After reviewing the posts here, I'm with the DOJ and FBI on this one. I am surprised anyone would support stories that are clearly over the obscenity line.

What's the difference between writing about CP and images of CP? They are both digital files about CP and both provide visual and sexual stimulation. Words create images even though they are not images themselves. The end result is the same effect. And that is what needs to be considered by the courts.

Its the same thing as if you start saying threats about the president. The secret service would arrest you just for saying the words even if you don't follow through.

Its the same thing as if you were a terrorist with an assembled bomb ready to go and just a bunch of bomb parts and ingredients on a work bench. The Feds would arrest you in either case.

Its the same thing as if you were just writing plans for a conspiracy to kill someone and then you had someone else do the killing. You are still getting nailed for murder either way.

So I don't think words should be protected if they involve pornographic descriptions of sex with minors and especially if they are being sold on a commercial web site.

Obviously this site caters to pedos. Obviously there is more to the site than just stories since members were apparently able to trade image files and you can bet they aren't pictures of generally acceptable pornography.

I'd venture to guess many who say this cp stuff should be protected don't have their own children yet. If you did, you wouldn't be backing this sick shit up one bit. There IS a line out there. It may be murky at times. But as they've said in many cases, "You can't describe precisely with words, but you know it when you see it."

Agree KRL! :thumbsup

Even if there are no "words" - you can smell the stench at 100 paces. Being born yesterday is nada excuse.

the Miller test defines it.

Currently the U.S. Supreme court uses the "Miller test" to determine if
material is legally "obscene" and therefore NOT subject to First Amendment
protection. Interesting and insightful information on this test is available
at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test

Yep I agree with you 100% It may be morally wrong to write about sex with kids, horses and what ever else they did.. However censorship of words is the downfall of a democracy.. well that is if we really were a democracy.

I agree 100% with that.

This doesn't seem like a freedom of speach issue in retrospect :pimp

X-Biz should retract that story until they have more information.

Do you also think it should be illegal to write stories and make movies that have murder and drug use in them?

How about making anything illegal in real life illegal in stories and movies?

You are living in a country where the government defends and uses torture on real children, but you want fictional stories to be illegal?

:1orglaugh

there's a BIG difference between a picture of a girl holding a lolipop and a descriptive story about some old guy forceably fucking the shit out of an 8 year old with a lolipop.

Hey man can you at least give us a little hint of what's going on, was it a paysite network.. free sites network?

There are a lot of us in the biz that could be targets, of this BS. You don't have to name names or give specifics, but this shit affects a lot of people here. We really need to know as much as possible about what's going on, so we can protect ourselves as well as possible.

Sorry Mr F. but I'm looking at this case's facts and then judging those facts based on generally acceptable levels of community standards.

Publishing pedo fantasy stories about 6 month old babies getting finger fucked is OBSCENE, is over the line, and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I have no sympathy for this site. It should not be protected as free spreech. The entire premise is to cater to the fantasies of pedos at the most debased and perverted levels imaginable. When you are writing sexually perverse stories describing pornographic acts on infants, toddlers, and children you are generating the same effeect as if you were publishing pictures of such.

As I stated above. There is no difference between words and images. Words create images in your mind. Images are described by words in your mind. The end result of both is that they create visual sexual stimulation in the mind.

I may disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

pedo's make it pretty hard to fight to keep this right, because fighting for it makes us look bad as a whole, even though it sickens us too.. but isnt that exactly what the government wants?

There is one important difference, images of obscene behaviour are (typically) proof that it actually happened, while a mere text description is typically a product of fantasy.

However disagreeable you, me or anyone else may find it, it is only a work of fiction.

Government should be able to discern fantasy from reality. Most every other adult is capable of doing so.

So then how in your mind can movies that glorify murder not be obscene? I agree with you that stories like that are pretty freaking sick. I will also say if there are other things going on behind the scenes then it's a whole different matter.

However I don't think text alone no matter how bad it is should be censored and considered obscene. When you start banning words it's brings us ever so closer to the end of freedom of speech.

So let's say I wrote a book about becoming a suicide bomber should that mean I should be prosecuted as a terrorist, simply because it might stimulate the mind of someone that is already of that thinking?

Then you support making movies that have murder in them illegal?

Should rape in movies be illegal? What about the movie Taxi Driver?

Supporting free speech means defending speech that you find offensive. Anyone can support free speech for things they agree with.

there is no difference betweeen a story and an image? are you fucking kidding me? there is a big difference between raping a child and photographing the event to share with others and writing about raping a child.

words aren't the products of victems

Dont it just burn you balls sick people like this are protected by the same Amendments as you,i and everyone else. Yeap like it or not hate it or not thats what are great country is about.

People like you piss me off you cry free speech free speech but when another group of people who are protected under the same laws as you do something that aint to community standards people say throw them to the dogs. Is it sick writeing those storys yes, do i like them no but they are protected under the same laws as NORMAL people sadly to say.

I am not knockin you dude. I see you post and you seem like a bright guy. Just surpised by your posting

Bush will start putting people in camps soon, then they will gas us. It is a sad day when words are censored. Bin laden has won!

I highly recommend everyone read The Handmaiden's Tale by Magret Atwood - a story of a fundamentalist fascist state in America. More amazing is that she wrote it 20 years ago. The book was made into a movie of the same name starring Robert Duval.

If the ACLU doesn't come to their defense, then we will all know there was much more nefarious goings on going on...

People defending the rights of CP???

WTF??????????????

If you surveyed the American public, I'm sure at least 95% would say the FBI was right to shut down this site.

100....... :error

I doubt very much the ACLU will step in on this case.

thank you for having the courage to say what all decent people know is true.

and yes, if you guys have children you will understand the sentiment expressed here.

People with children support the U.S. government torturing real children in the name of "fighting terrorism", but they are against made up stories?

How can someone support fictional murder if they have children?

Child abuse is worse than murder?

Just because you find something offensive does not mean it should be illegal.

If they were involved in actual crimes, send them to jail for a long time. If they are writing stories that most of us find sick, then it's protected by the Constitution.

Going to bed ...

I just hope I wont have that dream of my girlfriend getting fucked by that neighboor's big horny dog ....

All I need is to be busted tomorrow morning ....

I'll cross my fingers for you

God Speed

This seems to be a common problem these days over there - seems I know of one affiliate program that had some untrue stuff published about them over there a while back without checking out the story first - its called a case of catching the "mainstream press" fever of publishing BS to sensationalize and then having to retract later.

child porn is not the product of words. CP is the product of sexually abusing a child. no one here is saying its ok to sexually abuse a child right?

If there isn't more to it, then be very afraid because this is a dangerous thing happening here and many of you are too blind and stupid to realize it.

Agree! :thumbsup Has little to do which freedom of speech or "democracy" - more to do with publishing obscene material at the least and probably far more under the surface.

It also has nada to do with "fantasies", but back to publishing obscene material. It takes a sicko to write the shit and more sickos to read it for their sexual gratification.... or whatever, - fantasies. The issue is obscene material "starring" bestiality and pedo content. Both are illegal (in most countries).

Tell a balanced jury it was just "fantasies" and not obscene content and, hello jailcell.

Prosecutors can be smart... they don't have to claim it is the "most extreme form of obscenity", but simply claim it is on the weakest level of the range. Try defending that when your talking about finger fucking babies in an obscenity trial - not easy!

Thank you! I'm so glad you're all as outraged as I am - and can I say a little worried - I write erotic fiction under another name and this is crazy! Hollywood depicts child porn, underage sex, BDSM all the time. Last week's NCIS showed the victims of a sexual sadist. Is the FBI going to arrest the screenwriter? The studio? The actor who played the guy?

I hope to heck there is more to this story than meets the eye

Cyn

More good points - yes, sex with children is wrong. But I can write and profit greatly writing books and movies about the BTK killer and Charles Manson, and every other serial killer. I can get into their minds like Red Dragon and talk about how much I love the feel of it - the FBI isn't going to give a damn.

Also, I am amazed at how many people who run "teen" sites, cry foul when it comes to underage sex. If you think people come to your sites because they know those girls aren't really 14 - baloney. They come for the fantasy. How is that fantasy any different than words on a page?

Cyn

i'm not sure if that site should be taken down by FBI.. but those contents we're sure off the boundaries.. I hate bestiality..damn

Cynthia, come on. That's baloney.

There is a big big difference from Hollywood movies and TV shows, to a site clearly and solely catering to Pedo's and writing graphic perverted stories about infants, toddlers, and children molestation fantasies.

I'm a huge advocate of free speech, but if we are to define anything as OBSCENE as a society, it would be the kind of content on this site the FBI took down.

Running a web site solely dealing with writing pedo fantasy stories involving new born babies and little kids getting fucked by adults is not adult entertainment, it's sicko,wrong and the majority of any community in the United States would agree.

OK, I tried my best to stay the hell out of this thread but I can't .

Everyone with their hollywood arguments can do themselves a favor and check their tunnel vision at the door.

1. I can NEVER recall hollywood producing anything Television, Movie or otherwise that glorified sex with little kids. Children , Infants, or attempted to put an "erotic" spin on this subject matter.

2. In most cases when hollywood does produce content that covers the subject of underage sex. The only times I can recall both parties were of similar ages and it's typical that these movies have context they may be found in bad taste but I would hope people could see, tell, and or recognize a difference between a tale of high school seniors trying to get laid at prom, and a mother finger fucking her 4 year old sons ass with a rubber glove.

3. as far as last weeks NCIS show, you put it best. they were victims. It wasn't packaged as an erotic story.

And finally, take the FBI out of this equasion. Had this webmaster approched anyone on this board who owns ..........lets say a BLOG perhaps for a traffic trade, and the BLOG owner reviewed this site, would this conversation be going in this direction? I think not.


I'll agree with the sentiment of most. " It's a fine line" but some of us have done such a poor job of setting bounderies that the FBI and DOJ are going to step in and try to do it for us.

For christs sake be fucking responsible.

Only my :2 cents: - folks can have as many fantasies as they want and visit as many "teen sites" and fantasize all day long. The difference is, assuming the "teen sites" are "legal", they are not showing images of underage kids being sexually abused nor do they have stuff about abusing babies.

Only me Cynthia, but there seems to be a very wide void between Hollywood or "real" literature hitting on the subject of "Lolita", - or writing about Manson and others, and content depicting some pervert sticking his dick in a childs face (or finger fucking babies).

It's not about fantasies, - more related to *publishing obscene material* which would more likely than not, be below any standards acceptable to a jury. Last I checked, there is no law against fantasies - least yet! :winkwink:

Stupid argument. Can you say the same for murder? What about illegal drug use? Hollywood "glorifies" illegal activities all of the time. Do you support sending everyone in Hollywood to jail because they glorify illegal activities? :1orglaugh

If people on GFY are against sick porn fantiasies, but support murder fantasies, what does that say about them?

If you don't have a problem with government censorship of speech just because it offends you, then you don't support free speech at all.

writing fantasy stories abould child molestation is wrong, im glad they got shut down.

Thought Police.

Brian Dalton, in 2001 he was arrested and convicted (10 years) of obscenity for writing down his thoughts in a private journal.

http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/croisdale21.html

That is your right ... and you also have the right to say ... and the right not to promote it or view it ....

I personnaly dispize Max Hardcore stuff ( slapping the " bitches", poking them like a piece of meat, make them look like idiots ).

I hate the stuff this site promoted, even if only stories. I don't like the people going there to be turned on ....

I don't like DS sites, girls chocking on cocks, vomitting on cocks, treated as crack whores ( even if they probably are ). I think you guys are fucking sickos to enjoy that stuff ...

I don;t like seing guys sucking each other's cocks ... shoving telephones up their ass ...

But I am not obliged to watch anything of that stuff and neither are you ... NOBODY IS !!!!
And if you do view this content in the privacy of your home, in no way you are depriving me of my liberty, dignity or morality....

If everything that is wrong, distastefull, morally objectionnable becomes illegal, then THE STUFF YOU LIKE OR PROMOTE IS NEXT !
:2 cents:


PS: Beastiality fantasies are very common with both men and women. The key word is FANTASIES...