ATKCash is a bunch of idiots. I also had a bullshit ratio of 300,000:1... I brought it up with them and after looking into it I noticed that they count hits to galleries and not hits to the tour. I decided to stop promoting them. Waste of my time.

BTW, I run several TGP's that skim at 60% and I have absolutely no problem getting signups or traffic to my galleries. My TGP's pay me $2000 a month with about 120K in traffic. I will not be complaining and it appears my surfers are not complaining either.

They are not the only sponsor that don't want their thumbs to go elsewhere but the gallery. Nothing odd about that.

LOL... this thread is amazing. did anyone ever think about the possibility that ATKCash doesn't have to be a "big" program.... hell, how do you know they even NEED affiliates? you cats don't make them money, their customers do.... so who do you think they are going to cater to? hell, if i spend 150k+ a month on exclusive content, i'd make sure nobody freely used my shit anywhere (thumbs or otherwise). the main reason adult doesn't get respect is because of the practices that some of you in this very thread perpetuate.

but fuck it... this thread isn't gonna change the net porn world... it isn't going to lose ATK any money (or affiliates for that matter)... so back to the original point. they don't want you as an affiliate, STFU & find another program to promote.

yes, i'm in ATK affiliate & i've known many of their crew personally for many years & no, they really don't need affiliates and i DREAM of having my paysites run exactly like that. surviving, florishing and profiting without anybody's traffic but my own. that's good business.

..

Dude, that post brought tears to my eyes. It was really quite touching. You have a way with words that just brings the fucking message home in such a beautiful way.

















DISCLAIMER: I've been playing Cinco De Mayo drinking games and I'm a little buzzed. Maybe that explains the "tears to my eyes" thing. LOL

Read before you post ....

I simply love all this sponsors drama....

Did anyone forget that BW is so cheap that sponsors don't even care if people use hacked passwords to view their members areas now?

Excuse me?

I have VERY little fucking sympathy for you "Goodwill".

I came across your TGP the other night, and your trades seemed legal enough, but some of your trades linked to some pretty explicit and sometimes hardcore underage sites, not to mention one of them infected me pretty bad with an unkillable hijack that is forcing me to format tonight. Not cool when I get redirected to other sites and search engines and lost complete right click ability in IE. Sad part is, I was using Firefox when this happened.

Are you the same guy who runs juliepost? For some reason I found similarities with your site and the network owned by the makers of juliepost. If so I hope you rot in hell with your little BBS on that domain...

That aside, CCbill DOES count gallery hits as hits in general if using a ccbill linking code.

Here,s my tw cents on the whole issue if anyone cares.

Atk has every right to request that alla ffiliates send traffic to the program when their content is displayed.

You display an ATK image, you must send traffic from it to ATK. Simple enough right? Just because everyone else skims copyrighted content doesn;t mean it's right. Lots of people do things they shouldn't in this biz but it's swept under the rug.

Well here we have a program that can afford to enforce their terms. Every program has a clause that states their materials can only be used when promoting them. ATK stepped up and did one thing better and clearer, specified specifically about thumb tgp's.

it's this simple, if you make good money from them and want to keep making money, then stop skimming on their thumb and skim on the others who turn a blind eye to skimming.

All you idiots screaming "that's it. i'm pulling links" are only hurting yourselves. If you think that breaking copyright terms of services is perfectly acceptable because everyone else does it then I really think you're the idiots.

Sure, we work in an industry that uses thumbs to skim traffic but does that really means it's right? Because Mary down the street rapes her dog daily it's ok? Because everyone speeds on the freeway and you get caught speeding you're going to say "get with the times, everyone does it now" ???

In the USA it's not considered copyright violation to use a thumbnail image. ATK can enforce their own rule by terminating you as an affiliate, but using their thumbs on a skimming TGP is certainly not illegal.

Show me proof of this.

It's illegal to use content that is not authorized for the use it's being used for, in this case, sending traffic to alternative sites not authorized by the copyright holder.

It would be different if the terms stated specifically that it's ok to skim some of the traffic off.

I'm not saying that it's illegal to run a Skim TGP but it is a copyright violation when you use someone else's content to promote another site, which in ATK's case, it is illegal for people to use their thumbs to send other TGPs traffic because it is against their TOS. Also, other sponsors have terms in regards to not being allowed to use their content to promote other sites. Thus, technically it's illegal to use their content for a skimmed thumb. Do they enforce it? Naw, Should they? It's up to them depending on their business model.

If I was the head honcho of a sponsor no matter how big or small, I would definately put strict stipulations in the TOS about skimming with my content and call my lawyer the second I found someone using my content to pump up their own wallets while only complying with my terms and copyright rules every 5th click.

That's why I don't run skim thumb tgps. It's not my content to use to send traffic to others. it just isn't right.

it's like me selling newspapers on the corner and only paying the newspaper for every 5th paper sold.

what's so difficult to understand about all this? i run a busty solo girl site and do my best to make nice looking thumbs. of course i want the surfer to come to the gallery when he clicks on that thumb, not to another TGP. next time he sees my thumb he thinks "well, no need to click that - there's nothing of that girl anyways". so i lost a potential member. now my program is not attractive for most TGP guys anyways cause i cannot pay $35 pps - so i have to get my traffic from somewhere else.
but a site like ATK has enough own traffic built up in the last 6 or 7 seven years and such a high reputation that they are perfectly able to make their own rules. if someone doesn't want to comply - fine. more left on the table for those who are left and know what goldmine that can be.

:2 cents:

oh and Goodwill:

Care to explain this?

http://bitching-galleries.com/temp/virus.jpg

and the subsequent 4 other attempts after closing the window?

1. The affiliate got an email from ATK advising him he had poor conversions and a warning that he would be dropped because of a breach of TOS (skimming from their thumbnails) if he didn't fix one or both problems. So far so good.

2. The affiliate replied in reasonable terms making three valid points. The first that ATK counted visits to galleries as visits to their site, putting their stats on a completely different basis from that used by every other sponsor. True. He didn't refer directly to their TOS and he exaggerated by implying that all ATK affiliates used skimmed links. But if he had been accurate and said that a lot of ATK affiliates work exactly like he does, he would have been right again. His point that since most TGP's pass around a largely similar mix of traffic, conversions depend more on the sponsor's galleries and tours than on a specific site's traffic, was a fair comment, even if not one with which everyone would agree.

Chris may have seen this as an unhelpful response, but there was nothing to justify the way he reacted to it. He was flat out wrong - and later said so here - in what he originally wrote about ATK's stats, and the content and tone of his reply absolutely screams that he terminated this affiliate for no better reason than he could. Then he insulted all of us by a post here which at best was fluff and at worst seriously misleading. He even described his first email as intended to help the affiliate, when in reality it contained nothing except a complaint and a threat.

If Chris's first mail had said something to the effect that "We consider your conversion ratios to be too low and require you to reach such-and-such a level within the next # months, please contact me if you need any help in achieving this", he would not have opened the door to the response he got. But he didn't write anything as clear as that and he did use incorrect stats and he did invoke part of the TOS which ATK appear to mostly ignore. If anyone here had received a similar email, I'm damn sure their response would have been similar and I'm damn sure they would be equally upset if the next mail they got was a termination of their account.

No-one has said ATK doesn't run great sites. People may not like their TOS (although I believe it is wrong they use them to terminate people but do not enforce them broadly) but they are entitled to impose any conditions they like (and that includes deciding that any association with the word 'lolita' is unacceptable). And maybe down the road this guy would have been terminated. But right here and now he was treated unfairly and unprofessionally and sending any other message is the same as telling ATK and every other sponsor that it's okay to treat affiliates like crap. That is an incredibly stupid message for affiliates to be sending out...

interesting

i was just thinking WTF!!! and tried to click that away :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Got the exact same thing here...not to mention that some of the "girls" on some thumbs look under 12..... :helpme

Unfortunately my site got hacked or somehow infected by server side include thing which adds to every .cgi script this iframe, I already called support to fix it.

Do you just want to fight tonight?

Look under 12 and Are under 12 are not the same thing.

I can assure you I don't say girls look under 12 all the time, its clear who (at least those photos) catter tho...

Edit: everybody else is free to check for yourself -> www.seavirgin.com , the more I look at that site the more it rings "fake pedo site"... :helpme

So what? You need 120K daily to make $2000 a month? That must be because you send 95% of your visitors away to other TGP's.
I'm not using blind links and don't even need to buy stupid scripts but make $5000 a month with 15K...

Well who's to say that it was actually the first email that was sent to gooodwill in the first place. It is possible it was the 2nd or 3rd or whatever, which may be reasonable for the tone of the email.

If it was the first email then yeah he probably could have and should have been a bit less harsh and offered to see what the issues were and offer to help or give the affiliate a chance to correct any issue he saw before threatening him with termination.

In any case, ATK is a rock solid company and is still a benchmark that most in this biz try to emulate and have never done me wrong.

BULL - I was up for u on the first page dude, but that's the standrad fucking refrain frpm tossers who put shit on their sites (may also explain the conversion ratio)

ah the age old "a hacker did it" excuse. CLassic :)

Isnt that the most convienent excuse. I never tire of hearing that one!

120k of traffic (if that's daily traffic) bringing $2000 a month is not very good IMO.

Got a link to your site with 15K paying $5000 a month?

I think you make much less and do "other" things like post galleries and what not that help shore up the $5000.

It is unique per day for traded traffic. Some would call it CJ, I call it the new TGP shit that is available to a non-micro-niched site.

I make the majority of my money from other things like free pages, SEO stuff, etc... Free pages wise I get closer to $20,000 on 120K uniques. Though it takes a lot longer to obtain them ;)

Ahh, I think I found it, nice site!

which site is it?

I wont to argue with someone who wont to hear the truth, you also certainly dont read what is written here

is it the truth just because you say it is?

Show some proof that you got "hacked"

If your scripts are that insecure then you need to do something about it.

You also need to start watching who you trade with more closely because a few of them trade with child sites and fake CJ's using underage models.

I couldn't find any pedo links either. By the way you have a great looking site there :)

Wow.



5678

This argument comes up time and time again and people obviously have strong beliefs either way.

I won't comment further except to add that skimming increases traffic and therefore increases sales. I'd rather have a heap of lower quality traffic making more sales than a small amount of top quality traffic making less.

fancy some copying...eh :1orglaugh

No, Grandma we aren't looking to make copies.