Very keen Marc

Thats all I wanted to understand ;) I do realize you can track type ins, most of our clients do that, but I was not 100% sure what exactly you did count as www sales... Also, it might be easy to meassure the general www sales, BUT what you can not track is why they typed it in, or what SE they came from and why you got indexed there... It could be that it is because you have the PPS program, it could very well also be because it is a sale from a surfer that you sent to the site originally from internal traffic sources... so it IS not 100% accurate and correct to count those sales into the PPS profitability and it is very hard to figure out how much of a percentage of those www sales should be calculated in.

Of course non referred sales because of technical issues (or a list of other possible issues) is gravy, but again, we run 99-100% referral rate. In fact today we're running 100% referred. You can't count on errors to account for any profitability or 'free' sign ups.

Now you're pulling teeth :) www sales are mostly generated by promotional material, previous visitors, and previous customers.

Marc no one is saying that. There is a reason why so many webmasters rushed back to ARS with their new sites and models. You made us all money in the past, and we want back on the train.

:thumbsup

Do rewards points affect all of this? And no one is mentioing size bonuses.

Also the number one thing a Program needs is a big dog site. One site that kills for a while. These make the whole PPS or revshare a mute point I bet. Example, milf hunter, bang bus or tawnee stone. Topcash and TCG did this with their reality change over.

Like I said already in my previous reply, I know what tracking is and how to do it. But you posted in an older post:

How do you track a referral rate on a referred click? Most likely I am misunderstanding what you are saying here, but what it looks like is that you say you know that of every referred click 99.5% actually get credited to the right reseller. But 0.5% are somehow not, BUT you STILL know they ARE referred clicks? What exactly do you mean by this? How do those 0.5% get created or tracked?

Just curious here...

Well ;) Thats what these discussions are for, no? To get as much info and as much depth as possible...

If you say most are promo material, previous visitors and previous customers.. that would mean you can never submit your site to SEs or optimize them, since all that traffic is in-house in my oppinion, no? OR you would somehow track those sales using another affiliate code I guess, but that also would be a pain to achive accurately.

A referred click would be a click through going through our referral script. We can track a sale back to a referring account if it doesn't go through our referral script. As you pointed out, you know what tracking is and how it works... Go off that knowledge base.

The 0.5% that didn't get referred yesterday would be based upon server errors, net errors, user errors, scripting errors, DB errors, a huge list could follow but you get the point. Our systems are very accurrate.

Also, your comment on generating traffic or SE work - you simply use another internal account number.

slapass - a big site makes things easy... ARS had 3 big sites, Adult Movie Station, All Petite, and MILF Search :)

Right now we're doing big numbers with XXX Teen Tease and Chicks Go Both Ways.

Marc, did you start your programs off as revshare way way way back whenever you launched and then eventually moved into the PPS arena? Like how did you bankroll it in the beginning?

Haven't you heard of "per confirmed signup"?

If it didn't work or it wasn't profitable We wouldn't be doing it.
Why should we show you how to be profitable with it? some know how and some will go broke. 8 years of experience in PPS and we have gone broke a couple times till we learned the formula.

Nice read.

Sure I can make it work.

Pay on primary processor only and keep all secondary and checks is a good place to start. I'm smarter than you are giving me credit for. Don't be so defensive. This was a thread to educate and attain knowledge not an attack on any specific program. My intention is not to bash but rather to discuss and so far Marc is the only one who has participated and was very informative.

At first glance I felt like it was slamming PPS programs I do apologize.
But the truth of the matter is I don?t think any of the PPS programs or at least the successful ones who are mainly sponsors are not going to give away the golden goose. We have paved the way and helped many with the information available these days and it?s only hurt us. Or at least that?s how I feel.

There are a ton of variables when it comes to running a program.
The PPS model works when you have built up a member?s database.
Because the first 6 months to a year you will be in the negative so you have to have some capitol to back it up unlike a rev-share program.

There are also a lot of factors involved in how you run your business and maintain a low overhead.

I?ve seen many programs fold Revshare and PPS programs over the years it?s all about numbers.

PPS is very competitive and you can easily loss everything if you don?t know what your doing been there done it but we?ve learned from our experience. You have to continually tweak and find ways to increase your revenue every little thing adds up.


This is why it?s important to back your sponsors who keep putting back into the industry. I don?t do business with anyone who doesn?t. Just because a rev-share program looks good doesn?t mean it will perform well or make it. That?s why I only trust those who have experience and history in the industry before I promote them.

Nathan, its quite simple. The affialtes promote the sites and so people start searching for those domains, type ins increase, movies are downloaded and spread around the net, banners and url's are remembered. whatever it is, its about 25% of most programs sales are from sales not tracked to affilates.

And the good thing about promoting a PPS model is you get most of that money because the PPS model programs depend on those untracked signups and all their upsales and mailings to ex members to pay out that $35 per signup. If your promoting recurring programs you dont' get NONE of that money from untracked or type in sales.

Typeins increase with the more affilates pushing the sites, and the more traffic the more typeins and free signups to the program. Doesn't make the PPS programs rich because they already accounted for that 25% and are paying the affilate that as part of the $35 for the $4.95 trial.

Recurring is nice for monthly income but PPS is best for total money.

BTW I forgot to mention that webmasters will make allot more with a PPS program with a sponsor who knows what there doing then any other model. plus you have the security that we will pay and be around for a while.

then again everyone has there own opinion on this. only time will tell...

Marc so your cookies don't work when the affialtes type in the domain name, you cut those sales off for yourself. That has to add another 5%+ to the WWW typein sales i'm sure.

Not a bad idea, allows you to pay higher payouts. One of the ways you do the $40 per signup on ARS now I guess.

Good stuff and thanks for the info Marc. Your numbers are a little scary to me, if you really take 10 months to make money, we can do the same in half the time or less but we all have our different pricing and business models for our different programs.

Your certainly ahead of the pack with your EMX.com billing model, nice conversion ratio's on that I saw the join process first hand after signing up. 80%+ conversions i'm sure :-) nice work doing that new billing model its something that will be copied many times over like g3x.com has done.

What it comes down to is the one who can payout the most and make a profit will do well. That?s why we have a few PPS models because webmasters with volume demand different things.

Its all about Volume and Branding

If there was a standard in this business everyone would be Rich.

How sites track visitors is relevant as well, and many do it differently. Session ID's, cookies etc. can men missed payouts to affiliates - and I promote a few sites that use those techniques. I'm sure I've missed some sales and the sponsor is getting 100% of the sale.

In any event, ANY site also gets non-referred sales. The % is a complete mystery to me but correct me if I'm wrong - but doesn't a healthy number of non-referred sales help balance the books?

What it comes down to is the one who can payout webmasters the most and make a profit will do well. That?s why we have a few PPS models because webmasters with volume demand different things.

Its all about Volume and Branding

If there was a standard in this business everyone would be Rich.

Hey, thanks for the compliment! EMX is doing KILLER, both sales wise and conversion wise. We're doing over 500 / day and soon to breech 1000 / day! :) Its quite profitable too.

On the front about cookies and www sales - we don't take any www sales by not crediting a sign up by any means. Only if the surfer goes to www on their own from a referral, seeing it on a banner, or repeat business. Again we maintain a near perfect ref % from all referred traffic! :)

25% is wayyyyy high on the number of sales coming from those types of sales... but again in that 20% figure of additional income I use, the non referred (www) sales are just a portion of it.

Also we don't use cookies to track sales, too flakey for something that important.

fraud is a big probelm with pps, you better have good ways of detecting it

80% trial to monthly sounds good

lest we not forget that 99% of these programs have a 5-15% shave... whether blatently or by not paying on dialers or other things that you may not notice.....

but this is all hush hush hush... but i'll say it anyways.

Marc, Happy to see EMX is doing very well. You guys are doing a good job on the VOD front.

Jay
www.objectcube.com

Slappass: I was only speaking of the CE program in the past tense. Actually, to its credit, CE was one of the first companies to lower PPS payouts.

It's so interesting that you say this. This is the the primary reason why I almost exclusively promote revshare sites

It's so interesting that you say this. This is the the primary reason why I almost exclusively promote revshare paysites.

sorry for the double post above....the board has slowed to a crawl at the moment.

.........

I highly doubt its all hush hush hush... The honest and up front operators will tell you exactly what you do and do NOT get credit for... As long as its out in the open and disclosed its not even close to a 'shave'.

Firefox and Win XP sp2 and no pop-up whatsoever here..

it dont work in firefox

So do you pay on every processor as well as checks? Or do you just pay on the primary. Also do you pay on foreign traffic joins?

Just curious....Thanks Marc

I would also like to know if most PPS programs pay on checks as well. Anyone here know? I checked a couple of the TOS for a couple programs, but maybe I'm looking in the wonrg place.

I can see one aspect of it, if a webmaster knew that he had 100% US/Canada Traffic, and a demographic on how much of that was CC processors (lets say 80-90%) it could be profitable. Would like to know others thoughts on it.

Nice thread, let's give it a bump :thumbsup

some programs pay on checks, but they offer a lower payout on them

I must be seeing things...... a thread on GFY that actually has to do with business