dito

Addicted to Meth. Unwilling to go to rehab.

Well then lets just see what happens when you can get in touch with tfcash and leave it at that. There is obviously misunderstanding and miscommunications involved, and its not worth pursuing at this point.

Its cool, we weren't really that bothered with your use of the design for AN, but seeing it again on your other partner sites added together just didn't come off well.

And you were spamming Karma the other night and this morning so we figured you were promoting the new tour and just assumed Fletch would not say anything to you about it.

Again hopefully all the proper communications can be made to resolve this issue accordingly.

Relax Donnie.. Looks like you've kind of been left holding the bag.

As for copyright laws, they are more detailed when it comes to design type stuff. It's very iffy and it's a good thing to ask a lawyer about. Hope you guys get shit all worked out, and I'm pretty sure you can understand why things looked bad to Fletch and Cherry. Hopefully everything was miscommunication.

Interesting. You bought the design but didn't contact the designer about additional useage rights?

I'm not going to comment on the matter between you and Fletch...still reading...but I will comment on this post.

I basically trust about 3 people on this entire earth completely. Err...maybe 2...Anyways...I am one of the most trustworthy people there is and I NEVER fuck people over. Just because someone does not trust does NOT make them shady...usually it means they have been fucked around so often in the past that they have lost all trust in humans. This is what happened to me, so many times it makes me sick to think about it. People I trusted, they all betrayed me...so I became afraid and suspicious....I didn't become shady. So please, don't make generalizations, because it sort of insults people like me that have been to hell and back because they trusted the wrong people. Thanks.

well it sounds like things might be on their way to being corrected.

hope you guys get this all worked out.

First of all:
If you had read the thread carefully (maybe I should type slower?) you'd see the **I** DID NOT REUSE A FUCKING THING.

Secondly:
Please carefully read my reply to LadyMischief where I discuss the "rules" I go by when selling exclusive content to clients. I sell more than $300,000 per year in exclusive content alone. I am very familiar with how things work in the exclusive content arena. Clients do NOT have to contact me about resell rights. That's why they buy exclusive. I honestly had no idea that there was a difference when it comes to design.

To break it down for the late comers that have been asking me on ICQ to summarize this:

I bought this design from Fletch:

http://www.kinkychloe.com

The partner I have on my single girl sites had his designers create these:

http://www.teenkarma.com

http://www.teenkeera.com

http://www.kellyq.com

(etc)

Lots of similarities between the two, eh?

Fletch is angry. Fletch starts thread before we talk. The rest you'll have to read.

Here is what really sucks... I really want Fletch to continue doing future work with me. In fact, I want him to do something for a non-adult site I have.... a site that is my most important site in the world: an online journal of my thoughts to my little boy who is now 4 years old. It's a very special site.

But now there's this big huge fucked up mess that undoubtedly has harmed my relationship to Fletch.

Fuck.

this just shows when things arent put in writing..sad story to see:ak47:

Kinda like when we were gonna adopt that 18 year old eurasian girl together...and now you have sole custody you friggin' bastard!

Donny, look seriously it's nothing personal between you and I, please understand where we are coming from. I am not trying to blame you for anything, but please understand I do not know your partner, and I am basically waiting to find out.

I am sorry if I jumped the gun but I didnt even mention your name in this thread. I acknowledged the fact parties "were out of town" - you know damn well if I wanted to go all out today and go for blood I could have and could have a 9 page thread right now. I could not hold my tongue, for that I apologize but I dont think I did anything wrong.

I do not like to burn bridges, I am as real as I can beand shoot the shit straight as you even said.

I am glad you mentioned the fact you gave me access to your server, that it self shows how much trust was going on between the both of us during any of our deals.

I do not want to see anything go wrong with this. I truly wish you can listen to some of the posts in this thread and see whats been done, and simply fix it. The fix is easy.

I dont ask for anything but what I mentioned in icq. That is not much. I know and trust you can make this right.

And I assure you, if all goes well, I would be glad to do your journal site. I dont want to give up NCG either. Hopefully your partner and you can do whatever it is you feel to make it right.

If you say he copied them believing he could. Fine, I can believe that. We can handle this very easily.

My head is pounding, I have to get away from this computer. Contact whoever you need to. Get back to me and we can wrap it up in the matter of a day.

:)

If all goes well, eh? That is entirely out of my hands. I can only point TFCash to this thread and our ICQ conversation. What happens from there is entirely up to TFCash. Sucks that the decisions of TFCash will have an influence on my son's site. :(


I believe TFCash thought it was entirely okay. Like I mentioned, when a client pays for Exclusive Content they get full rights and the producer has no rights. He has an in-house designer and all I've ever dealt with in the design world is you. Neither of us had any clue that copyright laws are different with designers than with exclusive content providers.

And to be honest, I still don't know the rules are different. I'm taking the word of designers in this thread.

Out of your hands? Someone is using designs I sold you on multiple sites, it is in your hands.

Are there contracts involved with exclusive content? Do you need to sign anything for those rights? A contract perhaps?

You and I have no contract, and as stated and for you to have exclusive rights for a design you need to be given thatt exclusive rights, in contract form. You have not.

here is the pdf from the American Institute Of Graphic Arts.

http://www.fletchxxx.com/copyright/aiga_copyright.pdf

Covers design copyright laws.

It clearly states, that once I create something it is mine until I give the rights away in contract. Just because you compare this tour to exclusive content does not make the comparison accurate. It can get technical but it's all pretty common sense to people who create things regularly. Read the exclusive rights section regarding design. No contract, no exclusivity. No right to "copy" or replicate in any form.

I am not trying to pull lawyers out either, I am simply trying to illustrate that graphic design copyright is as serious as music copyright. The artist retains Federally Protected Copyright the moment I created the PSD.

I hope it doesnt have to get that technical, it doesnt have to, but the facts are the facts and that is that.

I am trying to get away and watch SOuth Park, I dont feel like posting about this anymore today.

Please tell me what I can do, besides point out your concerns?

Maybe I should go hold a gun to someone's head?

that's why i don't ever want partners

This has nothing to do with anything, but has anyone noticed that in my sig, the link to DonnysMoney.com (which is my own program.... no partners) has an affiliate code? It has had that same code in the link for more than 3 months.

Any idea who the affiliate is in that linking code?

Fletch.

Why would I do that with my own sig? Because I felt bad that he ended up having to sell me the design, even though I paid regular pricing.

Donny - the best way to clean this up is to pull out the check book and write Fletch a check for $500 for each of those sites that were ripped off. That'll clear the air between you and Fletch.

Then, when your able to talk to your "partner", you can explain that because you and he are parters, and because he instructed his designer to "copy" your friends design, you felt it necessary to pay your friend for the infringement. If your "partner" has any morals, he'll repay you back the money and thank you for taking care of the situation while he was away. If he refuses to repay you, well - you've just learned how much your "partner" really cares about you as a business associate and as a friend.

As much as you don't think you should be caught in the middle of this - the more you are. At least it appears that way from the outside.

Everybody here knows that your one of the good guys out there so nows the opportunity to step up and take care of not only a good designer but also a good friend that has been devestated by the actions of your business "partner".

Cut the boy a check and take it up with your partner. You'll feel so much better about everything and you'll quickly see what your partner really thinks of you :winkwink:

I am kind of a nobody here but I do have something to say:

I've known Donny my whole life which means I know him better than anybody who posts on this board. I won't ramble on about how he got me into this business as a successful content provider and asked for absolutely nothing in return.....or how wonderful of a father he is....or how well he treats his family, friends, and people he does buisness with. I will say that Donny would NEVER intentionally screw anybody over, especially out of greed. He is the most generous person I know in both his personal and business relations. It saddens me to even see the word "greed" associated with Donovan Phillips. I also know TFCash. I shoot content for him and I have never known him to be anything but honest. I do not know Fletch but he also sounds like a good and honest person. In this business it's easy to assume the worst. But, this is most likely a huge misunderstanding that I'm sure will be worked out.

Good luck to all three of you

One small fucking problem with that scenario... I am partners on THREE of the sites, not on ALL of the sites.

Hell YEAAAA - what she said :thumbsup

Luv ya' baby :Graucho

Thank you. :)

And you're right, Fletch is a good and honest person.

I agree quiet.


As for Donovan - when your client/partner/friend decided he wanted that girl and didn't want Fletch as part of the deal - you, as a businessman should have given your client/partner/friend an explanation of what your 'WORD' means in business. If you can't keep your word, then you compensate on with something else, in this case, money - not the cost of the design, the cost of breaking the deal. Say the projected percentage of a year. Now someone who deals in business in this manner, would be someone to respect. Paying him the cost of the design (then blatantly copying and recreating) just doesn't cut it. It's 1) dishonest 2) will haunt you and your partners.

Next time, how about reading the rest of the thread before posting.

If you'll notice, the decision was Fletch's. And he was compensated by not only being paid for the design, but also being paid AND given the same deal for my own, personal "bread and butter" naked college girls site.

I did read it and even though he was understanding and it was his idea to get paid for the design - you should have compensated for the broken deal and broken promises since it wasn't going the way it should - even if you have other sites to go % with him.

He was compensated.

so if i buy a design of someone, then my PARTNER goes off and copies the shit out of it, all i have to do is 'point out the designer's concerns'?

lol

500 bucks for using the same pay site template over and over? haha

Actually, 500 dollars was for the template - What compensation did he get for being cut out of a deal? What compensation is he getting for them using the same template over and over again?

God, quiet, I thought you were smarter than most of the idiots on this board.

Did you skip all the parts where we discussed how I had NO IDEA that his designs were copied over and over?

And did you also miss the parts where I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO CONTACT ANYONE FOR AN EXPLANATION?

By the way:
When I sell someone an exclusive set of content, for $150 (I do a lot of volume, so that is my price, by the way) the buyer can use it OVER AND OVER AND FUCKING OVER!!! It becomes the property of the buyer. That's what exclusive means.

Now, you folks are telling me that the situation is different for designers. I read the link that Fletch posted. This situation could easily go either direction. What he did could just as easily be defined as being identical to the descriptions in the "work for hire" paragraphs.

BUT ONCE MORE... read the entire thread. Especially my "here's what happened" post.

my point ;)

BTW, Donovan the comments about the using of the template over and over again with modifications - is not made to you but being put out for discussion. We understand you weren't aware of this and that you were also unable to contact your partner.

In the original deal, he would get a percentage only. No up front money. Then I said "I can keep things the way we've discussed, or I can pay you for the design" (short version... read back for full version). He decided to have me pay him. $500 was the agreed upon number.


By the way, I've made a whopping $200 profit-after-expenses on the alternate tour he did for naked college girls (read the ICQ log Fletch linked to earlier for more details). That is in the last three months. At that rate, it would take 7 months for the NCG alternate tour to generate $500.

i read the entire thread. duuuuuh.

without a contract? you do exclusive deals without a contract? yes or no? did you have a contract with fletch - yes or no?

great, you had no idea. so what? he's YOUR partner, what are you going to do about it?

i remember fletch being VERY excited about this percentage deal, talking to him off the board. why is it always the good guys that get fucked? ah well, such is life.

Can someone please explain to me, in terms other than emotional idiocy, why a TGP template can be paid for once and used over and over again.... and why a site template cannot?

The answer is "yes I do them without a fucking contract for ALL but ONE of my clients... and that ONE client insisted on a contract only within the last few months because Larry Walters told him that he should have one".

So, does that answer your question?

Can you please tell me how the FUCK he was FUCKED? Particularly by ME?

Let's see... his normal pricing for what he did for me is:

$500


He was paid:

$500.


I-fucking-magine that!

definitely. donny shoots exclusive content with no contracts whatsoever.

haha, gotcha.

and your partner uses the same design for a FLEET of other solo girl sites. imagine that.