100....... :error

I doubt very much the ACLU will step in on this case.

thank you for having the courage to say what all decent people know is true.

and yes, if you guys have children you will understand the sentiment expressed here.

People with children support the U.S. government torturing real children in the name of "fighting terrorism", but they are against made up stories?

How can someone support fictional murder if they have children?

Child abuse is worse than murder?

Just because you find something offensive does not mean it should be illegal.

If they were involved in actual crimes, send them to jail for a long time. If they are writing stories that most of us find sick, then it's protected by the Constitution.

Going to bed ...

I just hope I wont have that dream of my girlfriend getting fucked by that neighboor's big horny dog ....

All I need is to be busted tomorrow morning ....

I'll cross my fingers for you

God Speed

This seems to be a common problem these days over there - seems I know of one affiliate program that had some untrue stuff published about them over there a while back without checking out the story first - its called a case of catching the "mainstream press" fever of publishing BS to sensationalize and then having to retract later.

child porn is not the product of words. CP is the product of sexually abusing a child. no one here is saying its ok to sexually abuse a child right?

If there isn't more to it, then be very afraid because this is a dangerous thing happening here and many of you are too blind and stupid to realize it.

Agree! :thumbsup Has little to do which freedom of speech or "democracy" - more to do with publishing obscene material at the least and probably far more under the surface.

It also has nada to do with "fantasies", but back to publishing obscene material. It takes a sicko to write the shit and more sickos to read it for their sexual gratification.... or whatever, - fantasies. The issue is obscene material "starring" bestiality and pedo content. Both are illegal (in most countries).

Tell a balanced jury it was just "fantasies" and not obscene content and, hello jailcell.

Prosecutors can be smart... they don't have to claim it is the "most extreme form of obscenity", but simply claim it is on the weakest level of the range. Try defending that when your talking about finger fucking babies in an obscenity trial - not easy!

Thank you! I'm so glad you're all as outraged as I am - and can I say a little worried - I write erotic fiction under another name and this is crazy! Hollywood depicts child porn, underage sex, BDSM all the time. Last week's NCIS showed the victims of a sexual sadist. Is the FBI going to arrest the screenwriter? The studio? The actor who played the guy?

I hope to heck there is more to this story than meets the eye

Cyn

More good points - yes, sex with children is wrong. But I can write and profit greatly writing books and movies about the BTK killer and Charles Manson, and every other serial killer. I can get into their minds like Red Dragon and talk about how much I love the feel of it - the FBI isn't going to give a damn.

Also, I am amazed at how many people who run "teen" sites, cry foul when it comes to underage sex. If you think people come to your sites because they know those girls aren't really 14 - baloney. They come for the fantasy. How is that fantasy any different than words on a page?

Cyn

i'm not sure if that site should be taken down by FBI.. but those contents we're sure off the boundaries.. I hate bestiality..damn

Cynthia, come on. That's baloney.

There is a big big difference from Hollywood movies and TV shows, to a site clearly and solely catering to Pedo's and writing graphic perverted stories about infants, toddlers, and children molestation fantasies.

I'm a huge advocate of free speech, but if we are to define anything as OBSCENE as a society, it would be the kind of content on this site the FBI took down.

Running a web site solely dealing with writing pedo fantasy stories involving new born babies and little kids getting fucked by adults is not adult entertainment, it's sicko,wrong and the majority of any community in the United States would agree.

OK, I tried my best to stay the hell out of this thread but I can't .

Everyone with their hollywood arguments can do themselves a favor and check their tunnel vision at the door.

1. I can NEVER recall hollywood producing anything Television, Movie or otherwise that glorified sex with little kids. Children , Infants, or attempted to put an "erotic" spin on this subject matter.

2. In most cases when hollywood does produce content that covers the subject of underage sex. The only times I can recall both parties were of similar ages and it's typical that these movies have context they may be found in bad taste but I would hope people could see, tell, and or recognize a difference between a tale of high school seniors trying to get laid at prom, and a mother finger fucking her 4 year old sons ass with a rubber glove.

3. as far as last weeks NCIS show, you put it best. they were victims. It wasn't packaged as an erotic story.

And finally, take the FBI out of this equasion. Had this webmaster approched anyone on this board who owns ..........lets say a BLOG perhaps for a traffic trade, and the BLOG owner reviewed this site, would this conversation be going in this direction? I think not.


I'll agree with the sentiment of most. " It's a fine line" but some of us have done such a poor job of setting bounderies that the FBI and DOJ are going to step in and try to do it for us.

For christs sake be fucking responsible.

Only my :2 cents: - folks can have as many fantasies as they want and visit as many "teen sites" and fantasize all day long. The difference is, assuming the "teen sites" are "legal", they are not showing images of underage kids being sexually abused nor do they have stuff about abusing babies.

Only me Cynthia, but there seems to be a very wide void between Hollywood or "real" literature hitting on the subject of "Lolita", - or writing about Manson and others, and content depicting some pervert sticking his dick in a childs face (or finger fucking babies).

It's not about fantasies, - more related to *publishing obscene material* which would more likely than not, be below any standards acceptable to a jury. Last I checked, there is no law against fantasies - least yet! :winkwink:

Stupid argument. Can you say the same for murder? What about illegal drug use? Hollywood "glorifies" illegal activities all of the time. Do you support sending everyone in Hollywood to jail because they glorify illegal activities? :1orglaugh

If people on GFY are against sick porn fantiasies, but support murder fantasies, what does that say about them?

If you don't have a problem with government censorship of speech just because it offends you, then you don't support free speech at all.

writing fantasy stories abould child molestation is wrong, im glad they got shut down.

Thought Police.

Brian Dalton, in 2001 he was arrested and convicted (10 years) of obscenity for writing down his thoughts in a private journal.

http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/croisdale21.html

That is your right ... and you also have the right to say ... and the right not to promote it or view it ....

I personnaly dispize Max Hardcore stuff ( slapping the " bitches", poking them like a piece of meat, make them look like idiots ).

I hate the stuff this site promoted, even if only stories. I don't like the people going there to be turned on ....

I don't like DS sites, girls chocking on cocks, vomitting on cocks, treated as crack whores ( even if they probably are ). I think you guys are fucking sickos to enjoy that stuff ...

I don;t like seing guys sucking each other's cocks ... shoving telephones up their ass ...

But I am not obliged to watch anything of that stuff and neither are you ... NOBODY IS !!!!
And if you do view this content in the privacy of your home, in no way you are depriving me of my liberty, dignity or morality....

If everything that is wrong, distastefull, morally objectionnable becomes illegal, then THE STUFF YOU LIKE OR PROMOTE IS NEXT !
:2 cents:


PS: Beastiality fantasies are very common with both men and women. The key word is FANTASIES...

The difference is... Hollywood was not "raided" with a warrant under possible obscenity charge. Rosie was. The reason she was, at least initially, is that she allegedly published obscene material depicting incest, bestiality and pedo related content. What else is there to say??

The FBI are kinda irrelevant in this and I'd bet $1000 that there is far more reason than a possible obscenity charge. Till will tell on that...

One pervert who crept into GFY was involved in the same shit, - "possibly" innocent-looking on the surface, - but sure as hell was not. His "connection" spread over.. think five countries and involved everything from pedo imaging to associations with others who were being monitored in connection with missing children and suspected murdered kids.

99.9% of the time - there is more than a one-sided webmistress sob story about how she thought she would never get busted for "words" and spewing the usual "freedoms" and "democracy" crap in defense.

One Producer is not promoting this as a positive or good thing the other is not.

And the lame attempt to bundle all things illegal into a neat little package is not what OUR ( the adult industry) issue is. No one here said they supported Murder or drug fantasies. Many are saying they DON'T support fantasies involving SMALL CHILDREN.

We can have the discussion on Murder Fantasy when you set up your Snuff site and the FBI knocks on your door.



Do you find glorifing forced sex on an infant to be Obscene ( by definition)? In the end that is the question.

This is not about any industry, this is about free speech and the constitution. Read the first amendment and tell me where it makes a distinction between murder fantasies and porn fantasies.

When made up writing becomes illegal because it offends you, then there is no right to free speech for anyone.

If you think murder fantasies are ok, then why are you so against sick porn fantasies? Do people support murder because they think it's ok for murder to be in movies?

You want things that offend you made illegal - that view is the same as a right winger wanting all porn made illegal because it offends them.

you have no idea what its about because you dont know the charges. sorry... preach on... but dont make it something its not, until you actually know what it is.

What the fuck?

You defend the right of murder?

If you like movies or novels with murder in them, you must support murder, right?

:1orglaugh

That is scary. Very scary. What happened to the first ammendment?

The problem is taking regular porn fantasies into reality is a lot different then when even one of the pedo's decides to take his sicko fantasies to reality with a real infant, toddler or child.

That's the difference. And a lot of these pedo guys do start molesting real kids.

So this argument doesn't wash with me.

While I think it would be GREAT to rid the internet of this kind of pedo trash, I worry its just the first step in 'explicit content' censorship.

They start with the stuff everyone agrees they dont like - Next thing you know, theyre busting people for legit 18+ stuff, and using things like this to get the public to shutup about censorship in general.

...and the media will tie it all together "FBI shut down sites featured extreme hardcore content, and child sex stories". Extreme hardcore content = gangbangs, max hardcore, etc.

Watch.

My post that you replied to is an argument about free speech, not about this case.

Read my previous posts. I suggested that Xbiz remove the article until they know the facts. It is likely that there is more to this story.

However, it's sad how many GFY members are against free speech if the content of the speech offends them personally.

Yet you support murder in movies, even though it might encourage someone to murder in real life?

:1orglaugh

No, I just don't want to have a country where its legal to run a web site and publish obscene material involving infants, toddlers and little children getting fantasy fucked.

I'll defend free speech, but there is a limit and if you believe there isn't than you need to study case law on the subject and recgonize free speech has certain restrictions attached to it that do not impede on the constitution's overall protection of those rights.

would you please answer my one simple question?



Do you find glorifing forced sex on an infant to be Obscene ( by definition)?



This isn't any issue about my being offended. the issue is was the content obscene.

It's either Obscene or it is not. This isn't about hollywood, or murder and drun fantasies. Do you find glorifing forced sex on an infant to be Obscene ( by definition)?

Mr F... the FBI did not "raid" Rosie because she was purveying "fantasies". Fantasies are still not illegal. Initially they raided her on the basis of *obscene publications* which is a valid offense.

Tho... bet more than :2 cents: that what they wanted was more related to accessing her computer hard drives than obscene publications. Whether they proceed with any obscenity case is another matter.

WTF???

Mr. Fiction, it goes way beyond just people on GFY being offended. I bet 99% of the general public if surveyed would be offended by the content on that site.

xbiz are idiots for the shit they publish. its a joke. i agree with you completely. one side of the story is not a story. thats just simple journalism.

Let's look at this argument from a simple perspective.

If publishing content that describes perverted graphic sex with infants, toddlers and little kids isn't obscene, then what the fuck is obscene?

I can't think of anything more deserving of saying Yes that is obscene than what this site was doing.

make up your mind what term you want to stick to.... "Child Porn" or "obscene" sometimes you come off as being extremely bright and well spoken... other times you act as if you are completely high on coke or something and you are just babbling and almost incoherent.

This issue has plenty to do with Hollywood movies, novels, and any other material with murder fantasies. It has to do with the right to free speech for anyone who is publishing offensive material of any kind.

Post a link to the definition of obscenity in the U.S. constitution.

I believe in people's right to free speech, even when it offends me personally.

If you don't, then how are you any better than the religious people who would ban all porn?

Yep! It is that simple and has nothing to do with "free speech", "fantasies" or ramblings about Hollywood. It's about pedo/incest/bestiality *obscenity* - nuff said!

The definition of obscentity is indeed in the eyes of the reader. Under US law it is the eyes of a jury.

If there was child pornography on the computers there will be no sympathy from me; it is illegal and immoral. If they were just running a Literotica type of site then there is a problem for everyone who does value free speech. My judgement is witheld until all the facts are in.

Each of us will draw a different line in the sand as to what we believe is obscene, the law in the US is at that same level, pornography is legal unless it is obscene. All of us in this industry would sleep better at night knowing whether we are safe or over the line; if only we knew what that line was.

You are wrong.

Pedos are pedos from day one ... This is a " disease, sickness", not something that popups one morning:
" Wow, whAt a nice day... I think I will go at the school yard and rape a few boys " .....

Boy abusing priests didn't become like that because of reading stories ( well, maybe the bible). They went in the priesthood because it served their goals.

You can make me read all those stories all day. I will be disgusted, will probably beat the shit out of you, but I will not run to abuse a girl or boy ....


But, if you are right, then we should close:

- gay sites: people seing them will become gay, a sin.
- DS sites: viewers will go choke their victims on their vomit
- Max Hardcore: viewers will drown victims in piss

and the chocking sites, teens dressed as " little girls "...

The day you go thru the system, maybe you will understand ...

So is this the polite way to say you would prefer not to answer the question?


This goes way beyond offensive. Hell, I find your posts in this thread offensive but not obscene.

I also support a persons right to free speech, even when it offends me. But there is a difference between offensive and obscene.

And I for one totally support your rights to not find glorifing forced sex on an infant to be Obscene. But I will not agree with you.

The definition is always elusive and often unknown until a verdict day :winkwink: It's much the same in countries other than the US.

One classic case was the prosecutor who asked the jury "Would you allow your manservant to read this book?" :1orglaugh (Penguin Books re Lady Chatterley's Lover)

Regardless, it's not easy presenting a defence for pedo/incest shit and tho, least as far as is known, may be "just words" - they can be the killer in any defense. Tell a jury about finger-fucking babies and the judge will order some sick bags to let them throw up.

So free speech should be limited by what the majority of the general public finds offensive?
I bet 95% of the gerneral public would be offended by Max Harcore content.
I bet 80% of the gerneral public would be offended by any gay adult site.
...
...

Majority rules. That's how the game of life works.

Absolutely, I'm not disagreeing with you here - but that's not what the original article stated - this discussion has strayed from what was presented as facts (be it true or not) that it was a wide variety of stories including "threesomes" that were involved in this situation.

If, indeed, it was nothing but a front for a kiddie porn site, yes - stories involving babies are sick. My question is where does it stop? IF it's true that a wide range of stories were at fault and not just that kind.

Cyn

Have you ever read Helter Skelter? In my opinion that is obscene. But it falls under the blanket of literary. What about Anne Rice's Beauty series about a woman who is held against her will and forced into sexual acts. This was published by a major publishing house. I know, I know, it's not someone sticking their finger in a two year old - I got that - but we need to widen our vision here. This discussion is about who decides what is obscene and what isn't it. Last I heard, even the Supreme Court had trouble on that count.

Cyn

Search the site on Google. Its as low as it goes in terms of CP. Stories about having sex with newborn infants??? Come on, anyone who justifies that under free speech is simply being absurd.

Like i've said before, existing spam filters will one day control the internet & block all obscenity in the form of text.

And i bet 20% of the ones who answered that poll secretly watched his films