I think the debt they are fighting with Intercept over is only $3.8 mil according to their 8-Ks
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...9-1_050704.htm
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...481/c32246.txt

Been with Ibill for several years. Never had the wool pulled over my eyes. If they are doing it now, then it will be the first time. I didn't get paid for 900 service when Worldcom went under. If that is what you are talking about, then they weren't paid the money either.

iBill has been solid for me also and I 'm not kissing their ass, if I wasnt happy I would change. They are keeping us posted of whats happening , creating a panic doesnt help anyone. They have been solid for us in past and I have no doubt they will continue to be solid in the future.

No. It isn't good.

I don't mind paying the fees. I see that as the cost of doing business...

Customer service is essential when running a successful business. It's just damned common sense to me.

I hope they don't go down. It will hurt many.

But, damn, I wish they would stop this bullshit and clean up their act.

have you totally not read anyones post ?? start on page one and read what webmasters are saying and how much money is adding up - glad your doing well and they are paying you.

Did they ask you to post that??

I went back from page one only one guy talks about being owed 4k . What are you talking about? To start yelling about not getting paid and the first hasnt come yet makes no sense . They are not a bank or a insurance company, they are a payment processor ,they can only pay us when they get paid its really that simple. Just like when I was in sales, I made the sale but until the company I worked for got the money, I didnt get paid.

So this event is the first negative feeling you have had toward Ibill? They didn't ask me to post, I am telling the truth. If they don't pay me, it will hurt. But they have always paid me in the past, except for worldcom debacle. When did you not get paid?

I am sorry scardog, I thought I had made myself clear in past posts that I do not myself deal with any billing company - so I have nothing to gain nor loose - what I am troubled about is the history of webmasters I have been dealing with that have been brushed off or lack of customer service by them.

I have been in this industry for coming up to 9 years with marketing and sales to webmasters both gay and straight. I have been to most trade shows - yet when IBill comes out with this, my ICQ lights up like a christmas tree with friends of mine who are webmasters that IBill owes money too and refuses to get back to them... and now this.

PSW went the same way - and many heard the same carefully worded speeches as IBill is doing now.

I am only trying to get answers for the many webmasters who ask - and dont get a straight answer.

I am thrilled and pleased that IBill looks after clients such as yourself, and I hope that more success stories are told. yet I do know that it is likely that they also have "friends" that are asked to stand up for them when the situation looks bad.

They haven't paid all EU Clients for August. And they received the money for August from their EU Processor.

So we made the sales, they got paid but they didn't forwarded the money but said they are in trouble you must understand that we have received the money but can't pay you.

How about that?

Scoreman, I re-read your post and my friend - you are hitting the nail on the head here with post: Ibill will no longer be able to cut any affiliate checks because they will not have access to the personal merchant accounts

I am wondering if anyone else realises this very important point?

Yes but that will be for the monies going forward. The monies owed right now were billed with iBill as an IPSP and as such they are the merchant account holder. I am very interested to hear the specifics on how the new setup will take place. My guess is that account holders can designate that iBill make the payout to the affiliates as always but that would affect the site owner's ability to get daily settlement, or have settlement paid directly into their accounts. In such a case, IBill will likely get the settlement and make payout. The Gateway billers like DHD Media and Netbilling allow this I believe. Mitch will come on here and clear it up if Im mistaken.

Mark from iBill himself said that it is not looking good as far as getting paid on time
Already EU clients have not been, I've heard affiliates have not been paid (I'm not sure if that's true or not).

It's true no affiliates have been paid for the Sept 22 payouts.

At the end of the day this is all about who you trust with your money. After years of miss management, deceit, withholding of funds and huge refund percentages. Last year i changed all our affiliate programs over to CCbill and Epoch. Its the best move i ever made for our affiliates and for our profits.

I sincerely hope that all the webmasters owed large amounts from Ibill get paid out on time. But you guys owe it to yourself and your affiliates to get a backup, don't wait until even more shit hits the fan. The $750 you pay out for a backup will be the best money you spend in this business.


.

be great to here what he has to say as well, but I am wondering that if they can actually cut the checks, then why wouldn't we go over to Mitch and get it much cheaper?

I've been with Ibill for the last 3 years and over the last year payments from them have started to get later and later and when I've emailed payables to ask why, I dont even get an answer.
That is not good business.

They have about 16k of mine. I've moved all my business over to ccbill and wont be going back. Although an account such as mine isnt much to worry about losing when compared to some of the bigger players. I'm sure there are loads of others just like myself who just think Fuck em and leave.

Also since I've gone over to CCbill, my turn overs gone up by about $100 per day. I'm not sure if it's because they accept more cc cards or because people trust them more or it may just be a short term jump.

They also charge less fees and keep less money back.

i still dont understand how they can just "not have" all that money from holdbacks and the 1-15 of september.

by ibill's own admission, FD is only holding that one week of processing revenue. therefore, ibill should have on hand, 6 months of holdback, as well as the monies collected the 1-15 of september.

where is that money??

me too.

that is a bit unfair to IBill - FD has a hold on the account from my understanding, its not like IBill has it sitting in their bank accounts or buying groceries for their employees and not paying webmasters. VISA and the banks are squeezing IBill's balls and in turn, we see that and are squinching our eyes saying, "thats gotta hurt!!" - IBill in reply like any politician or statesman who has to protect their interests - are looking at us with tearied eyes, and with the best of voice saying, "naw - doesnt hurt a bit"

IBill is having their balls squeezed and kick, and webmasters are vicariously feeling the effects, but unlike IBill, can scream, "fuck that hurts!!!"

Would be nice to get your act together for the people that do processing with you...............................

Don't forget that there is no payouts for August 16-31 too

hoping hes going to show up - be nice to hear his opinion on the matter

You may not be much to ibill to loose but imagine you x 1000 or 5000 then it all adds up.

In talking to a lot of fellow webmasters that have also been with ibill, when they started looking around they all found better deals. E.G lower costs mostly. So most will probally NOT be coming back.

He doesn't look to be online right now. He is probably out of the office. I will show him the thread when he is online.

I have been in this industry for coming up to 9 years with marketing and sales to webmasters both gay and straight. I have been to most trade shows - yet when IBill comes out with this, my ICQ lights up like a christmas tree with friends of mine who are webmasters that IBill owes money too and refuses to get back to them... and now this.

You are a fucking liar. You have "friends". Name them. Everyone hides behind their "friend" when they want to make a point.

I will meet you at the next show and tell you to your face you are a fucking liar.

Who are you talking too? lol

E-Commerce
Porn's New King
Seth Lubove, 03.22.04, 7:04 PM ET

LOS ANGELES - The son of notorious white-collar scamster John Peter Galanis has quietly resurfaced as the buyer of the nation's largest processor of payments for Internet porn.

Credit-card processor Intercept's (nasdaq: ICPT - news - people ) 2002 acquisition of Internet Billing, or iBill, may go down in history as one of the most boneheaded acquisitions ever by a public company. Now, it's finding it just as embarrassing to get rid of iBill.

IBill is the largest processor of credit-card payments for the purchase of dirty digital pictures (see "Visa's Porn Crackdown"). It is literally the engine of paid Internet porn. The company had successfully operated anonymously behind the scenes until 2002, when Intercept paid $104 million to acquire iBill from its founders. After first telling investors that porn made up just a minor amount of iBill's business, Intercept (which had $259 million in revenue for 2003) finally confessed that porn was actually responsible for 85% of iBill's annual credit-card transactions, which once amounted to as much as $720 million.

Having agreed last month to a settlement of $5.3 million for the various class-action lawsuits that resulted from the company's understatement of iBill's dependence on porn, Intercept also announced a deal to relieve itself of the business and sell the division that includes iBill for a lowball $37 million to a group that included management and outside investors (after dropping plans from October to take all of Intercept private). Then, on March 15, the company reversed course yet again and said it would sell iBill separately to yet another buyer, whom the company never disclosed.

"None of those names have been made public," said an Intercept spokeswoman. "I can't respond."

For good reason. It turns out the identity of what Intercept only characterizes as "another entity" has become an open secret among folks close to the deal, and not for reasons that will enhance Intercept's shaky reputation. In addition to iBill's former chief executive, Garrett Bender, the other person leading the buyers is none other than Jason Galanis, son of John Peter Galanis, the notorious white-collar crook who bilked investors of $400 million before he was thrown in prison, where he still resides. As Forbes reported in 2000 (see "The Long Reach Of John Peter Galanis"), the disgraced father has had heavy if not controlling influence on Jason's businesses, which have been involved in the spectacular blowup of a Colorado bank and millions in losses for commodity giant Cargill.

Unlike his father, Jason Galanis has never been convicted of a crime. He has, however, had at least one scrape with the law. While serving as chief executive in 2001 of something called EGX Funds Transfer (formerly known as Incubator Capital), a once-publicly traded financial processing outfit, Galanis and his brother and sometimes-business partner Derek were arrested as part of a big Drug Enforcement Agency bust of a San Diego ecstasy manufacturing and distribution ring. Although all the charges were dropped against Jason, Derek was convicted and sentenced to 11 years in jail.

Derek's attorney, Janice Deaton of San Diego, says she will soon file an appeal of Derek's conviction, citing "prosecutorial misconduct" and asking for a "huge reduction in sentence based on his actual role." She describes Derek as a "very minimal player," and adds, "he didn't participate in this for any financial gain, and didn't contribute any money." Deaton says both of the Galanis brothers knew one of the principals of the drug ring, Dennis Alba, from prior business dealings, which is how they got caught up in the bust.

But Deaton contends just the brothers' name alone was enough to arouse suspicion. "Their dad is what got Derek in trouble," she says. "There were other people more involved than Derek who got their cases dismissed. It's the Galanis name. It's really a shame." Although Deaton didn't represent Jason in the matter, she said she's spoken with him frequently, and says she's "impressed with him as a businessperson."

In an e-mail exchange, Jason Galanis acknowledges the heavy burden of his father's name in the DEA bust. "Unfortunately, I was again maligned by indirect inferences about my relatives, which are, admittedly colorful people. One cannot choose their relatives," he says. "This has haunted me for my entire career. My father left our family when I was 16, when he was indicted and arrested. He has been incarcerated almost my entire adult life...Since my brother's incident, I have wanted nothing further to do with my father or his poor life choices."

At the same time, Galanis also contends he is only acting as an intermediary for a "handsome fee" in the iBill deal, not as a principal, on behalf of a "Dr. Molina." Molina is apparently Luis Enrique Fernando Molina, a Galanis business associate and Mexican hotel developer whose family controlled Pepsi-Gemex, the largest independent Pepsi bottler outside the United States. But others familiar with the deal say Galanis is more deeply involved than he lets on.

"My role has been a central on in making the transaction come together," says Galanis. "It is possible that peripheral parties could form the wrong impression."

Galanis similarly described himself as a "part of the investment banking team" that took Robert Guccione's Penthouse magazine public in 2002, then helped Molina in a deal in November to put another $107 million into Penthouse in a real estate/equity swap. But according to Securities and Exchange Commission filings, Galanis was identified as recently as last fall as the only person associated with Penthouse Financial, a separate company from Guccione's teetering empire that controls Penthouse's racy website. Galanis now says it was more of a licensing deal, and that the contract has since been terminated.

Galanis' Penthouse experience provides a nice bit of synergy with iBill, perhaps, but iBill's role in the Internet economy--at least the part where people pay for stuff--can't be understated. The company acts as the critical aggregator and gatekeeper between thousands of websites, porn or otherwise, and the bank that ultimately processes the bulk of iBill's credit-card transactions and doesn't want the aggravation of dealing with all those pipsqueak businesses. The bank in this case happens to be First Financial Bank, a subsidiary of $8.5 billion (2003 sales) blue chip financial processor First Data (nyse: FDC - news - people ).

The fact that First Data would have to sign off on any deal that hands over a treasure trove of sensitive credit-card data to Galanis, or whomever he purports to represent, probably doesn't sit well with the conservative Greenwood Village, Colo., company, which also owns Western Union, TeleCheck and now Concord EFS. First Data is already said to also be looking to exit from the porn payments business. The company has been shopping around its more than $1 billion porn and high-risk merchant portfolio, made up mostly of iBill and a handful of other big porn payment intermediaries like it. Considering the business only contributes $10 million to First Data's $1.4 billion in profits, the risk to First Data's hard-earned reputation seems hardly worth the hassle.

Like intercept, First Data is also keeping quiet about the possible deal. "First Data does not selectively comment on its business plans," said a First Data spokesperson in a statement. "It is not our practice to make public the details of our specific contractual arrangements or our business relationships with our clients."

But if you were clearing credit cards for the likes of hotlegsandfeet.com., enema-sex.com and my hotwife.com, you'd probably keep quiet about it too.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The fact that First Data would have to sign off on any deal that hands over a treasure trove of sensitive credit-card data to Galanis, or whomever he purports to represent, probably doesn't sit well with the conservative Greenwood Village, Colo., company, which also owns Western Union, TeleCheck and now Concord EFS. First Data is already said to also be looking to exit from the porn payments business. The company has been shopping around its more than $1 billion porn and high-risk merchant portfolio, made up mostly of iBill and a handful of other big porn payment intermediaries like it. Considering the business only contributes $10 million to First Data's $1.4 billion in profits, the risk to First Data's hard-earned reputation seems hardly worth the hassle.

great ...now we got 1 post wonders throwing more chum into the water.

Like its not transparent that MetroInc is a fake nic for someone on this board who doesnt want to show his real face when he clouds the issue.

thats right, your the man - I dont deal with any billing company, so what point do I have to post in this thread since it doesnt benefit me in any way?

Webmasters I know buy content, and from other boards, including YNOT that I moderate on. I can understand if your new in the industry to fathom the idea that webmasters talk off the boards on ICQ to others in the industry.

I dont have to hide behind anyone.. nor do I have too. But thanks for keep things honest around here.. just aimed at the wrong person.

So I guess you never made your first post on here? Not everyone has the time like you do to post 900 times!

Get a life!

Oh stop it is so apparent you have a agenda. Only glass is more transparent lol.

iBill News
Last Updated: Thursday 30 September 2004 at 4:21 PM U.S. Eastern Time

Payout Summary

September 30, 2004

The dispute with First Data is currently affecting our ability to pay our clients. We are working to get this issue resolved so that we can resume our regularly scheduled payouts. We will post a daily message on CMI to keep clients up to date on the status of this issue.

We know how serious this matter is to you. Please be assured that everyone here at iBill is working diligently to correct these matters so that we can all return to business as usual.

The next update will be posted tomorrow, Friday October 1, 2004 at 4:00 p.m.

I have an agenda because I post a news story relating to this thread? are you for real?

Another webmaster with too much time on his hands with almost 4000 posts ... yet someone that posts factual information on here has an agenda! lol I think you have an agenda... one that involves being blissfully ignorant ...stick to the facts u ass

What do you own shares in iBill or somethin?

:BangBang: tony404:321GFY

From reading your post, and going through several processors myself over the years, I have some questions, this post is long, bear with me:

With regard to Visa transactions, are you now changing into just a gateway (similar to netbilling) where your clients have to apply for their own merchant accounts? If not and you have your own account set up, apparently through merrick, are you going to be able to process ALL of your client?s transactions through the new account or, because this is a new banking relationship, only a limited number of transactions?

Is your fee structure going to be the same or different?

How long is your bank going to take to approve your clients and their sites and how long is Visa? I have had accounts with epoch that have taken nearly a month for approval and that was not under the pressure that ibill is under right now. The pressure of coordinating the registration of ALL your clients is tremendous, and to expect it to be done timely and efficiently by a company that has had several ownership/management changes in the past year is far-reaching. I do not fool myself into disregarding your prior actions and poor customer service over the past 3 years and thinking that this week, ibill changes into a stellar, well-run company.

To summarize the above paragraph, how long do you realistically expect me not to take what amounts to over 60% of my sales, even as backup?

For all of the Visa transactions that you are holding, which imo will not be less than a month or 6 weeks before the registration approval and you can process them, are you going to rebill them all at once, doubling up the charges on my customers statements, which may cause them, at a minimum, to look twice and cancel or perhaps chargeback the membership?

What is the payment delay going to be? I have hosting, content and payroll, in a to take care of. If first data is holding your funds, what about the transactions processed in the past week, are those all stand-in transactions that you are going to eventually move over to your new bank or did you process them and we will get paid on them separate from the first data funds holding?

If I move all of my new sales back over to Epoch and only leave my rebills with you, are you going to hold all of my funds?

Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions

what is the next Ibill banner at the top of this page going to say?...

"sorry again. really sorry. well, this time we are really, really, really sorry and this time we mean it. i mean yeah, we said we we're sorry before, but this is different - but we really, really, really want you back... We are also sorry for scaring the shit out of you and holding your money and fucking with your money... but we want you back again. please trust us with your money"

their next fucking banner is going to be a 200K file and I wont be able to open this site on dial up when i am traveling anymore

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :thumbsup

Hi Whatif,

Regarding your questions:

Existing iBill clients will not have to "apply" for a merchant account. They will be migrated over to the new platform after agreeing to the new t and c's.

We are not going to be a gateway. In this model, iBill will sponsor and accept the risk on behalf of our clients. Not only will clients have the ability to take advantage of the iBill products and services that they know today ? 24X7 customer service, risk management, RevShare affiliate program, and password management ? but, they will now be funded directly by the bank and will have the option to be funded daily.

We forecast that transition to the new platform for all clients will be completed by Oct 8th.

Rebills will be processed accordingly depending on the date they were originally scheduled for.

The payout delay is being worked on and is our #1 priority.

"If I move all of my new sales back over to Epoch and only leave my rebills with you, are you going to hold all of my funds?"
No, we will not.

Thanks,

Adam

Hhhmmm...isn't this what they want. Big companies decide they no longer want to be associated with adult entertainment so they tell companies like iBill we're no longer going to do business with you because what your doing is against our morals (now that we've made millions off of you). So in an apparent move to isolate the adult industry once again, their efforts seem to be paying off. Now we've got all these adult webmasters wanting to punish iBill for being punished for doing business with us in the first place. I agree, iBill could have been a little more proactive, and their communication of what's going on and how it affects us all could definitely be much better. Sure I'm pretty nervous, I need my checks to survive but this really isn't iBill's doings.
I'm going to hang in there and hope for the best, I really have no other choice at the monent since I can't afford to set up another payment option yet but I'm also hanging in there because I don't want to see these big companies with so called morales bringing another important piece of our business down. It's ok to be frustrated, just don't give in. If you've supported iBill up until now, keep supporting them and give them a chance to overcome this mess.
Nope, I'm not kissing ass I'm just trying to see this whole mess at face value. iBill has much more to loose than I do and they certainly wouldn't have brought this on themselves. So far, I've honestly been pleased with them so I'm not about to turn my back on them now and start bad mouthing their efforts. HELL YEA I want my money, but this is not just about me getting paid, it's about another adult business getting fucked and you guys should be outraged at First Data and the folks that are really trying to fuck you! Just my :2 cents:

Very good points

So what you are saying is that the migration is relatively superficial and none of the clients will be left behind or lose processing?

Agreed that payouts are the priority. As soon as even just the reserves go out this will all be much more palateable.

:)

I wouldn't say superficial, but I would say simple for existing clients. And nobody will lose the ability to process or be left behind.

Adam

If you read the release from yesterday it specifically states that all of their clients will get paid. I do not doubt them for a second.

Your kidding, right? iBill has had 10 months to make a move to another bank. It seemed that the other 3rd party billing companies that had to move from First Data didn't have any problems. First Data gave them plenty of notice, so there is no reason to be upset with them. It sounds like iBill thought they had all the time in the world, so they just dragged their feet until the last minute. That last minute has come and gone. iBill has not only put their business in jeopardy, but a lot of others as well.

I guess I just don't understand how you can say that this is not iBill's doing when they have brought this on themselves.

Hi,

Just for your information, today I regularly received IBILL EU payout.


I think (hope) that Ibill US payouts will be relased soon.


Mark

Scoreman and The Legacy,

Thanks for mentioning us in your posts. We do not cut affiliate checks for one simple reason; we do not touch your $$$ at all. Since funds are deposited daily into your bank account directly from your merchant account provider, Netbilling does not have access to your funds. However, many of our merchant who run affiliate programs cust the checks themselves through quickbooks automatically and by other means. We also have merchants who use affiliatracking.net and as one of their services, they will cut the checks for you. at a great price.

We can certainly setup merchant accounts and offer ACH check processing for only 3.25% and 40¢ per transaction.

What are you paying now?

Questions?

Thank you, Mitch Farber

Was this todays reserve payout or the regular payout from the 21st?

Neither do I. I've been with Ibill through thick and thin since 1999 and they have never not paid what is due. Regardless this is still stressful, and I hope it is resolved soon.





:glugglug

You're telling people to do a chargeback on fees for your own site, before the processor has even closed down? :eek7

Very foolish... that could come back to bite you in the future, your URL will be flagged at Visa as having excessive chargebacks, which could affect your processing at ccbill or other companies.

I'm not saying iBill isn't at any fault here, hence the comment iBill could have been more proactive.
I also don't believe for a second they sat back and waited for this to happen, right after the courts ruled against them, there was a new bank in place and I don't think that kind of thing generally happens overnight. I believe iBill thought they could win this, and maybe with the new purchase coming up thought they had a little better of a hand to play than they were actually dealt. Ok, I admit I don't like people gambling with my money but I still think 100% that iBill got cheated here and I'm not about to bail on them now. Isn't is frustrating that right now they have a new bank implemented but we can't accept Visa transactions, I for one have paid over $1000 in the last 12 months to accept Visa and for the next couple of weeks I can't accept Visa. That's not iBill, that's the fucking regulations Visa has with the Adult Industry!
Again, I'm not saying don't be frustrated with iBill...all I'm saying is don't bail on iBill because other companies are making it difficult for iBill to resolve this. There are few players left in the business to process our transactions...don't isolate the few that we have because others are making it difficult for them to continue!