the porn industry in the internet was ALWAYS a trafficindustry.
there is no difference if you buy traffic on revshare, on CPA or per click - it is just another payment model.

you are not only a dreamer you are also a liar.
the venus had NEVER in the entire existance 5 halls for porn producers - not even 1 hall could ever be filled with them.

the venus was mainly a b2c exhibition with sex toys etc.

we just do not need to sell the crap you sold.
we give it for free and make 100 times more money.

i don´t know what you are doing in an adult internet forum where nobody is interested to sell DVDs or videotapes. we also are not interested to sell horse shoes.

you are such a clown - someone should book you for the next exhibition. there you can explain your view of the world to the people. they will piss themselves laughing and you might finally become a star-clown.

let´s see. i did not plan anything yet for 2020 except TES in portugal.
but i will not do more than 4 or 5 shows next year - it is always a mess for me with the flights.

If you are in the adult business, you are in fact in the porn business. Same thing.

I think his point being it's slightly more acceptable and user-friendly to put "adult entertainment" on your business card or resume - than "the porn business."

Affiliate Ponzi scam dried out .... :2 cents:

Right. A prostitute or a hooker. Same shit no matter how you slice it.

Indeed. Actually all those porn models are prostitutes.

So anyone selling them would be pimps.

Some of the replies in this thread shows what people in the business think of what we do and believe that doing something toned down will make us more acceptable. We sell and create porn and think naked girls at a show will get us a bad image!!!!!!!!!!! :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Most models are cam models. Go to a Webcam Summit organised by chaturbate etcetra and you see more woman than man. They don't need the middle man.

Maybe it is time for you to go to a swingersclub and leave your camera home.

no that was not my point.

adult-biz in internet did not really start with selling porn pics.
it started with sex-shops and sex-dating mostly.

later we sold pics and later also videos and the affiliate pyramid model made it easy for everybody to be the owner of an affiliate program.

the really big booms in this industry have been based on scams called dialer and mobile subscriptions.

for both of it content was not important. they could be done with 10 pictures or 5 videos and some of them had not even that.
but with both of this scams the real billions where made.

the business with members areas seems to be huge as long as you have only a few of them and as long you are dealing with rich users (when internet was expensive 100% of the few users had a huge buying power).

but in compare to the rest of the money that is made in internet porn is and always was a little peanut.

a webmaster that was working with porn in the 90s and beginning of the new millenium had no other product to sell than porn, because nobody wanted to advertise on porn sites. this was the time when a few thousands of member sites made 50% of the revenue and the other 50% went to adultfriendfinder and a few sex shops.

so actually adultfriendfinder alone was the same size as ALL content selling sites together.

than dialers came up and if you would own a site where just 5% of the traffic came from europe you would make with this 5% around 20 times more as with the 95% from countries where dialers did not exist.
in this time we blocked traffic from US and other TIER1 countries or send them to paysites with a redirect - because they still made a few 1000 extra but those where peanuts.

the next big hype came with mobile subscriptions.
in the years when mobile got big nearly no membersite did even work on mobile.

in 2006 aproximately 6% of our traffic was mobile and this 6% made 95% of the total revenue.
the funny thing was that not one mobile offer was porn - in most countries not even titts have been allowed.
in 2011 and 2012 i made with just mobile redirects around 50.000 € PER DAY !!!!
and we did not target niches or HQ-stuff as it was impossible to deliver it via mobile.
all what we looked at was country, OS and mobile carrier and send them directly to a signup page.

today all this things are history and if free porn would not bring this huge numbers of users the biz would be gone already.

now finally the biz model is to use free porn to get the big numbers and sell adspace to everybody who is interested in this group.
smart advertisers know that wankers do not wank all day long. in the rest of the time they are ordinary consumers that spend money for everything.

today we have a situation where the income of porn sites is still 70% depending on dating. but alone this revenues are 100 times more than all revenues from porn member sites together.
but even the "real porn sales" (selling videos and pictures) do not need markhams.
90% of this revenues are made through amateur sites with selfproduced videos.
and they still sell a single video for 10 dollar while you can get a membership on a video site with thousands of videos for 7,99 per month.

all this are FACTS and this facts in sum should enlighten paul that not the tubes killed this market - there was nothing to kill - it was NEVER a big goal and time killed it.

there is a number about porn consumption from 2000 til today.
in compare to the complete buying power of ALL users on all pornsites this users ALWAYS spend 0,26% of their budget for porn. it WAS like that and it still IS like that.

that means that paul believes, that a dick with a length of 0,26 inches is the biggest dick in the world, because he have never seen a bigger one.

porn internet today is dealing with users that are attracted with porn. but the products that are advertised there are mostly not porn. simply because no classic porn site can afford to to buy this traffic because their lifetime value will never pay for the costs.

and even if you would take ALL FREE PORN out of the internet it would not make the cake bigger. and even IF it would become bigger it is always in relation to the number of people who want to eat from this cake.
this is why we do not need to focus on one little cake - we focus on thousand of cakes of different sizes.

How much do you charge for a BJ?


Did he tip you good? Did he pay you extra for the rimjob?

The difference between offline and online porn shows is online was unwilling to allow customers into shows while offline welcomed them. So offline shows were huge and online shows small. At the same time and location.

Offline were doing deals talking business and making more money than online because of this.

Letting in the general public was a great boost, charging them reduced stands cost, allowed companies to promote themselves to customers, showed off models to customers, gave the press an excuse to cover the event even to the extent of TV media turning up.

Trade only days and areas allowed business to be done. We thought it better to exclude the public. This resulted in Brussels offline shows being bigger than Vegas online shows. Anyone suggesting the offline companies were spending money to look cool is more stupid than I thought. We were kings at wasting money to look cool.

Anyone suggesting business isn't done at night in the bar is also stupid. Every trade show has a hotel designated for the trade, so deals can be done.

Glad your arm is doing fine, Paul . . .

google translate? not sure I understand your post :(

I've never viewed webmasters as being in adult', from my perspective as a producer. I veined myself as a photographer, however I had to 'hide' what I was doing. i think webmasters can work at Starbucks, hence not in adult.

the visuals are everything these days :2 cents:

too much for you

Online porn has come from offline shows?

webmasters are like the adult store clerks who sell porn movies, mags, toys, etc...

It has nothing to do with industry insiders' thoughts about porn being good or bad. In the earlier days, law enforcement was lax with regards to porn shows. Times have changed regarding nudity at shows because show operators are now concerned that law enforcement could possibly shut down their shows based on perceived prostitution. If law enforcement thought there was a public orgy taking place, everyone there would get arrested.

Most early sales came from offline porn.

Stop thinking of America being the only place. Europe is more relaxed.

Did you go to the Miami shows and see all the girls in bikinis?

Took me ages to type that. :(

The business has shrunk, companies can no longer afford to overspend on shows. Add the costs of a stand, staff, hotel, flights or even just attending a show and it's obvious the costs are too much now against the returns.

15 years ago no one cared about the ROI of a show blowing high 5 or 6 figures showed you were capable of doing it. Today people are making less and spending less, so going to a show has to be profitable and with modern technology person to person business can be done from home.

The ROI has also dropped because it's mostly the same people going to adult B2B shows, month after month, quarter after quarter, year after year. Why spend 5 or 6 figures at a show when there are few new business opportunities?

Does law enforcement allow public orgies at European shows?

There's a huge difference, as girls in bikinis are not showing their genitals.

It does , but it differ from country to country. That is why some performers doing sex act with sheet in order to stay compliant with law.

And we all know how good most of them are.

This discussion is unbelievable, because we have people in the porn industry discussing the value of having porn at a show.

What next a car show where people debate if they should have cars at the show?

I understand the law limits what can be shown, but a porn show should feature porn. If attendees aren't interested in porn they are like store clerks useless.

the only one that is useless is you because you babbling about things that you never understood and will never understand.

if you or any other of the past time honks would really make that much money in this times I wonder why none of you can enjoy his millionair life ?

show me one that agrees with you and can afford to buy a used bicycle from his own money.

old fucktards that got asskicked when the real (but a bit more complicated) chances came up.

obviously you can't even earn enough money if it hits you on the head. so don't tell us anything about your entrepreneur genius, because you never were one and you are much less today.

Can y'all hurry up and die already?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhTuYKR-ejo

I know a couple of the pioneers in the DVD / VHS / broadcast world very well and neither one of them have any clue who Paul is. They also don't live in a shack in Eastern Europe. :1orglaugh

No reason has been given why a porn show doesn't feature porn unless the law forbids it and the cost is beyond most companies.

So nerds retreat to personnel abuse because they have nothing left.

that´s what i say.
I also know a lot of them and many of them are still in biz. they have just adapted the new concept and are still doing good as usual.

i don't really care what others do and think but i will never understand that people who just couldn't see over the mountain then later say there is nothing behind the mountain.

the times paul knows were the beginning times of the internet and they were as good as the beginning times of the cinema where you had to pre-order tickets for weeks because there were only a few of them.

paul didn't invent the internet or pornography. he didn't find any techniques to transfer the whole thing to the net or to think up a way to pay online.

none of it was invented just for porn and the internet is therefore a future business because all this applies to everything.

So he didn't get the idea of the internet and he still believes that all this was created just for his benefit.

people like paul never understood that they could only earn money because the real professionals weren't running yet.
as soon as someone with a brain shows up, all these amateurs have to throw in the towel.

i bet paul sits at home in front of his goldfish bowl and says to the fish: i told you not to jump in there - now you have to drown!

Or you could answer the question about why you live in that shithole with no money to your name when you are as smart as you claim....

the years before my mother died with over 90, she was telling me every day that she spoke with here own mother, who was sitting in a tree in our garden.

nobody was able to explain her that her mother was already dead over 50 years NOBODY!

I am also over 60 and i fear nothing more than the day when I think that all I know is an unchangeable fact. I hope I will die before I am another paul.

Why answer a lie?

Give us good reasons a porn show doesn't feature porn?

What is it that the site of naked people would deter people from doing business?

Why would opening up shows to paying customers, with designated trade only areas, be a bad thing?

You think knowing and experiencing how offline shows used to be makes someone claim he's smart. When all it took was being there. You're not very bright.

Like people who think a magazine photographer would be known by DVD / VHS / broadcast people. Different sides of the industry. Ask magazine and online people.

Stop insulting Brno just because Paul lives here...

This.

The other driver of boobs and parties was always to gather up as many idiot webmasters as possible. Back in the day there were plenty of guys who got into the business because they were losers looking at naked pictures all day and fell into a way to make money from it. Businesses were simply giving those rabble who lived the life what they wanted while they were valuable. Those people are no longer valuable and most of them have returned to their former jobs in fast food.

Quite frankly, its difficult to convince me that I need to go to ANY show now. I can fly into a city, see the couple people who are important to me, and fly home. A good dinner, a good night out, and no embarrassing bottom feeder with a porn teeshirt explaining how you are both pornographers.

Those of us who SELL the life simply have no time or need for those of you still trying to LIVE the life.

THIS is what paul does not understand.
the biz in this days was that easy that every moron could make money.
and as soon as it is public that there is money on the street the ones with skills will show up and take it over.


well, marketing in general does mostly not only include the people you already know (if so you are lucky). an exhibition is always a chance to make new contacts - even when you will not need them today. but in some future you will.

or we see it as a job - no butcher will go to an exhibition to see how pigs get killed.
if this is the reason why he makes his job he is so wrong in his biz as one who is in the pornbiz because he can watch porn.

Even back in the day (I started going to the shows in 1998 or 1999) I didn't understand why there were many booths and parties with nude girls and even live sex etc. To me it always felt like a sausage party filled with weird guys that lived in their moms basements and never had sex or seen naked girls in real life before and old dirty content producer guys. For me in my late teens/early twenties this was very creepy, I really saw them as dirty creepy guys. I came to the shows to make new contacts for credit card processors, content deals, traffic deals, new products, learn about the latest marketing methods etc. I had no desire to watch some people having sex or nude girls masturbating together with 100+ other guys. If I wanted to see nude girls I'd go to a nice club and pick up a girl there.

Real business was always done at the private dinners and parties at high end nightclubs (and some in strip clubs and suite parties that did have nude girls, but that didn't feel so creepy) and that is still happening today. A lot of big business for the online adult industry now even gets done in shows that don't even officially allow any adult/nudity such as Affiliate World.

I don't think it has to do with age. Back then most of the guys in the business, especially on the marketing end, were guys that sat at their house or moms basement making easy money without any skill and investment. Now it is taken over by professional corporations, and smart media buyers who don't need to see nude girls in a room filled with guys.

There is so much going on in this industry that most guys here don't seem to have any idea about. Most guys seem to have no idea where all the money is flowing and how or what kind of people are making the money now. To today's people it doesn't matter what exact product they sell, as long as it has a good ROI.