100:glugglug

And all of those are still... dogs.

We still can't successfully breed a dog and a bird. Or a sheep and a farm boy. :1orglaugh

what about the in-betweens between your father's sperm and your mom's egg?

Think about it...

you go from your father going around all his life looking for a mate... he finds your mom...

then, 1 little buddy out of hundreds of billions of little spermatozoids he created in his life go and find his way through your mom's tubes all the way up to her egg (1 out of hundreds she produced in her life)


They both combine and create 1 single cell that holds the dna information... half from your father, half from your mom...


Then, it multiplies ITSELF into a circle of cells... Your ASSHOLE (blastocoel) was created. (for real.) That's the Donnut shape aggregation of cells, then goes the evolution from your asshole to the foetus, then to you. SO, YOU ... a single human being, got the jackpot out of MILLIONS of other contestant to be the chosen one... THEN, you evolved all the way from one single cell to yourself today.


Now, tell me, did my little story sound extravagant, or hard to believe? To me, this proven fact about birth sounds way harder to believe (although true) compared to believeing that some animal, (monkey) evolved to fit his environment in a better way over 1 million years...

after all, if you think that you get one kid every 20 years, that is 50.000 generations to weed out each individual that wasn't fit for its environment...


[edit: I didn't mean to be rude or in any way disrespectful in taking your parents and you as an example, if it sounds like it]

the only limiting factor in achieving any of those things, is time.

the two completely different dogs pictured are labeled that by us. I doubt an alien visitor would identify them as the same.

at a certain point, animals that came from the same genetic line become so different from eahother that they cannot produce offspring and/or the offspring are infertile.
ex. horses and donkeys are currently at that stage.

Personally I believe in God and evolution. It's obvious that humans and all living things have evolved over time, which I believe is the purpose of life.

I believe the human body is just a vehicle for the soul and that we are here to learn. If you notice over time, humans haven't just evolved physically, but mentally we are definitely use a higher percentage of our brains. I think our ultimate goal is to use 100% of our brains and gain all knowledge possible. I believe that if we learn to use 100% of our brains, we wouldn't even need a body (See reference in movie Powder)

I believe there are other universes and God, who has no weight or body, is a force of energy that knows all but created humans and other species as vehicles to experience things literally.

I don't know exactly, but I absolutely believe in evolution and I also believe in creation. I don't believe it's exclusively one or the other. I'm a big fan of Sylvia Browne and her Novice Spiritus "religion", which talks about the Other Side and why we are here. I have no proof of God or of a soul, but like I have said many times, if I am going to believe in SOMETHING in my life, I believe in this more than any other religion or science.

Whether it's true or not, it makes life much more pleasant to believe we are here for a higher purpose than just evolving from cells accidentally. I like to believe it's all part of a master plan and that the soul never dies, it can incarnate as many times as it chooses to learn from life. Even if a soul incarnates as a cause fighter, and dies as an infant... that STILL serves a purpose in life. We learn about the disease it died from or from the accidental death that it had or from a murderous death. From all of these things, we learn and that soul returns back to the other side, leaving information and knowledge for the humans behind to learn from.

Like I have said before, if our mission is to learn everything and experience it (the entire human species) we cannot do this in a perfect world, like Heaven. We need to have problems and imperfections in this world, to learn from them. I believe the soul's purpose is to learn everything possible and to also learn how to love everyone equally. The majority of people in the world are "good" people, but there is always room for improvement. I believe in all the messengers, Jesus, Buddah etc... they came to teach us that God is not malicious and hateful like he is portrayed in the old testament. I believe EVERYTHING in life serves a purpose and that the soul does in fact go on and the ones who deny God, keep reincarnating until they accept God and become "good".

Ever see a child prodigy? One very gifted, in same music or drawing or graduating college at age 7? I believe they came into this world, with those talents and brain power, from having experience in previous lives. I believe we all have one soul and can have many, many lives and that eternity, is boundless and timeless, so a mere 80 years living on earth, is nothing compared to forever and ever, but if humans and other creatures lived forever without dying, our resources we all be used up and we would have run out of room LONG ago.

Evolution? Yes. God? Yes. Whether God is an "alien" or spirit or whatever, I believe there is a creator with both male and female attributes. I am open minded and love hearing about new points of view, but from everything I have heard of, I like this theory the best :) When I die and I am wrong, doesn't matter does it :1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

Um... we have scientific AND photographic proof of each step along the way. Where's the proof of the "in-betweens" that go from monkey to human? No fossils? The process took millions of years, but no evidence exists?

Exactly! :thumbsup

You clearly know absolutely nothing about evolution and natural selection.

You are fucking naive.

I don't believe photo was invented back then ;)


we also proved that LIFE can be created out of thin air.... and have proof for that as well..


all it took was some very specific elements, and a high charge of energy... then boom, a single cell was created.


scientists produced that in a lab...


but no one so far has been able to Create something out of NOTHING at all...

that's why I do believe in God... for the first elements had to be created, somehow... but then, who created God if creation is the truth? thats just something too hard to answer for me, so I try not to question it too much... there's a begining to everything, and I believe it's part of both ;)

Australopithecus Africanus
Australopithecus Afarensis
Homo Habilis

Do a google search for more.

Dimwit.

ROFLMAO! Hey...to each his own. You're beliefs are your beliefs..and you're welcome to them. But a Ford Fairlane fender can't be compaired to proteins and amino acids. You should watch National Geographic for about 2 years straight.

Thin air and high charges of energy had to be CREATED to produce that life, right?

:thumbsup

All reputable scientists agree that a "missing link" is yet to be found.

that's evolution my friend.... evolution of anthropology ;)


it'll come...


for how long did astrology stay stagnant at believing we were the center of the world?

now they're taking pictures of other galaxies.... and are working on even better tools to take pictures of earth-size planets in other galaxies, and possibly prove life is possible there according to the atmosphere they can analyze from light-years away ;)


all I'm saying is because it's not yet in the books and all 100% defined doesn't mean it's not the truth... the current proofs lead to that belief... that's what a scientific deduction is....

Like DonovanPhillips said about the dogs...

I do not believe humans evolved from apes or any other species. It's not possible. You can breed Rottweilers and Poodles, but ultimately you still have a dog species. There has been no species that has morphed into a new one. Birds don't breed with lions etc. A Chinese person can recreate with a black person, but that still makes them a human, not any type of newly evolved species.

There is no proof of this happening, anywhere, with any types of species. So therefore, I don't believe all living things evolved from one single cell and procreated from there, on it's own. While it's possible that cell duplicated it's own genetics, it's not possible that it forms a whole different type. I believe every species was designated their own cells and patterns to create with and that is where creationism comes in. No matter how many years and studies we perform, humans will NEVER give birth to anything other than it's own kind. Same as a chicken egg won't hatch a new species of bird or mammal or fish.

Wow, some amazingly uneducated and just plain...dumb people in this thread. :glugglug

-= Reposted so others can read it again =-

:thumbsup

that's because you are thinking on such a small period of time...

in 9 months, a cell grows to a full grown human... right?

do you consider a single cell to be comparable to a human, yet, in 9 months with the right environment a full human is born...



take that same growth scale, apply it to a scale of 1 billion years. Now you have evolution of life....

No, YOU say that.

Now name some "reputable scientists" (and if you mention the names Duane Gish or Henry Morris I will throttle you) who do not believe in macro evolution.

You know that whole "burden of proof" thing? Please find me a well respected scientist that thinks the missing link HAS been found.

I just gave you THREE "missing links"

Find me the same about the "creator" you blieve in!

jDoG

Please give me the name of ONE respected scientist that believes those are indeed "missing links".

I asserted a belief. You told me I'm wrong. The burden of proof is on YOU.

:thumbsup

What I would like to understand from you people believing in creationism is this..



How do you explain that everything we know... I mean EVERYTHING.... can be brough back down to a list of very specific combination of Elements.... YET, make some very different beings, different species, or even different materials.... but all made from the exact same elements...



Why then, if everything is basically coming from the same place (same basic elements) is it so hard to believe that somewhere, along the line, something changes and makes something different....

Where is the BOTH option?

I was looking for that ;)

Stephen J. Gould (deceased)... and tens of thousands of others.

Before you make a bigger fool of yourself I suggest you do some reading: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

I don't have time for this now, will be back later.

The burden of proof lies with the person making the assertion.

Mutations, baby. Mutations. :)

The same way Alfonseca (pitcher for the Cubs) has 6 fingers on each hand. The same reason random plants and animals of all species turn out albino. You inject various environmental stimulants, and you can have an unlimited number of outcomes. Your thinking does have a solid base, but you're not looking at nearly all the possibilities.

Here are some crack baby frog equivalents. But nature does the same thing...give mother nature a couple hundred million years and it will cook up crazier things than this.

http://kindtimes.com/img/deformedfrogs.jpg

Because 1-) It has already been millions of years and there is STILL no proof that one species can produce a different type. There are no fossils, no records... nothing indicating that anything has ever or will ever produce a completely different species, like the ape theory dictates. That missing link has never been found, because it did not happen like that. It's not a small scale because I am not talking about recent science experiments exclusively, I am talking about since the beginning of time, there has never been a species that produced a different one.

2-) A single human cell and a fish cell for example, are not the same. So if you take a cell from a fish and attempt to impregnate a human female with it, it will not work on so many different levels. The DNA of human cells is different than other living species, so no matter how long those cells are given to reproduce, whether naturally or scientifically induced, those cells will NEVER create anything other than it's own kind.

What you speak of does not make either of those examples a completely different species. If Alfonseca has a child, chances are they won't have the same birth defects as him. He is in fact STILL a human, he is not a new species.

The albino theory is simply an aesthetic difference, it still does not make plants or animals a different species. It's like if 2 black people have a white looking baby, the baby is still human and not a new species of mammal.

I already showed this idiot this on the last page....He rejects it....No need of arguing with ignorance

It's gradual. You don't have a donkey flop out a york terrier. You're correct. But given environmental changes...animal bodies adapt differently. Given hundred of thousands of births of a species in new environments..the ones with the most survivable characteristics are the ones that are most likely to survive and reproduce.

Have you ever seen the 13 yr. old girl that can climb walls, etc..and has beat all the women in almost every climbing even event? She's faster, more agile, has a longer reach, etc.

She moved to Africa when she was only 4...and her only real friend and influence was this pet monkey she had. Well...she learned to climb trees, jump form one limb to another, etc. But since she was so young, and her bones were still impressionable...here hands and body grew different than yours and mine.

Here arm span is longer than her height. Not extreme..but more like that of a monkey. If you look at her fingers, her joints/knuckles are oversized and her fingers look different. Here grip is unbelievably strong. She's just a regular girl..but she has amazing capabilities.

I'm not saying she partially turned into a monkey...but I'm saying our bodies, and those ov other living things, are built to adapt. The ones that do it best survive the best. And if this girls was part of a tribe..and they lived in isolation for thousands and thousands of years doing monkey like stuff..they would probably look different, and have different capabilities than you and I.

Evolution is a very, very slow process. But sometimes it does get jump starts...such as environmental changes (ice ages, etc), isolation, radiation, chemical reactions, etc.



For 13-year-old Tori Allen, the youngest of the top U.S. boulderers, the sky's the limit, because she can climb like ... well, like a monkey
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/fea...wardly_mobile/

And for the same reasons, it would be easy to believe that some entity CREATED life using basic "building blocks" to do so... the same group of elements to make different "products".

thank u

Exactly. I agree with you. But mutations are just THAT, blips in the normal structure of things. If one other thing went wrong when either of these cases, it might be passed on down to their offspring. And it might happen only once every 15,000 years..or it might happen every third generation. There are unlimited possibilities...

We can argue forever. I've just been studying it for some number of years now, gathering any info I can in any direction. Looking for some kind of answers..and after talking to people from all over the world, I can't even pretend to think evolution isn't possible. That's silly. I still don't know how everything was created either. Who says it had to have a beginning anyways? As a whole, we humans are still very stupid...so anything is possible.

People who don't accept evolution are those who do not understand it. They ask questions such as:

where is the half-monkey/half-man?
Why can't we see things evolve?

These are questions 7 year olds would ask. Sad.

I already asked him for proof of his creator aliens, several times.

To Donovan, a theory with no evidence proves itself, while a theory with a mountain of evidence and a few holes is totally lacking credibilty.

It's a jump to believe that humans evolved from apes, but it's not a jump to believe aliens landed and made us.

But show the missing link, the scientist that have shown that proof!

jDoG

Again, she is still a human and not a new species. Even if she had children and hundreds of generations of children after her, that all shaped their bones to grow that way, they would all still be humans. Human anatomy is much deeper than just physical appearance, i am sure you agree. Just because an entire clan of people have hair all over their body and down to their ankles, does not make them a different species, nor will they ever evolve into a new species. Sure it's possible that if a woman and man start creating children that have longer arm bone structure and what not, but underneath the exterior, they are still a human species and will never produce anything other than human species, unless they can alter their DNA and genetic make up as well. All through history, there has NEVER been a case of this happening. Humans may have evolved in their appearance, but there is no proof that we are the product of another species. We may be SIMILIAR to other species, but it's not possible for a species to give life to anything but their own. There's no evidence of it and no matter how hard science tries to force it, it has not been done yet. Maybe in the future it could be possible, but as of now... it hasn't happened naturally or forcefully. So to think humans or any other creature, has evolved from the same cell or from other existing creatures, is unlikely and cannot be proved by either records or fossils, same as creation.

If humans evolved from other species, there would be "halfway" points, such as half human/half apes etc. Like you said, evolution is slow... so therefore, there would be other fossils and archeological finds of remains that would provide evidence of the missing link, but it has never been discovered and I don't believe it ever will be. So ruling out creation would be just as naive as ruling out evolution, because there is no exact proof of either. Faith is not fact, that's why it's hard to prove one's belief, compared to one's findings.

Again, I believe in evolution, as a universe and planet, but not as another species to form another. People produce red hair, blonde hair, black hair, blue eye, brown eye, light skin, dark skin kids... but they are all still of human species, like pit bulls and maltese are still the same species, even though they don't look alike. If humans start having purple and green polka dotted kids with 6 toes and 9 fingers per limb, that would still be another race/ethnicity and not a whole new species.

I understand what you're saying and agree with a lot of it. Each species does have genetic safeguards built in to prevent it from breeding with other species. But we are continualy pushing those boundries just in our short time investigating and experimenting. Yes...there are no kept records of any bizarre instance where the rules of DNA are broken, but we haven't been able to keep records for very long. We couldn't even records pictures or sound 200 years ago. Things will most likely be different going forward.

I do not understand your thinking that there haven't been any mid-way points between ancient primates and humans. Yeah, it's difficult to put all the pieces together. And the whole evolution idea, our research techniques, and dating technologies are all very new. But bit by bit, the gaps are getting filled in. The following ARE all theories..I understand that. But they all show beings that don't exist now, and continue to get closer to our form.



I'm done for now. I'm going to eat a banana and watch the World Series.

:winkwink:


First modern Homo-sapien - 30,000 years ago http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/cromagnon.html

Homo sapiens neanderthalensis - 50,000 years ago
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/chapelle.jpg

Early Homo sapiens (archaic) - 250,000-500,000 years ago
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/petralona.jpg

Homo erectus - 1.6 miliion years ago
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/15000.html

Homo habilis - 1.5 to 2 million years ago
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/stw53.jpg
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/1813.html

Australopithecus africanus - 2.5 million years old
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/sts5.jpg
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/taung.jpg

Australopithecus afarensis - 3.2 million years old
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/lucy.html

It's pointless to argue against the uneducated. You'll just get retorts of "I believe this, I believe that..."
People of Science and those who study Evolution believe in OBSERVABLE FACTS, not in leaps of faith as Creationists do.

It is obvious to me that folks in this thread who are disbelieving of Evolution haven't done enough true studying and reading on the subject, and are prone to quoting mistruths often spewed by the Creationist and Intellegent Design people.

That's where creationism is flawed....


Who created the 'species'... we did... we said.. oh look, this one has more hair, and is from this tall to this tall and weighs this much.... cuz right now, we look at them and , well, what's similar is put in the same category... what has the same DNA markup will be in the same category...



But take that 1 million years ago...... take a family that keeps having long armed children... the children keep climbing all the time... for food, they need to get higher and higher to get the food... etc... well, after a few generations, this trait will start getting out... others that moved away will NOT have those traits as they don't need it... but they might grow different traits... for instance, they might need to run away from some predators... so they'll grow bigger legs..

Give it 100,000s of years, after 5,000 generations, then someone looking at both of these might NOT think they are the same....

DNA markup between us and fish are WAY off... but fish/human connection would be in the 100s of millions of years ago... but if you look back at the dna markup of our closest cousins you will see it matches to a great extent...


anyhow, am out for the night, no point arguing as I will not beileve that humans were created exactly as they are now... and you won't see the light ;)

The one thing that all those in this thread arguing against evolution have in common is a basic ignorance of the subject.

If you are going to argue against something it's a good idea to actually KNOW something about it in the first place.

Arguing from ignorance is as pointless as pissing in the wind.

"Nothing in biology makes sense, except in the light of evolution"
Theodosius Dobzhansky (1900-1975)

Bullshit.

The Earth is an open system. We receive energy from the Sun. The second law of thermodynamics applies only to closed systems.

i really don't know...it's very confusing!http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smil...le-domanda.gif

i admit it freely - i did not read this entire thread

but...

evolution is a form of adaptation. you can raise fish or mice and watch it happen. over a period of generations, they will change to fit their environment.