Then I guess we don't have too long to wait and see, do we?

Oh come on guys, here is how i see this play out ( Place your bets )

A lot of webmasters are waiting to see if they get paid on the 1st. if they dont there will probally be mass changing of processors ( even more than now) When I bill eventually gets their systems back on line it will be too late, the only people left with them will be tiny little sites billing 5-10 people a week. Ibil wont be able to make payrol so their staff will leave and Ibill will fold.

Who is going to stay with a processor who cant pay?

Huh? I bumped this thread from the bottom of page 3 because I want to see more answers to other peoples questions. I certainly am not kissing anyones ass. Maybe you missed the big FUCK YOU IBILL i wrote earlier in the thread? Believe me I am pissed!

I am however grateful that Adam actually came on here to respond to some the questions. After a week of canned statements from them direct answers are certainly appreciated.

If this was any business other than online porn you'd have a point :glugglug

how come no one from IBill has answered this question??

Those financials are of Care Concepts, not iBill. I dont believe you can look at the Care Concepts SEC financial disclosures and infer any judgement on iBill's financials from them.

The ISO plan they have for their clients leaves alot of questions like

A) Will clients have to be approved for the merchant acct? iBill has said that they would be underwriting the accounts but can the bank still require some of the basics they usually require for the merchant account setup? For example most banks require that the applicants be USA citizens and they cannot have bad credit.

B) Will the clients be required to have personal guarantees? (thats where you have to sign off for the liabilities of your merchant acct and technically put up your house should the merchant acct get screwed). Its one thing when you get a merchant acct and have the ability to manage it, its another when a third party controls the merchant acct management decisions. I would be very uncomfortable with putting up my house to another's management decisions.

C) Will there be check cutting done by iBill? Those of us who utilize revshare in our affiliate programs would have to begin implementing an upgrade to our accounting staff to make accomodations for checks should we be now required to do this. In most ISO situations the banks directly fund the merchant account holders and therefore the checks are the account holder's responsibility.

Those are three questions right off the top of my head, given some time to think on this some more, I'm sure I'd have alot more to ask.

Im calling a BS on this one

Anyone who can read financials knows perfectly well that Care concepts is a shell company.... the financials a webmaster is referring to are Ibills.... that were public.... Ibill are the ones 11 million in the hole... not care concepts.... because care concepts has no $$

iBill is reminding me so much of PSWBilling when they were on their way out. PSWBilling kept telling everybody they would get paid and people held on to them hoping to get paid until the last minute. PSWBilling talked about sueing VISA with money they didn't have to pay thier clients just like iBill talks about sueing First Data with money they don't have to pay thier clients.

I think iBill will survive this mess, but I also thought the same of PSWBilling. I don't use either company. It's just weird to see the same thing play out all over again (like how people react and how the company reacts).

honestly the only way IBill will survive this is if webmasters turn a blind eye. I was royally pissed when someone said that Care Concepts is not apart of IBill -when in fact anyone who can read financials knows perfectly well that Care concepts is a shell company.

do they think we are that stupid??

not good

looks like they do :Graucho

Only 10% Ibill's clients live in Europe?

agreed, I work with thousands of webmasters who are great friends of mine. I do not subsribe to any of the billing companies so unlike scoreman who is a lawyer and is in tight with IBill - I have no bonds, just protecting my webmaster friends.

but to come up and lie to me, when scoreman knows full well as does IBill and tell me that "Care Concepts has nothing to do with IBill and is a separate company" when in fact they and those who read their financials know Care Concepts is a shell company - pisses me off.

I have heard too many times how IBill treats people like shit, and expects that we are going to beleive the excuses that are given when in fact mismanagement and stupidity / greed is what is to blame here. Until now they refuses to look after their debts

They are not going to be let off the hook that easily nor make us beleive that everything is okay

Nobody said everything was okay. Everything is not okay, but they are working to repair any damage that has happened. I am sure you have your reasons to grind the axe, but others experience with Ibill may be different, and they have our money that we use to feed our children. So, we are hoping for the best.

This is priceless. First you call "bullshit" and then you come out and call me a liar.


Ok for starters I am no securities expert, but maybe you should point to these numbers you are speaking of. When I look at the Edgar filings made by Care concepts I see a company that publishes things like this:

"Total revenue for sales in the nine months ending September 30, 2003 was $263,500 compared to $542,808 in the nine months ending September 30, 2002, a decrease of $279,308. The decrease was due to the sales of marketing agreements, totaling $414,092 in the first nine months of 2002. "

and this

"Costs and expenses totaled $148,301 in the quarter ended September 30, 2003, including $25,119 for selling, general and administrative costs; and $123,182 for management fees. Costs and expenses totaled $221,966 for the quarter ended September 30, 2002, including selling, general and administrative costs of $176,966 and management fees of $45,000. "

Are these the assets you are referring to? Any disclosure of assets that you could have been shown of Care Concepts would have been from the previous quarter. Care Concepts last SEC filings came in August and were for results that ended in June 30th 2004. At no time has Care Concepts listed iBill assets in their SEC disclosures except to say that iBill had "Unaudited revenue"

In short, the "financials" you are talking about ARE all about Care Concepts and NOT iBill.

Oh, one more thing. Fuck you for calling me a liar you asshole.

Just another sobering thought for your morning coffee.


If Ibill goes down, so do your 6 months of reserves, which , if you are like me, that can add up to tens of thousands :(

I dont mean to attack you personally, lets keep this above board here as Im sure you have alot at stake as does my webmaster friends if IBill goes under... but I will say on record that it is only ibill, who keeps telling everybody that everything is fine, but it isn't!

Ibills financials, the last time they were made public showed that they were 11 million behind, and without continual transactions they would be in trouble and not able to pay webmasters is what is being referred to here..... not care concepts.

Care concepts does not have the ability to take on an 11 million dollar debt.

Question: why has care concepts rescinded their original offer to purchase ibill?

Answer: Ibill lost their processing bank, which has had a severe impact on the business, which they are fighting to repair. Care Concepts instead bought almost 50% of the company that owns ibill.

I'm fine with keeping this professional, but you can expect if you say that I am lying to you I will take that personally.

To my knowledge Care Concepts rescinded the deal because it was part of the agreement that should AMEX delist their stock due to the purchase, then the agreement was rescinded. AMEX wasnt too happy with this reverse merger as it was essentially allowing iBill to IPO without the usual oversight. IBill essentially was getting access to capital markets in the AMEX without Care Concept stockholder approval or any of the other usual requirements.

I would be one of the first to say that the IBD/iBill merger smells bad and looks shady.

As far as the 11 million debt you are referring to, I dont see it anywhere. Maybe you could post a link? I would hazard a guess that this debt has its origins with the fact that Intercept sold iBill to Penthouse Int'l for a small cash amount and a large note. That note would have been right around the amount of 11 millionish. In the event that note comes due, what do you think Intercept will do? Liquidating iBill is not the option I think they would choose as then their iBill asset goes for pennies on the dollar. They don't want iBill back so I would think they would renegotiate terms with the PHSL group.

correct, AMEX delisted them, they rescinded. How is any of this good for ibill or care concepts (whose stock has plumeted in the last days)?

My point is that this is not a good situation for care concepts, ibill, or any of their webmasters whom are now forced into getting their own merchant accounts while having to pay ibill fees?

You are on line with the 11 million note, renegotiate all you want, Ibill doesn't look to have enough reserves or cash to take a hit by Visa or to have all of the bank reserves held and still continue its day to day operations and pay the webmasters.

Im just very worried for my clients and webmaster friends of mine, and i sincerely feel that IBill is using a small bucket to scoop water out of a sinking liner here and tell us all that things will be okay.. Thing is (as Im sure you are more than aware of) we have all heard these stories before by other companies that have gone under.

I dont think that webmasters are that niave anymore, and ignoring then / not paying past monies owed and other situations mentioned here is the way too go for giving any confidence and trust that anything promised or assurances by IBill can be taken at face value.

I sure hope your right my friend, because like you - many webmasters have a great deal to loose and IBill has only managed one thing correctly in their companies dealings - how to pull the wool over everyones eyes.

I think the debt they are fighting with Intercept over is only $3.8 mil according to their 8-Ks
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...9-1_050704.htm
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...481/c32246.txt

Been with Ibill for several years. Never had the wool pulled over my eyes. If they are doing it now, then it will be the first time. I didn't get paid for 900 service when Worldcom went under. If that is what you are talking about, then they weren't paid the money either.

iBill has been solid for me also and I 'm not kissing their ass, if I wasnt happy I would change. They are keeping us posted of whats happening , creating a panic doesnt help anyone. They have been solid for us in past and I have no doubt they will continue to be solid in the future.

No. It isn't good.

I don't mind paying the fees. I see that as the cost of doing business...

Customer service is essential when running a successful business. It's just damned common sense to me.

I hope they don't go down. It will hurt many.

But, damn, I wish they would stop this bullshit and clean up their act.

have you totally not read anyones post ?? start on page one and read what webmasters are saying and how much money is adding up - glad your doing well and they are paying you.

Did they ask you to post that??

I went back from page one only one guy talks about being owed 4k . What are you talking about? To start yelling about not getting paid and the first hasnt come yet makes no sense . They are not a bank or a insurance company, they are a payment processor ,they can only pay us when they get paid its really that simple. Just like when I was in sales, I made the sale but until the company I worked for got the money, I didnt get paid.

So this event is the first negative feeling you have had toward Ibill? They didn't ask me to post, I am telling the truth. If they don't pay me, it will hurt. But they have always paid me in the past, except for worldcom debacle. When did you not get paid?

I am sorry scardog, I thought I had made myself clear in past posts that I do not myself deal with any billing company - so I have nothing to gain nor loose - what I am troubled about is the history of webmasters I have been dealing with that have been brushed off or lack of customer service by them.

I have been in this industry for coming up to 9 years with marketing and sales to webmasters both gay and straight. I have been to most trade shows - yet when IBill comes out with this, my ICQ lights up like a christmas tree with friends of mine who are webmasters that IBill owes money too and refuses to get back to them... and now this.

PSW went the same way - and many heard the same carefully worded speeches as IBill is doing now.

I am only trying to get answers for the many webmasters who ask - and dont get a straight answer.

I am thrilled and pleased that IBill looks after clients such as yourself, and I hope that more success stories are told. yet I do know that it is likely that they also have "friends" that are asked to stand up for them when the situation looks bad.

They haven't paid all EU Clients for August. And they received the money for August from their EU Processor.

So we made the sales, they got paid but they didn't forwarded the money but said they are in trouble you must understand that we have received the money but can't pay you.

How about that?

Scoreman, I re-read your post and my friend - you are hitting the nail on the head here with post: Ibill will no longer be able to cut any affiliate checks because they will not have access to the personal merchant accounts

I am wondering if anyone else realises this very important point?

Yes but that will be for the monies going forward. The monies owed right now were billed with iBill as an IPSP and as such they are the merchant account holder. I am very interested to hear the specifics on how the new setup will take place. My guess is that account holders can designate that iBill make the payout to the affiliates as always but that would affect the site owner's ability to get daily settlement, or have settlement paid directly into their accounts. In such a case, IBill will likely get the settlement and make payout. The Gateway billers like DHD Media and Netbilling allow this I believe. Mitch will come on here and clear it up if Im mistaken.

Mark from iBill himself said that it is not looking good as far as getting paid on time
Already EU clients have not been, I've heard affiliates have not been paid (I'm not sure if that's true or not).

It's true no affiliates have been paid for the Sept 22 payouts.

At the end of the day this is all about who you trust with your money. After years of miss management, deceit, withholding of funds and huge refund percentages. Last year i changed all our affiliate programs over to CCbill and Epoch. Its the best move i ever made for our affiliates and for our profits.

I sincerely hope that all the webmasters owed large amounts from Ibill get paid out on time. But you guys owe it to yourself and your affiliates to get a backup, don't wait until even more shit hits the fan. The $750 you pay out for a backup will be the best money you spend in this business.


.

be great to here what he has to say as well, but I am wondering that if they can actually cut the checks, then why wouldn't we go over to Mitch and get it much cheaper?

I've been with Ibill for the last 3 years and over the last year payments from them have started to get later and later and when I've emailed payables to ask why, I dont even get an answer.
That is not good business.

They have about 16k of mine. I've moved all my business over to ccbill and wont be going back. Although an account such as mine isnt much to worry about losing when compared to some of the bigger players. I'm sure there are loads of others just like myself who just think Fuck em and leave.

Also since I've gone over to CCbill, my turn overs gone up by about $100 per day. I'm not sure if it's because they accept more cc cards or because people trust them more or it may just be a short term jump.

They also charge less fees and keep less money back.

i still dont understand how they can just "not have" all that money from holdbacks and the 1-15 of september.

by ibill's own admission, FD is only holding that one week of processing revenue. therefore, ibill should have on hand, 6 months of holdback, as well as the monies collected the 1-15 of september.

where is that money??

me too.

that is a bit unfair to IBill - FD has a hold on the account from my understanding, its not like IBill has it sitting in their bank accounts or buying groceries for their employees and not paying webmasters. VISA and the banks are squeezing IBill's balls and in turn, we see that and are squinching our eyes saying, "thats gotta hurt!!" - IBill in reply like any politician or statesman who has to protect their interests - are looking at us with tearied eyes, and with the best of voice saying, "naw - doesnt hurt a bit"

IBill is having their balls squeezed and kick, and webmasters are vicariously feeling the effects, but unlike IBill, can scream, "fuck that hurts!!!"

Would be nice to get your act together for the people that do processing with you...............................