have no history of surfing for porn. People claiming there's more around today could take a screen grab.

I can add a ton of porn companies over £100m revenue but i could add THOUSANDS of porn companies with $10-20 million...

Can you dispute that with evidence?

I used a VPN to pretend I came from the UK, US, Germany, etc.

What is being disputed is whether selling porn at $10 to $50 a pop on conversion rates that better than selling traffic at $5 a 1,000.

Are the ad networks, tubes, making big money from ads? Are they buying content? Could they survive a giant leap in B/W costs? If so why didn't they arrive earlier?

I only asked for proof. If it had been delivered days ago I would accept it.

I doubt if any one here knows for sure and all are guessing based on their own business and talking up their success.

I'm sure people can use this.
Brazzers runs an advert at the top of loads of Tubes. Yet.

Oorngames.adult has an advert as well.

As I said before a lot of what is being posted is based only on what people personally experience and that's a limited view. Except my views are based on seeing the real money in porn. Companies involved in porn that were worth over a $1billion dollars, many people in porn worth over $500 million.

Who today can compare?

Can anyone name the biggest porn retailer or are you all comparing online retail with offline production companies.