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-   -   Does PPS really work? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=408940)

Zprogramz 07-02-2005 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A C
Trial $2.95
Recurring $39.95
Ratio 30%
Avg Months 3
Gross $38.91
Proc. Fee $5.84 (15%)
Refunds $3.89 (10%)
Net $29.18

Doesn't work w/o member upsells, exits, emails, etc.. that's where all the $ is made, obviously. A good site can net about $10 per join before administrative expenses imo..
Run your own merchant accounts and pay 1/2 of that in processing fees. It will increase you botom line for sure.

Z

Zprogramz 07-02-2005 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog
sign up for 2k memberships under your own credit cards for a $1 a piece
Unless you have hundreds of credit cards, the bank will catch on to that and clode you down.

Z

Theo 07-02-2005 08:10 PM
maybe its about time someone to admit wrong and unban Alex

kernelpanic 07-02-2005 08:13 PM
It depends on your traffic, whether or not your surfers will retain long enough for revshare to be more profitable.

Personally, revshare usually pays better for me, and I like the steady income.

RogerV 07-02-2005 08:15 PM
Oh yes our PPS rocks :thumbsup

kernelpanic 07-02-2005 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zprogramz
Run your own merchant accounts and pay 1/2 of that in processing fees. It will increase you botom line for sure.

Z
won't last very long

QuaWee 07-02-2005 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel
maybe its about time someone to admit wrong and unban Alex
why was he ban?

Zprogramz 07-02-2005 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kernelpanic
won't last very long
What won't last very long? A merchant account. We have had ours for years.

Z

Mako 07-02-2005 10:12 PM
There was no need to bump this thread bigdog.

Done to death.

Theo 07-04-2005 05:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuaWee
why was he ban?
AMP got banned and probably deserved it (havent read the thread), but except him most people associated to j&a got banned that day for no reason. Alex was in vacations while he got banned. Not sure what kind of reasoning is this.

TheDoc 07-04-2005 07:13 AM
Wow, this is an old thread with some old info on it.. :)

Dollarmansteve 07-04-2005 07:26 AM
there's no money in PPS.

tranza 07-04-2005 07:48 AM
Who bumped this thread?

bigdog 07-04-2005 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranza
Who bumped this thread?
i bumped it

David - PG 07-04-2005 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zprogramz
Run your own merchant accounts and pay 1/2 of that in processing fees. It will increase you botom line for sure.

Z
The above assumptions were - let me quote it again -
Quote:
Trial $2.95
Recurring $39.95
Ratio 30%
Avg Months 3
Gross $38.91
Proc. Fee $5.84 (15%)
Refunds $3.89 (10%)
Net $29.18
How on earth will you bill this at 7.5% with your merchant account?

Gateway fee: 15 cents
Merchant Bank per Transaction: 50 cents (paid on every approved and declined (!) transaction)
Merchant bank: 4-6%
CB Fee: $35-$50
Refund fee: $0-$5

Throw in a couple chargebacks & refunds and you're quickly paying 9%-14% billing costs with your merchant account (assuming you have trials - and the CB, RF & decline numbers are industry standard). A merchant account is *NOT* cheaper than 3rd party on trials. This is a myth, a lie. It doesn't compute. Anything below 15% is good. That's the truth.

I see you in every thread throwing sand into people's eyes like that. Why? What is the purpose of this misinformation?

justsexxx 07-04-2005 08:42 AM
SO when AMP was pulling shit when he worked with adult.com erik, lensman etc would be banned too?

chadglni 07-04-2005 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teomaxxx
I sent in my whole adult webmaster career about 1.5k joins (a main part of them is not using trials) to revshare programs and noone, except one, made more than 35$ PPS. Almost all of them were good quality niche programs.
Even 30$ and above per member wasnt/isnt often, rather something between 22-27$ per member.
So i understand that some revshare programs says here they arent able to pay 30-35$ PPS
To me this statement just re-enforces the fact that a program can easily pay $35 or more PPS with no problems. If nobody can see why then it's not my concern.

Theo 07-04-2005 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by justsexxx
SO when AMP was pulling shit when he worked with adult.com erik, lensman etc would be banned too?
more likely, let's hope i wont run paranoid soon cause i'll get more with me :upsidedow

TheDoc 07-04-2005 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadglni
To me this statement just re-enforces the fact that a program can easily pay $35 or more PPS with no problems. If nobody can see why then it's not my concern.
Most flat rate programs charge $35-$40 a month for total crap sites. Most have x-sales and 2-5 exits. Most mail bomb past members with spam. Most MUST have a high volume of joins to make it worth while. ALL flatrate programs have massive problems with webmaster fraud.

Most programs can pay $35 a sale but most don't want to put up with all the extra BS of running a higher paying flat rate program.

Theo 07-04-2005 12:03 PM
I always believed a good revshare will make webmasters more money than almost any PPS. There are PPS programs with awesome members areas that retain and others with horrible ones having same payouts. You are the judge on this.

Also stating that revshare programs are by default those that cannot payout what a PPS can it's a nonsense bullshit.

Varius 07-04-2005 01:55 PM
Here's how I see it:

Programs take more risk on PPS, while affiliates have the lower risk. That is why affiliates generally earn less money on PPS than with Revshare.

Let's assume the site's average rebill is 3 months. Commonly, the program might offer up 50-60% of three months membership as the high-end of their PPS scale. Some might only offer 30-40% though, depending on their expenses (as well as greed lol).

For Revshare, they probably offer something in the 40-70% range. This means that on average, a Revshare affiliate WILL earn more than a PPS affiliate. The program has a LOT less risk on Revshare since they will only payout money earned already, while on PPS they take a risk that the person's signups do rebill at their average.

If the program actively monitors their retention rate and revenues, they should be in fine shape offering both Revshare and PPs. I think the only ones who find themselves in trouble, are those who offer more than hey can afford to be 'competitive', or those who set their PPS rates based on variable revenue (such as upsells).

In conclusion, test out the program yourself. If you start on PPS and notice the site does rebill well, start switching some traffic over to Revshare.

That's my comments, I don't think I'm saying anything that isn't already obvious though :winkwink:

undermyspell 07-04-2005 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel
maybe its about time someone to admit wrong and unban Alex
Don't hold your breath. I doubt that will happen. FYI. Alex is fine and is working on a couple of his properties in San Diego remodeling them.

I don't think he misses this board in the least.

Zprogramz 07-04-2005 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David - PG
The above assumptions were - let me quote it again -How on earth will you bill this at 7.5% with your merchant account?

Gateway fee: 15 cents
Merchant Bank per Transaction: 50 cents (paid on every approved and declined (!) transaction)
Merchant bank: 4-6%
CB Fee: $35-$50
Refund fee: $0-$5

Throw in a couple chargebacks & refunds and you're quickly paying 9%-14% billing costs with your merchant account (assuming you have trials - and the CB, RF & decline numbers are industry standard). A merchant account is *NOT* cheaper than 3rd party on trials. This is a myth, a lie. It doesn't compute. Anything below 15% is good. That's the truth.

I see you in every thread throwing sand into people's eyes like that. Why? What is the purpose of this misinformation?
Chargeback fee is $25 and our chargebacks are less than 1/4 of 1%. Refund fee (30¢) does not happen if there is a chargeback and visa-versa. Not only that but we control our own scrubbing through Netbilling so we get at least 15% better conversions than we ever did with 3rd party processing.

BTW - Our processing rate at the bank is 4.5% and 30¢.

It is not sand. It is the truth. We save money, period!

Z

cjaccardi 07-04-2005 11:00 PM
drop the trial sign ups they suck

bigdog 07-05-2005 03:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoc
Most flat rate programs charge $35-$40 a month for total crap sites. Most have x-sales and 2-5 exits. Most mail bomb past members with spam. Most MUST have a high volume of joins to make it worth while. ALL flatrate programs have massive problems with webmaster fraud.

Most programs can pay $35 a sale but most don't want to put up with all the extra BS of running a higher paying flat rate program.
your views on pps programs surely has changed from way back

Shap 08-28-2005 01:22 PM
This is a great thread. I missed it the first time around and I've only read the first page so far. I have to say MarcDe has showed why he has been as successful as he has been.

body 08-28-2005 01:35 PM
why I get redirected?

Turf 08-29-2005 03:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by body
why I get redirected?
look at the date the thread started ? ;)

older than dirt but still a very interesting and usefull thread!

Xenophage 02-18-2006 12:08 PM
Paysite math this is a good thread

Pornwolf 02-18-2006 01:05 PM
Yeah, I'm glad you bumped it. This is a classic thread. Probably one of the top 5 ever on this board.

shuki 02-18-2006 01:31 PM
Great read indeed

Eservices2k3 02-18-2006 02:15 PM
No it doesn't. Sell your program immediately! :winkwink:

Pornwolf 02-18-2006 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoc
10,000 sign-ups total = payout: $350,000
10,000 sign-ups X 500 uniques = 5 million hits

60% trials = 6,000 trials X $4.95 = $29,700
40% full month = 4,000 full X $39.95 = $159,800

30% trial convert = 1,800 full X $39.95 = $71,910

1st month members = 5800
2nd month members = 2610 @ 55% drop X $39.95 = $104,269
3rd month members = 1174 @ 55% drop X $39.95 = $46,901

Total: $412,580 - 12% processing = $363071


10% of sign-ups is an xsale = $10 per sale = $10,000
50% of the traffic will see the exit, 1:3000 convert to view rate X $35 per sale = $29166

New Total: $402237 profit of = $52237
Still have longer-term retention; e-mails, hope to god better exit results, up sells, and a mixture of other areas pps programs make money. Some don't pay on checks, web900, etc.. Some say they do, but don't. Type-in traffic from webmaster screwups or just for whatever reason.. And a mixture of other BS that paysites can earn income with.


Some programs can run PPS with no xsales and much lower exit rates, as long as retention is good. First off "MOST" programs have a 20% trial to convert rate. 30-35% isn't easy to his these days. 45% month to month, isn't bad, not what most PPS programs sit at.



Fact is, you CAN run a PPS program, and not shave. Well my math could be off some :)
A good, no bs, recurring program, will crush a PPS in payouts though.. Joins are worth $80-$120 on average.. Do you want $35ps or $40-$60+ after a split.. Invest over time, or instant return. The above math is $36 per join value just after 3 months. Long-term retention would put it over $80 a join. Earning you more than a PPS program. I have to admit though; it needs to be a good revshare system.
I've been in the biz for 7 years now and I have found this to be very true.

bigdog 02-18-2006 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pornwolf
Yeah, I'm glad you bumped it. This is a classic thread. Probably one of the top 5 ever on this board.
This is one of the best threads ever, should be bumped every couple months

Pornwolf 02-18-2006 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog
This is one of the best threads ever, should be bumped every couple months
Yeah. We need to do another one at the end of the year since I'm sure a few things will have changed.

bigdog 02-19-2006 05:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pornwolf
Yeah. We need to do another one at the end of the year since I'm sure a few things will have changed.
Yeap the doc should revise his numbers from what he has seen of late

polish_aristocrat 08-13-2007 01:03 AM
this was a very good thread

I wonder how much of it is still valid today

Snake Doctor 08-13-2007 01:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat (Post 12919678)
this was a very good thread

I wonder how much of it is still valid today
Alot of things have changed in the biz since this thread was started.

Hell I make over $40 per join on some revshare programs with trials nowadays, so I have no doubt that people can pay out that much PPS easily.

BucksMania 09-12-2007 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog (Post 9298216)
This is one of the best threads ever, should be bumped every couple months
okay :)
.....

slapass 10-19-2007 12:50 PM
After this thread, I am surprised to see that PPS is paying more now and not less. What changed?


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