Which I pointed out in my original post. It would help if people came clean and told us how they earn a living today. I'll wager few will say 100% in paid for porn.

The skill set to be a "blacksmith" is far more than "changing tyres".

Tell us what quality paysites you're refering to and I will post a Torrent and Tubes link to their content.

Porn was gutted by giving it away for free.

well - since you were alive when they were still changing irons on horses regularly I am going to believe you on that :winkwink:

The thread is about the industry not any individual. The few recorded porn paysites that survive will be the owners of a truly exclusive product and the tube owning mega sites. Like Brazzers. Check out the free alternative for the top sites. They're losing millions a day to free loaders.

Most have already moved on the few left aren't making what we made 5, 10, 20 years ago. As Stefan so wisely points out we're all becoming blacksmiths in an of the car. A few will survive and claim the indstry has never done better!!! :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

It's interesting to see what people think or know about OF. This I do know, "fool me once and it's shame on you, fool me twice and it's shame on you". In this market that eans goodbye I'll get my porn for free. So it's imperative OF keeps the buyers happy month after month.

With so many girls, so many videos and a limit to what a girl can shoot for herself they limit the selection. We've seen what happens when the consumer is drowned in a deluge of mediocre content. They prefer to keep their money in their pockets and go for the free options. This will effect the Live Cams market with solo girls promoting themselves winning agains the studio option. Because a girl working for herself can make so much more money therefprebe able to deliver a better product.

thanks for calling me wise and also making my point.

a few blacksmiths still exist, many do have a monopoly in the area where they are located, and I am sure many of those make a good living. :thumbsup

I know one blacksmith, he makes money by exhibiting on medieval fairs and selling products which he is making.

There will always be porn and people making a living from porn, as I've said this isn't about the individuals. It's about the entire industry and the future.

As far as having a monopoly in anything online. You have to be so big others can't copy or don't want to bother to copy. The downfall of the industry started when any one could open a site.

That is exactly what we do ( as you know :winkwink:)... and as to Torrents and Tubes ? We fight them daily !

There is an old American saying: If you are going to be the last buggy whip salesman in a world filled with automobiles then better to sell the best buggy whips in town.

There will always be a segment of any audience, adult or mainstream, that will never pay for anything. Some will pay for whatever, some will always look for a better deal, some buy out of convenience or impulse...there are many types of consumers to market to.

But of course you know this. These comments are for the non-wise among us. :)

Welcome Captain Obvious.

The question is about the size of the consuming public who are willing to fork out money and our ability to keep them happy. Is it growing, shrinking or stable? What are they consuming quality or hobled together sites produced on a tight budget or taking a % of sales. Like OF.

Moving from being a blacksmith to changing tyres isn't answering the question about the industry. Already 1,000s have left the industry completely and it continues on a daily basis as sites no longer pay, no longer convert enough to pay, etc.

The notion that it's only content providers who have suffered is nonsense. This is one of how many boards left inthe industry, where have all the posters gone? Site owners, Affiliates, Designers, processors, etc have all gone.

I am doing just fine and am NOT Brazzers or any such " volume cruncher and recycler":2 cents:

:upsidedow

VR + Robots :2 cents:

Are you making as much from your site as you did 10 years ago? Be honest.

Most people in the recorded porn end of the business, the largest part of the consumption, will say no. There comes a point when the production of new exceeds the profits so that gets cut, next are the affiliates support, next affiliate pages, then the site runs on recycled.

With girls working from home on web cam the same is happening to the foriegn studio girls. Because the client is going for the girls speaking in his langauge and with the majority of our business based in America and English speaking they prefer that market. Girls promoting themselves don't need affiliates, designers or even a huge website. Once they learn to do everything themselves and take 100% of the money paid. It will grow and OF shows how easy it is to set up. The problem for sites like OF, Chattbaite, etc is what can they provide to warrant their slice of a girls work?

I am making more, because I have more original movies. I have about 2,000 loyal clients who do NOT go to pirates ever. They come back every time. Also, I have repeated models over and over because we treat and "baby them" like movie stars and do NOT pay them by scenes ( I also run a mainstream production business, so I know what makes them happy). You maybe confusing a cheap porn shoot with classy glamour movie with story, shot in our own 50,000,000 sq ft 4 stage film studio and full post-production. The clientele is also much different. Generally not a subject to economic stresses. :thumbsup

Then you will be oneof the few survivors. What do you think will happen to the rest of the industry?

Porn as ever will stay. I also believe that it will be all about fresh new content. All of the re-cyclers, tube hacks and thieves, got three things wrong:

1) Customers are stupid.
2) Nobody wants to pay for quality.
3) Affiliates are great

Hence you see the same crap over and over everywhere and they all live from clicks usually accidental clicks where customers are looking for something new. Soon, every Botoxed and tattooed camwhore will look like another camwhore. As the clicks decrease the answer of these hacks is simple " get more tubes, steal more content". So you see even here people with 100 + sites, diluting other hacks of their clicks. Sooner or later these "click counters" will NOT get the clicks and the add servers will stop serving and the affiliate paymasters will go one after another out of business. You can just look at my posts with Queen's " Another Bites the Dust". There is almost one/per week not paying or going out of business. :thumbsup

In short ALL of the " recycling click scams" sooner or later will run out of steam ( lets hope that it is sooner) and we'll get back to normal. Making and selling content. The analogy between mainstream media and porn is palpable. Yes, you can watch " MASH" many times over BUT if nothing new is created recycling MASH will NOT make anybody rich and will turn people off who will then look elsewhere for entertainment.

There's so many free porn everywhere than ...

https://thumb-p2.xhcdn.com/a/NMIEovK...2/642_1000.jpg

There are fundemental problem with your synopsis.

1. The skills set to produce the top level of porn and keep it fresh.
2. The money required to shoot such porn.
3. The return on investment.

We've seen the bottom of the barrel slip and fail over the last ten years. Most have gone to the wall or on their way to it. A few still make some money by deals with companies that offer 50-100s of sites for $30 a month memberships.

Next will be the fall of the middle rank, finally only a very few will be left.

Remember I'm talking 5-10 years.

The other problem with your synopsis is I was around when there was no ceiling on porn as far as budgets were concerned. Hustler, Private, Playboy, etc were able to spend what ever was needed to produce a product that blew away the opposition. People like Andrew Blake, Marc Dorcel, Jules Jordan, etc. Producing movies of this quality because spending $100,000 to $1,000,000 on a film was possible.

The problem is the consumer never wanted that level of porn except with a few niches and a few suppliers. If another company came into your market and produced a clone of your content, your membership would have 2 options to choose from. Imagine ten people producing clones of your content.

This is the ultimate problem with porn and the internet. Any fool can point a camera, open a site, drive traffic and it took a couple of years to flood the market. By 2000 the consumer was over supplied with porn the problem was finding producers who could produce a good product for what the market could afford. Today it's a real struggle, tomorrow it will get harder. Because 99.99% of the consumers can get off with what's offered today.

To survive we need something to throttle supply like "shelf space". :1orglaugh

And all of the movies you list, contain a link to watch them for free on a tube site!

Sure, they are 'old' but when people made them, you couldn't see them for free. So what would be the point in spending that kind of money today? It's still 'Possible' today. Just pointless. :2 cents:

I covered that in this thread https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-b...rket-size.html

Just change mousetraps to porn.

I beg to disagree with you. You are comparing shit to gold. When shoe salesmen are making adult entertainment, then this is what you get... shit. Anyway, I am not debating this any more, it is like discussing Covid 19 and wearing a mask :1orglaugh

Paul is trying to "suck and blow" at the same time. I remember his " content is a king days"...with which I have wholeheartedly agreed with, now he is just another volume dealer :2 cents:

Content is king, because the sites with the most content on get the most traffic.

Do you do nothingbut produce porn from your 50,000,000 sq ft 4 stage film studio and full post-production premisesor does it do other things?

How many scenes do you produce a year?

Do the models and crew do nothing else but produce the porn you sell?

You assume the whole industry can work based on your model. It never could or will. You're in small niche producing a few great quality scenes and all power to you. Just don't kid yourself or us that it suits the entire industry.

Not the same - Using mousetraps as porn per your example:

You want to be the only person producing porn, therefore the only person people can get porn from, and you want to charge what you like for it. Well OK, nice fantasy...

You also don't want anyone else to produce any porn other than yours, and complain when they do so that it isn't as good as yours is, and not shot the correct way like yours is etc.

Actually, that's not so much an analogy, as a brief synopsis of your time on GFY... :1orglaugh

Paul is obsessed with how much money people make NOW vs. how much those same people (or people like them) made 10-20 years ago. I'm sorry Paul but where is it written that a company (or Industry) must have never ending growth?

Markets breathe. They expand, grow and shrink. As discussed many, many times before the REVENUE in the "adult industry" has grown 100x since 10 years ago. It's just not going to Paul Markham-like paysites. Therefore, according to Paul with his myopic view of life, the Industry is shrinking.

In other words, more money is being generated online NOW then it was 10-20 years ago. The money however is going directly to models (the horror!), big companies and those of us clever enough to figure out how to market in these crazy changing times.

I would be happy if the revenue was the same as 10-20 years ago. Sadly it's shrinking revenue wise. Even the large sites are suffering because of the endless flow towards Tubes as they cut back on costs.

The number of programs not paying prove the state of the industry, the number of affiliates around. The numbers consuming their porn for free prove you're wrong, 20 years ago would mean 2000, well in 2000 if you wanted to jerk off to porn you had to buy it or put up with some random images or a borrowed video or magazine.

You claim models are making the money, prove it. Just because some are able to earn a living without using affiliates and other people's sites doesn't mean there is more money in the business. They mostly produce a very limited form of porn, camera on a tripod, solo girl or couple perform.

As for your claim of being able to figure out how to market your sites, no marketing tricks get past the the level of content offered. It has to really appeal to the consumer to back up marketing, as celandina says stop assuming the consumer fooled by your marketing. He see samples and decides on the quality of those samples whether he wants to spend money. This applies to all porn, models working on their own, paysites, Cams etc.

Interactive Brands owns all those swipe right companies. Top shareholders and board members currently offshore in their yachts.

If they're doing anything, they're chatting with the card companies to make sure those camgirls can never get paid directly without a middleman.

Swipe Right means the dating app companies like Tinder and Grindr.

No one can stop girls going independent while Paypal, Paxum, Bitcoin etc exist. A girl workingmfor herself makes 90% of the income a girl in a studio makes 20% and competes with 1,000s of other girls in a studio.

To survive long term the "studio" side of the industry has to reprioritise and give the independent models a bigger cut. Throwing traffic at a model is no longer the great option it was.

Yes, that's the point YOU will be able to find the torrent links or the free tubes.

Keep in mind there are people that don't know shit about that and don't want to spend hours and hours finding the free way to get it.

The one that want to spend time looking for something free instead of looking to save time spending money is the one that it's the right client

Most of our business is mainstream TV and movies, our adult is just a sideline ( but fun :1orglaugh especially since there are girls only, NO boys) . Also you have added 000 to the studio size :winkwink:

We do NOT produce scenes, we make feature length erotic movies ( used to be called "erotic thrillers"). We make maybe 3 to 4 per year.

Then your porn business model can't be used as a template for the industies,or part of it, survival. Even top companiesare suffering because of the ease of getting porn for free.

It's so easy to download from a Torrent or watch porn on a Tube 99.99% of our consumers new do it.

Our mainstream business and adult business are completely separate. If the adult stuff did NOT pay for itself and did NOT made profit, it would NEVER be funded. But I do NOT want to argue... so OK, if you think so :thumbsup

100% in paid for porn.

Note, had to double check the date as I figured someone bumped this from 10 years ago :upsidedow

I'm not saying you don't earn a profit from your sites. I'm saying your model can't be used as an exampleof the state of the industry.

That's good for you. Are there as many today who can claim the same as there was 10years ago?

This isn't a thread about the individuals earning from online porn, it's about the industry and it's future.