Krav Maga is really similar to San Soo in a lot of respects, the main problem I have with both arts is that most techniques require a level of accuracy and control that isn't realistic (at least for me) when the adrenalin is pumping, but I do respect the fighting theory brought forth by both of those arts, and mentally they prepare you the best.

As for Wing Chun, I love it and I hate it. The whole sticky hands thing is lost to me, but I love the way they chain the punches and shoot them from the elbow. I trained for awhile with a Wing Chun guy so I could pick up those punches. I have used them so many times training, it always surprises the NHB guys because they aren't used to getting hit that hard by someone who is on their back.

thanks for the laugh!! spinning axe kick...lmao!!

I do muay thai and wing chun, give s me self-confidence as a woman, knowing that I can hold my own when I need to...most men don't expect a woman is going to have her wits about her and be able to defend herself.

we actually pracitce kung fu when we're drunk so that we're accustomed to it!! lol:1orglaugh

There truely is no one perfect martial art, i have learned from experience to mix as many toghter as possible for any situation. One thing i learned the the Okinawian style of karate is to always look out for multiple attackers and to expect that. The Best Martial Art is truely a mix of all the martial arts, standup, ground, weapons, etc... the more you know the better you are equipt to not getting your ass kicked. Personally knowing what i know makes me want to fight less and just walk away from it. But sometimes you just have to kick someone in the ribs to get them to understand :thumbsup

It all depends on how good you are. If fighters are equally good in each sport I think Vale Tudo, Judo, Thai Boxing, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and wrestling would be the best. However in a bar fight, usually the person that strikes first wins...

Israeli "Krav Maga" and "Hisardut",

Krav Maga is more for the army and if you want to inflict very heavy damage in a very short time.

Hisardut is a mix of many top martial arts and is perfect for street fighting.

Although i don't know if there are any schools for that outside of Israel

DAMN people, you don't have to guess! Just grab some NHB tapes, these questions have been answered time and again. Kung Fu doesn't work. Aikido barely works. Ninjitsu is a fairy tale, so is pressure point fighting, totally worthless in real life unless you scare someone away with your flashy poses. TKD works against unskilled guys only, and you better hope he's not bigger than you.

Judo is ok
boxing is ok
kickboxing is quite good
MT is great
wrestling is great
BJJ rules all

This isn't theory, this shit has been proven.

http://www.gracieacademy.com - get Gracies in Action, you'll be doing yourself a favor.

It depends on the fighter. Personally I do just fine for myself with the Judo, Hapkido, Tang Soo Do and Boxing that I've learned. I'm very fast, strong but not very big(6' 175lbs) so I try to avoid ground fights that last very long. Its all about what works for you. I'm exceedingly good at punching with power and accuracy as well as using rushing movements of others against them. I'm also really good at chokes so I try to use those strengths immediately in any fights I've been in.


You can't base your opinion of martial arts on a few isolated incidents or UFC bouts because that was what was best for the given situation.

Learn a little bit of everything but most importantly you should piece together your own mechanisms that work best for you.

Actually most martial arts touneys ban grappling knocking out many great forms of fighting such as mantis or wing chun and none allow pressure point fighting against opponents under ANY circumstances. Even if they were allowed to fighters who are proficient in fighting using those styles have dedicated decades to the art and so are under the philosphy of "with great power comes great responsibility" and would not even consider using them in a exhibition of that sort. So it has nothing to do with fear. Many forms of Kung Fu are centered around Tong and Triad fighting, long ago these were freedom fighters and not the gangs they are today. The government was in turmoil and was overthrown by a group who forced the dismantling of the shoulin temples, the monks fled and taught triads/tongs how to fight in secret to overthrow the government and reinstate the ming. The heritage of the arts is to be secretive this is in direct opposition of exhibitionary fighting. We are not taught how to points spar, exhibition and learning how to strike for points is highly looked down upon by most schools holding to their chinese lineage.

ALL NHB events allow pressure point fighting, Kung Fu, whatever, as long as it's bare handed. KF guys participated in the early UFC's, as did JKD guys. They got slapped around like bitches every single time they stepped in the ring. No PPF fighter has ever had the cojones to step into the ring and they probably never will, because somewhere in the back of your mystical eastern philosophy brain centers, you know it's complete bullshit.

Anyways... as i said, heres a little clip of a multiple person attack in aikido: http://www.aikido-bund.de/aikido/film/film1.avi
the video kind of sucks in quality and overall. but the attack comes in like the 30 last second of it.

HAHAHAHAHA yeah I know some good choreographers too. You know this is just forms being practiced in a school somewhere right? It has nothing to do with real fighting. Kung Fu looks pretty and graceful too, but when the other guy isn't cooperating it's a whole different story.


http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php...wnload&ci d=1

here's some BJJ guys against KF and Karate guys, and a clip of a pressure point guy trying to knock out someone besides his own students. It doesn't work so well.

For BJJ guys kicking the crap out of Aikido guys you need the Gracies in Action tapes because I'm too lazy to search for online clips.

You mean the same tapes of the guys that have all their information highly inflated like their weight and heights? The ones that most real martial artists NEVER enter nor would ever enter even with the big pay outs? The ones with story lines and antics becoming more and more like wrestling? Most martial artists watch this stuff just because we enjoy conflict but UFC and even the once venerable K1 have fallen to the allurement of money. The Gracies are a respected family in most circles of fighting but even the old man has been beaten before as has the poster boy Hoyce, you win some and you lose some. I will say that I personally judge an art on how well common people can do it, how long you have to train to be proficient and its general efficiency against multiple forms of skilled and "unskilled" fighters.
I trained in TKD and Karate first, they were crap, it takes forever be fighting efficient and you have to weed out all the bad things you will learn like kicks over the head, mentally going over and picking strikes, POINTS SPARRING. I train in boxing now, very unatural and not effective against anyone who is going to kick or pick something up and hit you with it, just good for mancho toe to toe guys or in the ring where you can use endurance and the ropes. The day I walked out of my first training day in my kung fu school i had a back fist that would break a nose, I had been shown how to punch with way more power, control and efficiency by rolling my fist over and a ridge hand that would stop most people from breathing for a second. It took my natural ability and cleaned it up and made it effective, this is as much the teacher as the art itself. If you devote the time the originators put into developing of the art you will be a great fighter, but people have work and a lack of ethic and discipline now so i go with arts that allow you to learn how to defend youself as second nature and can be practiced while still having a life. These have worked well for people I know and are EXCELLENT because I have and will devote major chunks of my life to it giving me an advantage over other fighters.

:1orglaugh

Are you kidding me? I love the way they all do the over hand punch and just blindly run at the defender.

And how they all wait their turn during the multiple attacker part.

If I trained hard for 10-15 years, I wouldn't want to end up like that.

one last time and then I'm putting you in the loony file:

Kung Fu guys have fought in the UFC. They got whipped, easy and fast, as if they had no training at all. Which part of that is so difficult to understand? HERE is a clip of a KF guy getting pOWNED by a BJJ guy. You can find these on any martial arts site.

here's another clip of a Wing Tsun guy getting owned, this time in an early UFC. All the fights with these guys against submission fighters go the same way. Takedown, sidemount, lights out for KF guy. Every single time. This is a particularly brutal beatdown.

http://www.ufc.tv/learnUFC/rulesUfc.asp

gracies work great in that environment

All martial arts have strong and weak points. The future of martial arts is MMA (mixed martial arts)

MMA is a combination of all martial arts combined. MMA takes the best of each martial art and combines them into one.

Using MMA you can eliminate the holes and weak points that each martial has.

-Tony

I agree, with all the rules in NHB tournies now, it has become a sporting event like boxing. And with weight divisions, there is even less real fighting elements to it.

I always refer to the early UFC's where there wasn't many rules at all, and traditional MA guys got chewed up.

I respect traditional MA, and I appreciate the culture and history, but when my ass is on the line, I'll stick with what works.

MMA is just BJJ with a standup technique added imho. Even the guys that call themselves wrestlers are using BJJ, they use their wrestling technique for takedown and position then start using BJJ subs to try to end it.

As far as the rules go, the less rules there are the better the Gracies like it. Especially the time limits, they HATE time limits. There is very little difference between an NHB match and a streetfight except you can't pick up a weapon. In both cases it's bare-handed mano-a-mano. In the early UFC's they even allowed groin shots, it never made that much of a difference. And eye-gouging (which is what everyone always points to when they try to say there's a difference between the ring and the street) is way harder than it looks. People tend to move their head when you're scrabbling your fingers around their eyes, and a BJJ guy will armbar you in a second if you try it.

what were the rules ?
eyes, throat, groin, knees are all prime targets to be practiced aiming for and defending in a streetfight

well I think there HAD to be weight divisions sooner or later, don't you? When the bigger guy knows what the smaller guy knows, he's going to win the vast majority of the time, and we're at that point now.

throat, groin and knee attacks were legal in the early UFC, eye-gouging wasn't although a couple people tried it anyway. It's not as effective as you would think.

Attacking the knees and throat is still legal, as far as I know...

that was lame from start to finish. I have a black belt in Go Ju Ryu and can't stand people who do lame ass, sucky demonstrations with poorly staged, 1/2 speed attacks and people making motions as if they were using their arms as golf clubs... and then pretend that it has any relation to an actual confrontation.. i would stab any one of those fuckers in the face and then go eat lunch.

:2 cents:

Striking the throat is illegal. Yes you can choke and press the throat just not strike.

Knees are legal with the exception of knees to the head when the opponent is laying on the ground.

-Tony

throat is #11 and it's worked for me

Two rules: no biting or eye-gouging

And there was 10 minute rounds, but back in that day the fights lasted like a maximum of 3 minutes unless it was a snoozer like a Shamrock fight.

Wing chun

I don't need to say anymore

i think its very fair to say that any fighting art is "usefull" if you have the benefit of sparring or having contact with other people in a fighting situation. just having the experience of interaction gives you a tremendous advantage over those who don't.


other than that... anyone that thinks a particular style is better than another is naive or inexperienced. more important that the style being teached... is WHO is teaching it. people can suck or kick ass in any style depending on who taught them and depending on their own character.

:2 cents:

the bjj guy in my brothers wing chun class is there because he fought a guy he couldn't get on the ground

if that's true, then why did BJJ fighters own every other style 100% of the time until the other styles started incorporating BJJ?

This just got posted: http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php...p=getit&lid=15



In my opinion, the main things that count in typical bar/street fights are size, strength and insanity. Since you probably won't be fighting against a world champion in kickboxing or whatever, technique won't matter nearly as much as those things.

As I said, it was only a demonstration and the video clip does suck. It's not just an art you train and that can't be used. If you know some more about it you would feel different about it. Apparently I can't explain it to you and not show it to you so whatever..

Jiu Jitsu, Kick boxing, Kung Fu
are the most useful martial arts.
but wrestling? def. not... :1orglaugh

yeah Randy Coutoure and Matt Hughes are just bitches :1orglaugh

:thumbsup

Martial arts styles are not as important as the stylist. NHB is not really NHB. Your two bro's can't jump in the ring and help you. The guy you are wrestling can't knife you while you are fighting. Self defense, and sport fighting are two different things.

http://www.rmcat.com

Adrenal dump training. When you train in a dojo, those guys are usually your buds. Fighting someone that wants to kill you takes away a lot of your fine motor skills. Sport/Self Defense - two different things.

I was answering the question in the thread. if you are 100% correct in your perfect black and white world... then there would only be one style or weaponless fighting systems... not hundreds.

BJJ was marketed well and did well by a select group of related psychopaths who shared the same genes named Gracie. what does BJJ have to do with the fact that these guys can also take an incredible beating without getting knocked out? simple... nothing.

I train with those psychopaths every day, and they're the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet. Besides, if BJJ was all about the Gracies being homicidal and 'taking a beating' well, why are all the other fighters using BJJ now and beating Gracie family members?

if you get jumped by multiple guys you're fucked regardless of what you know, assuming they're really out to kick your ass and aren't just blowing smoke. There's a reason why every fighter who steps in the ring uses BJJ when they hit the ground (with the exception of a couple Sambo fighters) - it works better than anything else. If Kung Fu worked better than everything else, then everybody would be using it, but they don't. They use BJJ.

The guys who actually fight for a living use BJJ damn near exclusively. Doesn't that ring any bells for you at all?

Over the past 26 years I have studied and trained in Jeet kune Do, Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Wing Chun, Judo, Aikido, Ninjitsu, and Boxing. Like anything it is not what you do but the way that you do it. It is about the stylist and how they interpret the art. Some people have incredible focus and some do not.

Like Bruce said never restrict yourself to a style, be styleless. Be like water.

And above all practice the art of fighting without fighting.
:thumbsup