no one needs to exaggerate when $5k in porn is a good paycheck these days. you just don't believe anyone because its been years since you made $5k in a month.

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and i am pretty sure that you always change your browserlanuge too every time you use a new VPN.

do you think this industry is full of honks and we don´t know that VPNs are existing and how to deal with them?

do you know how many lists with IPs of this knowing VPNs are existing?

defuq? :helpme:error

:1orglaugh at least half of my cms clients make more than that, but Paul doesn't believe anyone is making that much. i make a lot more than that. thommy likely makes a lot more than me.

no one has to make shit up to impress Paul.

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What a Thread! :D Congrats Oracle!!! :pimp

well at this point it comes to a split.

your CMS customers are not really webmasters they are product sellers.

if you talk about the "good old times" nearly 100% affiliates have been webmasters what were running websites and tried to promote something on that.

in the start that was ok because everybody started with the same knowledge. it was not a big deal to get search engine traffic and ALL users were rich because poor users didn´t have internet.

if you move now in such a "gold digger time", in which practically every idiot must collect the money only from the street, it comes to the following effect:

1. many come and want that too
2. the cake that can be distributed does not get bigger
3. a cake of the same size that is divided by more eaters results in smaller pieces

during this time the number of internet connections also exploded, but only because of the lower price. that means: poorer target groups were added while the number of "hungry cake lovers" grew at the same pace.

result: even smaller pieces.

In such a situation the competition begins in which one can only stand out by being better than others which is only possible through more work and more knowledge.

Here the chaff will separate from the wheat in which one out of 10 takes 10% of the other 9 away and doubles his result.

If this one out of 10 invests this additional income in even more knowledge and begins to outsource the things he is not so good at, he will take another half of the turnover from the other 9.

Within a short time the distribution will be distributed according to the Pareto principle (80/20).

The same fight now also takes place within the 20% group, so that in this group only 20% swim at the top.

This is not magic it is a natural market rule that this happens. and it happens EVERYWHERE.

In every industry of this world 20% of the market participants make 80% of the turnover and EVERY industry equipped with brains will not try to break this irrefutable rule but will try to enlarge the cake itself.

Airlines have done this by selling not only more tickets, but also hotels, rental cars and travel insurance. And that's not all - they earn gigantic sums with the address material of their customers.

Of course you can't adapt this 100% to the porn business, but if we assume that ALL our users spend a minimal fraction of their monthly budget on porn, you MUST realize that we're dealing with just ordinary consumers whose variety of interests is 10,000 times wider than on the consumption of porn.

Clearly an amateur mountaineer can be seen much more clearly when he visits a page for mountaineers. Also, he will convert there many times better than a user who, for example, on a weather page informs. BUT also the hobby mountaineer will visit the weather page and if necessary also a porno page on the among the mass of visitors the percentage of hobby mountaineers is small but as a number seen possibly even higher than on the mountaineer page. If only 0.1 % of a tube with 5 million visitors are interested in mountaineering on the day, this already results in 5000 interested mountaineers. There are surely not so many specialized side that can show that on the day.

Admittedly, the example with the mountaineer is now a very unrealistic one but it shows what I want to point out. Because there are a lot of mainstream topics which are not so special and already by the knowledge that 80% of our visitors are men they can be narrowed down.

At the moment we are still very far away from what can be done with it. But I have seen over the years that the share of such sales has risen from 0% to over 20% of the total and the growth continues. But that would only be the DIRECT sales - but it will actually only be really exciting in the INDIRECT segment.

I also see a large increase in advertising by the "product owners" in the area of such small amateur sites. Also here some have begun to count and recognized that they must evenly not only calculate with the membership contribution, if they just start to think.

Still 2 or 3 years ago it was unthinkable that such sides can pay at all the prices which result alone from the competition and demand. Someone who has a high margin will always buy the traffic away from the one with the small margin.
However, if these product sites succeed in increasing their margins through cross sales or other actions, then they are back in the race.

Some of my customers have doubled or tripled the expected cost per conversion in the last few years.

I'm happy, my publishers are happy and my customers are happy too. And that proves once again that the one who thinks further than others will always be the winner.

So it's understandable if Paul doesn't understand this, because in many cases he CAN't see it at all and on the other hand he doesn't belong to the human species equipped with the talent of farsightedness.

If $5k a month is your starting point to making a lot of money then you're in the wrong job.

Let me inform you of why I say the porn industry makes less today than it did.

The best days of the porn industry were when there were porn shops, sex lines, cable TV stations, hotel channels, magazines, mail order, shops selling magazines. Owning porn shops was, as one owner said "A licence to print money." And the beginning of online porn.

Advertising was also a great feature then. Allowing magazines, cable and some videos to make even more money. It was bloody expensive to advertise with sex lines forced to pay a premium or kept out because the magazine owner advertised his own sex lines.

You can't build a $billion company based on million dollar sales, but Flynt, Raymond, Gold, Sullivan, etc did just that.And their sales were largely based in their home countries. Each country had it's own version of them.

Then there was the Internet at the start it run alongside offline sales, then as it progressed offline shrunk. Online created few of it's own customers, that can be seen today on the various high streets and malls where shops are closing as online sales grows.

To argue that giving away free porn has topped the income of the days when people bought in shops is ludicrous unless you can come up with an iron clad case. Don't be fooled by the argument that the Internet is now international against retail which is only national. Unless you can state countries that didn't allow and porn to be sold and now major porn surfers/customers online.

FYI. I have found dating ads on pornhub. I used my daughters machine. Can you prove they make more on selling ads giving porn away than the sales they have destroyed?

Can you prove that $30 for 100 or more video scenes makes more than $50 for 5 scenes?

I was making over $150k per year back in the day. $5k isn't a lot.

And there are people like https://www.madcheddar.com/ still making millions producing porn and you didn't adapt. Good luck.

you can thank Paul Markham

paul does not know what really big numbers are.

just an example is mydirtyhobby - it is just ONE of hundrets of huge amateursites in the market with selfmade amateur content.

in average there are around 400 new videos going online per day.

now lets assume that each of them will be downloaded in the future 1000 times and each download costs in average 9 dollars (I think they charge more).

this is a revenue per video of 9.000 dollars.

9000 x 400 per day x 365 days = 131.400.000 million revenue ONLY on videos ONLY on one page per year.

not mentioned that most of the amateurs there are selling livecams on top.

to make it easy let´s assume the the whole website has a revenue of 250.000.000 per year worldwide.

now let´s assume that this 250.000.000 are made with traffic from 20.000 small webmasters worldwide. the total payout would be 82.500.000 divided by 20.000 webmaster = 4.125 US PER YEAR or 343,75 per month.

THESE are the numbers when paul´s "good old times" had reached the top of the competition hill.

what most of you guys will not know is, that MDH was noch the very first site with this concept. there was another one before where my affiliate id was number 0003.

it was ONLY focused on the german speaking market and when i promoted it I made like 100-150 k each month with revshare.
each one of the aproximately 250 amateurs what have been there in the start made 5-6 digit every month.

after that "I found gold message" was out - the number of amateurs went within 6 month from 250 to 25.000 and the number of affiliate ids to over 50.000.
the result was, that ONLY the programm owner saw a huge increase of revenue and he was able to sell the site after just 3 years for MANY MANY millions.
but not ONE of the amateurs or affiliatess have ever seen numbers again like I have seen them in the start.

so regarding paul´s brilliant economic knowledge skills this business was broke when he sold it for more millions as paul could even imagine in his hottest dreams.

he simply can not understand that a mass industry where money is easy to make will automatically produce more competitors who have to share the cake. and only the best of those will get the biggest parts.
but in paul´s funny world the cake got smaller - and i tell you what: the same view have all of them who have lost in this game.
so the one and only thing paul has proven here again is: he is a loser and will never accept the truth because that would mean to accept that he is a loser.

this is why google, facebook, microsoft are all sharing user data now so they can promote to the person, not the page.

porn is still way behind.

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i made more than 150k my first year in porn after leaving the corporate world, and even more the 2nd year.

my point is making $60k a year now is nothing to be ashamed of or have to lie about. a webmaster working the channels 50-60 hours a week can make that these days - which is better than working for some corporation doing drone work all day.

my passive income is a lot higher than that and i still spend 60-80 hours a week on billable work.

don't talk about what's a lot because we know you don't make any.

:pimp

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There were people making more than me back in the day. There are people making more than I ever did today. The argument is.


Not whether I make more money.

So you're actually agreeing with me and against Thommy.

These days the options to get porn for free has hit the income of the porn industry bad. Today $5k is a good income. `10, 15, 20 years ago it was a poor income.

I thank you for agreeing with me.

Let's assume your numbers are pulled out of your ass.

this is your argument against simple maths?

ok - no other prove need that you are simply dumb.

only an idiot would read my post as agreeing with you..

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you need to define the industry, as Thommy keeps saying, but yes, every market on the web is bigger than "before".

the web grows daily. online revenue grows daily. if business plans evolve and adapt, business makes more every day.

http://free.porncms.com/onlinegrowth.jpg

whether you or anyone else is raking in any of that money wouldn't change the fact that its growing every year.

you're just trolling us now (or you don't understand the web)..

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Agreed other sectors are booming. But if you're using that as proof the porn industry is booming. You are wrong. Selling traffic buy giving away the product, will never make as much as selling the product. Otherwise everyone would all be doing it. Cams would be selling traffic by giving away live shows, Tubes would be paying top dollar for content, etc. They would have arrived a lot earlier and not needed to wait until the costs of hosting and B/W dropped to the levels today.

The industry I define as Porn movies/pictures, escorts, cams, chat, some dating sites, advertising on porn sites, etc.

As for trolling, I'm replying to your posts. So what are you doing?

i will ask the TV stations if they are living from selling TVs :-)

did you understand the concept of chaturbate, bongacams, cams4 and all the others ?
by the way - some of them are selling ads and other buy traffic.
very wired, is it ?

well all that is here and doing great - maybe not the old fashioned membership sites (even when they are the ones who are still buying expensive content).
but as you see it is not really nessecary. there is so much free content for the tubes. even those paysites load it up FOR FREE or even PAY for it.

you will never understand how this buisness works today and you will never understand that 50 x 50 dollar is less than 50.000 x 1 dollar.

you should rethink your definition of the porn industry - today 90% of all webmasters will possibly do a fraction of your "good old days" but 10% doing 1000% more than than.
the porn industry are this guys who get users with porn content and sell them whatever it is. this fraction you are talking about own maybe 5% share in this market. those are the s yesterday people, like you are.
they are still waiting and crying while the smart ones are making the money.

but no matter how often and how many people tell that to you - you will not believe it.
but: nobody cares what you believe or not. nobody is here to explain you the world.

repeating myself at the point lol

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Time for webmasters and those in the adult industry to take back GFY from the political trolls.

We will be sitting here waiting for these insightful posts from webmasters..

Simple fact, the hordes of people who used to come to be porn affiliate are now streaming on YouTube, twitch or selling shit on Amazon or sone of the other apps..


Manwin killed the affiliate model by buying up all the programs and traffic sites then using them to circle jerk credit cards in his get rich scheme.. you have a handful of half dead programs still trying to make it through another year before closing one by one.. The girls that uses to model are now selling their shit themselves on Reddit or myfreecams ect..

The ship sailed and the party is over for all but a few and they aren't posting here.. No one needs webmasters anymore hence why none post here.

Go away, you've posted nothing industry related in over two years. Go over to Gab or 4Chan. Fuckwit.

He posts industry stuff all the time!

He's also not an alt-right hate troll so he wouldn't be posting on 4chan or Gab, you stating that he should shows how little you know about who you're talking to :2 cents:

You're about 2 years too late in fighting for the hate trolls to stop. Members can block their posts but non members who don't know they are fake nucs have been seeing GFY flooded with hate posts for 2-3 years now. Mist serious webmasters post serious industry stuff on one of the 2 other boards now.

All his posts recently seem to be political, if I am wrong I apologise.

I admire what you're trying to do.

I did the same thing you're trying now a couple years ago.

What will happen is the other adult industry boards will copy your adult industry threads and post them to their boards, and very few people will respond in your adult threads here on GFY, if any.

The hate troll will give you a couple days of thinking you're making a difference then he'll usecall his nics to bump the hate stuff hour after hour.

One last gasp :)

I'm with you! I'll help too :thumbsup

If things continue with this political shit are I'm going to ask AVN (formally through my laywers) to erase me and all the content I have written from GFY. I don't want to be associated with this holocaust denialism or crap like that. That's not what I signed up to GFY to be a part of.

Lol, no he doesn't, quit lying. He admitted he flunked out of submitting galleries 6 years ago and only comes here to troll Republicans. He's clueless on the industry and has tried his best to turn this into a political forum.

Actually do a search on Google, I stand corrected he has posted industry stuff recently.

But he could stop adding to the political threads, I agree there.

I didn't sign up to GFY to be a part of anti-semitic holocaust denialism which is the new dark place that the forum is heading. If it continues I will be asking AVN to remove all content I have posted and my account from the forum.

that sounds a little bit too bitter to me. of course the times have changed, not because they were normal before and not normal now, but rather because they were abnormal before and now everything is approaching reality.

i've been doing marketing for over 40 years and over 30 of them i've dealt with new media. no matter how new a medium was - at the beginning everyone thought it would work according to different rules than the traditional ones. but it's not like that - because sooner or later those who have mastered these old rules will be replaced.

if you take the word webmater apart once, we basically get to the journalist's field of work - only that the webmaster had to partly fill a technical area as well. until wordpress came.
but there are no traditional media like newspapers, radios or TV that would advertise on their own risk and rely - without insight into the foreign accounting - on the fact that the customer pays even if he succeeds.

today journalists are again journalists whose job it is to generate visitors and nothing else. others take over the monetarisation - namely those who are only specialized in it and who think they are good enough to be able to do so at their own risk.

so we are back in the normality that was the only existing condition before the internet.

there is also not less money in the market. it is just in the hands of fewer people because they understood that this world is not a world for a multi-talent. it is simply too much what you have to learn in every little aspect of this industry as one could get that all.
so they where focusing on one thing but do that right.

since these new competitors compete on such a high level they will not reveal their trade secrets in any forum and expose themselves to the danger that not only the direct competitor reads along but also some stupids becomes smart and thus mutate to new competitors.

what's left to debate are a few new offers and only the old SEO theses from 1998 which have been disproved for a long time.
otherwise you can't really learn anything here and elsewhere. at best you can find out what you shouldn't do because this form of publication makes it a mass-produced commodity that you will be one ant among many.

This is true, but there is still money to be made if you take a smart approach.

The days of solely relying on affiliate income from Paysites is probably over, but there are innovative networks that people are using to great advantage, CrakRevenue is going from strength to strength and there are other verticals in the market that nobody on GFY seems to be adopting.

The trouble with the forum is that with all the political bullshit people are disinclined to share ideas here.

:thumbsup:thumbsup

Exactly, well put. Last year was one of my best ever. If I listened to all those who said adult was over, killed by tubes and Manwin, I would have packed it in long ago.

absolutely and as you can see on nathalie´s post before we are not the only ones that have this experience.

actually there is so much to do for people who have deep and specialized skills.

i can´t remember that there have been a lot of people in the good old times just offering server administration (not hosting) today I know so many that have problems to find more employees as they have so much work to do.

designers, text-providers, CSS -specialists, media-buyers, traffic analysts and and and... all new jobs that did not exist in the "good old times".

and this is exactly what happens when people are too stupid to admit that they are to blame for their own misfortune. these people simply cannot and do not want to admit that once in their lives the virgin came to the child and talked themselves into believing that it is solely due to their own ability.
it's like a lottery winner claiming he has the talent to know the right numbers.

when happiness leaves such people they are helpless and look for guilty ones. people who look or think differently are then the most popular goals - especially if you don't face them directly and have to tell them in the face.

it hurts so much when i have to listen to these people explain the world economy or the stock market volatility, i wonder how they managed to catch the money when it was raining money.

with this basic knowledge below zero, it can't be possible to exist in a world where there are many clever and educated people. if that were the case, we wouldn't need any education at all and just dream the reality the way we want it.

All great insights Thommy.

I hope GFY can be saved though, if it can't I'm out of here and GFY can wipe my existence from the board.

Go get em' :ak47::BangBang:

You're a libertarian aren't you..