In the non adult world, a lot of people stopped using Amazon's affiliate program because Amazon started doing adding more links, and doing more things to try to get affiliate sent traffic to buy things that affiliates don't get paid on.

I'm not commenting on any specific sponsor, but if any sponsor is going to sell a surfer 2 memberships, and only pay us for one, then they should be honest about it and tell us.

Instead of saying $40 per signup, they should say $20 per signup, or they should pay $80 when the person we sent signs up for two memberships.

Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, but they should be clear and honest about what they are doing. If they give us the information up front, then we can decide is that idea, and that payout structure works for us.

If you have to find out about this kind of stuff from some guy/girl on a bulletin board, then it gives the appearance of being sneaky, whether it really is or not.

Alli... your missing the MAJOR POINT!

the fact that the surfer has an option to sign-up somewhere else, after they ALREADY signed up (user, e-mail and pass)

We don't give a shit about the results. The fact that you you are taking away a for sure sale ...

It's like I said to Amber of Flynt Digital just the other day, "It's a shame what goes on within the Adult Online Industry ... Shaving and other Bullshit happends so much we have, sadly, come to accept it ... :( ... You wouldn't get far in 'real-life' biz if you tried some of these pratices ... the REALLY sad part is that the companyies (and People) that pull these stunts seem to Excell :(

ld & Jimmy3way ... some times I just close my eyes and remeber the good old CTC TopCash days :thumbsup ... all good things must come to an end, it seems.

- Wes

"It's a shame what goes on within the Adult Online Industry ..."

... oh gimmy a fucking break ... you probably still fall for a program that claims to payout $150 per free join ...

Link?


:)

It's a check box... how many times have you gone somewhere and seen a check box when you sign up? Shit... typing right now on this gfy post I see 3 check boxes below me.

They don't have the option to sign up somewhere else. They have the option to get a free trial to another site along with their paid membership. If anything, to many surfers it looks like an added incentive to sign up (a free trial to more porn).

There is no link or advertisement to divert the surfers attention- it is 3 lines of text and a check box...

~~Alli

Whats your problem ???

Allison--

So, Is it possible to loose sales due to the cross billing?

Also, do you make the exact same cross billing offer for every affiliate?

Some said they saw the free signup offer was AFTER the card number was entered and they could not uncheck the box, and some said it was BEFORE and you had to check the box.

Are some affiliates getting different signup pages then others? This could explain whay some webmasters have maintained good conversions and others have seen their conversions get worse.

Cameraman.. the way the cross sell is set up, it happens after the page where the member enters their personal info. On the next page, below the credit card information the member has the choose to get a free membership(that converts after 5 days) by checking a box. This is the same for all join pages

The whole box checking is not forced and if any webmasters have seen a page where they could not uncheck the box, we will be happy to fix that problem.

thnx

Alli

You guys crack me up...

My last payment from topbucks:

http://www.all-sex-stories.com/tb999.jpg

Let me see if I can remember the last three threads mentioning specific complaints about topbucks:

1) This one - person complains about box that they claim can not be unchecked AND that you are FORCED to sign up for free membership.

It is obvious now that this was NOT what happened. Person accidently checked the box that said "get free membership" and then got the signup screen.

2) This week or last - person complains about sign up "disappearing" TopBucks stats.

Turns out person had wrong date checked when checking stats.

3) Person complains they signed up themselves and didn't get credit.

Turns out - person did get credit, but DIDN'T READ where it takes 24 hours for iBilll sales to show.

*** In all three cases, the FACT is THE WEBMASTER DID NOT READ SOMETHING CORRECTLY. ***

TopBucks rules. I could care less what they do to make themselves more money - I am getting what I always get good conversions and sales increasing every pay period. TopBucks can add a check box for "click here and buy a house for $1,000,000.00". I don't care. If YOU REALLY think this is going to effect your bottom line - for an UNCLICKED checkbox - oh well - I don't know what to say. If I want to get paid on upsells and stuff like that - I will start my own site.

Alli--

If it works as you have described then I don't see any problem with it. It is just another sales attempt, like at super market checkout. It would be nice to get a commission on it since the webmaster sent the customer, but I don't see that you would be obligated to pay anybody for it.

But if that is not the answer, then the question remains unanswered. Why are some webmasters seeing conversions way down with TopBucks in past few month or so? Has anything else been changed?

Doesn't that make your opinion a little invalid, bro?

I'm extremely dubious about Alli's arguments that this is such a great thing for webmasters because I'm 99% sure that she doesn't have any kind of aggregate numbers whatsoever to back up her claims. That's simply not the way TopBucks has ever worked and I doubt it does now.

She claims they tested the programme, really? Give us the results! I'd be interested as hell to see who they tested it with, what kinda traffic these people threw at it, when the testing period was, who the control group was, etc, etc.

Maybe even some of them could come to the board and share their experience.

See the thing is anytime she (Allison) seems to need to do anything industry related she seems to come to this board (ie, looking for models, midgets, Florida content producers, etc.) I would think if they were looking for beta testers she might have mentioned it here...

However, the simple fact is there's nothing wrong with what they're doing...I originally misunderstood exactly how it worked...but it remains: as an affiliate you sell your traffic to a program, YOU as a webmaster choose the program. As long as people keep choosing TB you are endorsing this stuff, and if you are endorsing it...well welcome to democracy fellahs.

All I can say is my topbucks ratios are down from my 1:146 that I'm boasting in my signature... way down as a matter of fact :(

I understand what you are saying, but all they have to do is put it up for a day and see how sales do for their own sites. You don't need beta testers and things like that - granted it isn't that scientific, but if you have been averaging X number of signups each monday - you put it up on a monday and if it falls within that range than you have a ballpark idea. I am sure they can easily see conversions for each of their site in total. Things can't be THAT different from day to day. I do the same thing - put up a new tour - try it for a few days and see what happens. It isn't perfect, but it saves a lot of time and money doing a true scientific test.

I am biased, but I am biased based on good evidence. I get lots of signups from them. They didn't know me from adam. I have other sponsors as well, some have niches TopBucks doesn't, some offer fre trials, and I like some variety. But overall - TopBucks does better for me. I know about what I should be getting. If something doesn't fall in that range - I do something different. Different Layout, Sponsors, Tours, whatever. It takes me no longer than 3 days to see if a sponsor is good for me. If it doesn't work out - I move on and don't worry about it - it could have just been luck, and I might try them again later. Many of those complaining have been using TopBucks for a WHILE. They either don't have enough traffic - and shouldn't be accusing anyone of anything - or do and should have moved on a long time ago.

Lots of people just jump in with opinions and no FACTS. The fact is ANYONE who claims someone is SHAVING (as fact) based on their signups COULD BE sued (I know they never would be). It is unprofessional - NO REAL BUSINESS person would do that. Is it any wonder that they can't get signups?

Also, as I enumerated in the message you quoted - PEOPLE CAN'T READ. The three I listed were the last three posts making SPECIFIC ACCUSATIONS against topbucks.

IN EVERY CASE - The Webmaster WAS CLEARLY WRONG. Even though they were somewhat honest mistakes. When people can't read simple stuff - what do you expect?

They made SPECIFIC accusations and were wrong - so why should ANYONE believe those that make these general accusations that "conversions are decreasing".

I know on at least two occasions (don't remember if it was topbucks or not) that people were bitching up a storn about traffic not being counted WHEN THEY DIDN'T HAVE a referal code in the url. I saw one case on a non adult board where someone was bitching about "XYZ is a cheat - they never paid me, blah, blah, blah." Sponsor mentioned that there records showed the check had been cashed. Person than said something like "Oh yeah, I forgot sorry."


Everyone wants to blame their problems on other people. All I can say is MY CONVERSIONS are steady and MY SALES are half way decent.

Therefore - either TopBucks just loves me or they are doing something wrong - no don't have enough traffic. NO ONE EVER SAYS:

"My conversions seem to be going down - do you have any suggestions as to what I can do?"

Nope - they always blame it on the sponsor. I know you make fun of me for suggesting tour changes, but I changed tours the first time a few months ago - and the difference was immediate. I got about 50% more signups than the pay period before.

Just my :2 cents:

Kush,

I can't say for sure what you might have a problem with, but I think new sites seem to do better RIGHT WHEN THEY come out.

I did extremely well with TrannyHouse and some of their other new sites when they first came out (less than 1:30). I think that might be some of it - as cheerchicks is new, but I don't know - it seems that was to me - after a while - things start to average out (at least for me).

I know this isn't a great analogy, but I used to sell tons of pokemon cards - when I new set came out - sales skyrocketed - and then would settle down after a couple weeks.

What I have learned is any new sites from ARS, TopBucks, CyberErotica, and anyone else you trust - don't wait to see how new sites are doing for other people - just start promoting them right away. Surfers have never seen them before.

It isn't just topbucks I have seen this with, but sites like
IndiaExposed (ARS)
TeenPanties(ARS)
EnticingTeens (CyberErotica)

Just my :2 cents: If your sponsor comes out with a new site - and you like the tour - don't wait for other to show results - you will miss out on the action.

Chris, I agree with you completely on this - new tours/sites convert better because they're NEW and unique - so naturally surfers are more apt to signup for something they've never seen before.

All I'm saying is that I had a sudden, significant drop in sales with TopBucks when all of the variables to my traffic are held virtually constant (granted, stats do vary from day to day) I look for possible explanations to these variations - and one possibly explanation could be that it's a problem on Top Bucks' end. I'm not ragging on them - they're my favorite sponsor at the moment - I'm just hoping my stats pick up to how they were a week or two ago :thumbsup

Chris is a smart cookie.

You guys should take some of his advice and put it to use. Whether its for topbucks or any other program.

Great posts Chris, it gave me some new ideas.

Erik

Dude, ChrisR, I know you from Adam. You know more about this adult game than most of us know about breathing.

Any program that you promote, the way you promote it will do amazing numbers, shaving, skimming or not. You are a big fish, most of us ain't.

For the most part I agree with you.

However, the fact is some companies do some shady shit and hide it from their webmasters (I'd be glad to talk it over with you via icq or some shit, but you probably know what I'm talking about). I know this for a fact. I have worked at/with companies of this type. This is a wild west business.

You know that old saying: fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me?

Webmasters could go a long way towards thinking about that one. If they did they would be plowing traffic to companies that treat their webmasters right like LightSpeed or the bro's at Soulcash instead of taking it on the chin from the monsters of the industry who treat them like shit and promise bullshit $90 a sign up.

Has anyone made a test sign up without checking the box? Someone that makes over $1000 a month in this biz should take the time to make a $5 trial sign up and see what I am referring to!!!

There was no check box after I entered the CC info, and yes there was a check box on the page I entered the CC info. I made sure I clicked on only "Agree on Terms" and made sure not to click on sign up for additional trials. Anyways.. as I wait for the next page to load (hoping to see thank you for signing up)... I don't see that. Instead it says something like..."we would like to show you our appreciation and give you a 5 day free trial in which you will not be charged unless you don't cancel within the 5 day period"... underneath, all I see is a SUBMIT button and nothing else. Now that's what I am talking about here... has anyone tested it out yet? You must go past entering the CC info.

But like I said earlier.. I typed in the sites name directly and not under an affiliate link, so they may handle that traffic differently and thats why I got that forced mandatory signup?

Also the biggest thing about ratios that webmasters never seem to get is that a ratio in a vaccuum, means shite.

In fact at this exact instant I have two different accounts with the same sponsor one is 1:670 and the other is 1:9. Yes, read that agian.

Same gallery style, same traffic, mostly, same brand/type of content similar everything...but two vastly different ratios.

Do all of you folks make your $$$ off of TGP gallery postings? Or do you have a links list site? I'm still trying to get the hang of things......

yeti
:rainfro

My usual Stats
http://www.dirtymofo.com/normalstats.jpg


My stats as of recent
http://www.dirtymofo.com/topbucks%20stats.jpg


My referrer stats in Jan
http://www.dirtymofo.com/referrer%20stats%20jan.jpg


My Referrer Stats in Feb
http://www.dirtymofo.com/referrer%20stats%20feb.jpg

You make your own conclusions....

DH:glugglug

BTW this is a mix of 90% TGP Traffic and 10% links off my various websites.

DH:glugglug

whenever a new sponsor starts to operate (even under a new name) the conversions are awesome... then they go down and that's more usual than the sun-rise. i don't see what's the trouble about...

you should REALLY get used to it and just switch your traffic flow to another location when that happens.

LoveAsianChicks, typo??

you must have meant

"Epoch is THE SHIT as well"

just like Topbucks is THE SHIT!

Topbucks converts... and one of the reasons they have high conversions is because they process with Epoch.

Clay
http://www.epochsystems.com/sales

Epoch,

How long does it take to get a third party processing account ready at your company?

We are looking for some extra processors.










======
Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com
======

Damn so much to cover...

Bikinihouse, in your last comment you're referring to an upsell after the member has already joined the site- that would not affect conversion ratios, as the members join had already gone through. Also, that upsell has another check box if you were interested in the offer and are not forced to take it.

Jimmy3Way, I do know the numbers and I do know that TopBucks is among many other companies who have seen positive results from adding this feature rather then negative ones. I don't care to share the numbers at this time because they are really not for public info...

It just tends to happen that unhappy people post more on threads like this than ones that are satisfied. Topbucks has been very consistent and will continue to be.

http://www.thestatistician.com/03.html

~~Alli

Epoch is THE SHIT. Period.

I'm beta testing Epoch on our site right now with my own traffic. Same traffic, same tour, same everything as before except when the surfer clicks the join link they go to epoch's sign up page instead of ibill's.
Since switching initial joins are up 30%, and the conversions from trial to monthly are up as well.
I don't know what they do differently on the back end over there, but I really like the difference it makes in my bank acct.

The little bit of traffic I throw at topbucks converts pretty well also.:thumbsup