You have as much sense as a pickle. Comparing porn to NBC is like comparing Ford to Hot Wheels. Would you pay $10 for one episode or porn on TV because people do it daily.

$30 is fine and no I doubt signups went up any significant number at $10. Retention is better most likely but you the average rebill to be over 3 times as long just to come out to even.

Raising prices, lowering prices, it doesn't really matter. You can pour sugar on shit, but its still shit. Surfers are smarter than ever now. The oldschool tricks just don't work anymore.

A quality site will sell and retain. Attention to details, treating your surfers, members, models, employees, and affiliates with respect, and under-promising and over-delivering are the best way to make money in the sologirl market. Period.

Melissa Midwest is hot!

A pickle huh? Interesting choice. I am well aware of the market differences between mainstream entertainment and adult entertainment. I believe I have repeatedly said in this thread the reason the industry can currently get away with charging $40 a month is because iof the "sex" label. But as in all industries the price structure will come down. Its the nature of competition and common sense. Put thousands of webmasters together all trying to get an edge and you will end up with lower prices and increased content. Just because its sex doesnt mean it doesnt have the same business principles as all other industries.

:thumbsup

I know huhhhhhh!???


:thumbsup


PS: Right on to what Steve said...sugar on shit is still shit...love that...


:thumbsup

Hi Shap,


2005 was a sologirl craziness year, no doubt. Why? For the simple reason webmasters got the impression they can get a girl willing to do some nude shoots for few bucks, become sponsors themselves and cash big time on her.

So far so good, but they missed the most important. Adult entertainment industry doesn't work like this anymore. A paysite is a serious investment and weak attempts collapse before even starting.

We differentiate ourselves by geting only the best looking models dedicated to really put hard work on their sites which translates among others to DAILY live cam sessions. We shoot all our content in HDV and on various indoor and outdoor places. We update not 1, not 2, but 3 times per week, every week.

Competition is hard and this has been only the beginning.

Interresting. While I understand your point this is not universally true. Actually often the opposite is true.

Healthcare: costs have steadily risen over the years and show no signs of reversing. These increases come at a time when there are more hospitals and services available than ever before.

Cable / Sattelite TV: While I wouldn't pay $34.00 a month for ESPN ( well maybe I would) the costs for cable have risen since deregulation. Every time I increase the content of my TV service (i.e. increase channels) the price goes up

Entertainment Industry: Weather it's the theater, concerts or the movies ticket prices have increased even though there are more venues and events than ever before.

Great thread... :thumbsup I'm new to the business, started in 2004. When I first started out honestly I didn't know what the hell I was doing and still don't :) I'm always learning though. In time I hooked up with an experienced webmaster which really made a difference. My first site was a multi site than I opened a solo site. My program and sites have done very well considering my short time in this business. I think part of the success is the work I put into finding fresh faces. Most of the girls I shoot are completely new and not over exposed. We also work very hard with design and promotion. Always giving 24/7 member and affiliate support. Competition is hard and I think whether it's a solo or multi site you are promoting having a strong work ethic is a hugh factor in the success or failure of a site.. and a hot exclusive girl doesn't hurt either :winkwink:

Pacino

"under-promising and over-delivering are the best way to make money in the sologirl market. Period."
This quote from lightspeed is so true :thumbsup

too much discussion

Great post Soul :thumbsup

Interesting discussion.

I've never been able to make money promoting a solo girl site, so based on that I never really thought about starting one.
I have talked to some people on the photography end of the biz who tell me that for a "good" solo girl site you're going to pay substantially more per photoset and video than you would otherwise, because you're trying to get some degree of exclusivity.

The problem really is people are always trying to do things on the cheap.
They find a stoned stripper that they thought was hot as hell when they got a lapdance, promise her she'll make a million bucks and pull out a cheap camera and shoot 20 sets and call that a paysite.
Compare that the the quality of photography you see on lightspeed sites. (Not to mention the quality of the girls)

People also forget that content may be king, but traffic rules.
With enough traffic you can make money with almost any type of content. However, your girl may be the greatest thing since sliced bread but if you don't have traffic you don't have shit.

I think the reason some of the big companies (Silvercash for example) are getting into the solo girl market is because their affiliates are asking them to. As long as they have the traffic base to support the sites then they're worth the investment.

it will be a cold day in hell when there aren't any men out there willing to spend 30 bucks to see sexy movies and photos and interact with an 18 year old still in high school like this one who they will have never seen anywhere before.

Girl Next Door - as enduring an American icon as exists throughout the world - Mickey Mouse, Coca Cola, rock n' roll, Girl Next Door - be it mainstream entertainment or adult entertainment.

http://www.darklifeimages.com/gnd/chrys_1.jpg

http://www.darklifeimages.com/gnd/chrys_9.jpg

http://www.darklifeimages.com/gnd/chrys_10.jpg

and solo girl sites can convert as well as multi model sites like Twistys and ATK and Karups with their vast amounts of exclusive content - on the right traffic of course.

I also wanted to add this regarding the content/traffic thing.

Too many newbs think that if they can find a hot girl and shoot some hot pics they'll get tons of traffic from affiliates the way Lightspeed does.
They are of course in for a rude awakening once the site opens, and they're really no different from the bazillion people who have opened partnership programs with a few CD's worth of content over the years and then wondered why nobody would send them traffic.

What it all boils down to is that we're in the traffic business, everything else is just details. If you have the traffic you have a business, if you don't then you better have the cash to buy it from somebody who does.

I love threads like this... extended business conversation with tons of insight

Too bad they are so rare

:thumbsup

damn, yeah i dont come to gfy all that much or if i do its more to read a bit and not post, too much bs too often, but this is by far the best discussion thread ive read in ages. It's good to see the insights by some of those that are successful and others that just like to talk.

someone said it, or probably many, that this is the traffic business. you could be a small program with the hottest girl this side of everywhere, who interacts constantly on the site, works hard etc etc but without the affiliates and the traffic your going to get only a few sales a day, and when translated into the actual time it takes to produce the content, design, run the site etc etc your not making much. marketing marketing marketing!

You can test them out here.........


1: The one that girl could have made herself ... will look like something made on geocities in 1998

2 : The normal generic site

3 : A very flashy glamorous website with shots ... it will literally look like a music video. Maybe even some green screne scenes for the trailers.

V-rocks hit it dead on from an affiliate point of view. The drop dead tease sites convert. Then the surfer sees her tits or pussy or whatever he did not see on the tour and he is done.
Lightspeed retains. If you are pushing revshare what else do you care about? TeenRevenue sucked shit out of the gate. They did not retain at all. Now they followed lightspeed a bit in their structure and now they retain too.
I can not tell if a girl is hot enough to convert. You have to send traffic and see. But a smokin hot girl is not enough to retain.

Yep they were pretty much failures.

The single model site business is very tough. Part of the problem is that by its very nature, single model sites have a finite timeline. I'm not just talking about models getting older, but other elements that always seem to happen when a model is involved in a site that is solely about her. As time passes difficulties seem to always occur regarding fairness of compensation, involvement in the site, willingness to shoot etc. I know there are examples where the model herself runs the site/program but those sites are not very common.

It's almost catch-22, you make the model exclusive and the contract with her ends up being described by her as "indentured servitude". Those who have actually run single model sites for a while will know what I am talking about. You decide to run the model non exclusive and just shoot years of content on the front end and then you have a hard time selling the site because the gal shoots with everyone else.

I like the single model business, its just not something I would push all my chips to the middle over. Anyone who manages a group of models exclusive and manages to keep them all happy gets my respect as this is very difficult.

bumpity bump... ;)

My take on this is simple. A lot of the budgets I've been offered to shoot solo girl sites are worth us bothering with.

100 set + 8 hours of video for $20,000 is the price one guy quotes. He then boasts about shooting this on a schedule that would kill him or a model, creatively. So is he just churning it out or creating something with texture, depth and appeal?

What suffers for most of these sites is the budget for the content.

Girls get tired and bored sitting naked with their legs open all day, there are only so many time she can fake an orgasm on camera and make it mean something.

Then there is the photographer.

Shooting all day long at a pace that leaves you breathless means your creative juices dry up after 3-5 hours. Then it's auto pilot and you have the prospect of doing it all again tomorrow and for the next week.

Then we have problems with locations, props and clothing, exactly how many times can you shoot the same girl in the same location and keep it interesting?

Now you have the problem of actually finding a model who will be a cut above the rest. Most girls in this business do it for the money and only the money. They get little fun out of it, no pleasure and the work is "Soul Less". Multiply that by the fact that she only pretty, the shooter's tired and probably not on the top of his profession and you end up with "FILLER CONTENT"

So why do sites do it?

Try opening any other site with $20,000 and there is your answer.

As for the formula of 4-5 sales a day cutting it, that's a joke.

4-5 sales, less processing is $114 a day. Assuming you are giving affiliates something lets say you have $60 a day. $1,800 a month. Less hosting of $400 leaves $1,400 a month.

Sorry I pressed the submit button.

$1,400 a month, $16,800 a year.

Where's the profit after you spent $20,000 on content alone.

But today there is little options, because few other sites will get off the ground with only $20,000 of content.

There's another thing I forgot to mention. The quality of models. Good looking girls like Tawnee and Jordan are in demand everywhere. If they are based anywhere with a soft porn business they can easily make $1,000 a week, some weeks more and some weeks less.

Keeping these girls exclusive costs money. We are shooting a girl who did not think twice to turn down an offer of $35,000 to go exclusive for a year. so the stable of girls available is cut down.

Don't know about US law but in the UK if you sign someone up for an exclusive contract and it's proved the person could of earned more non exclusive the contract is invalid.

But that does not matter if you're trying to sue a girl for breaking a contract when she does not have any money.

I always love reading your posts David :winkwink:

It's about balance. If you have a great site, you only have to get an affiliate to try you once. He sees how well it works and he sticks to it, like Steve LS's sites.

Put up a site that is poor and you have to keep pushing people to promote, you're sailing across a choppy sea in a leaking boat.

Balance with the emphasis on content and you don't have the leaks.

Now the problem is do you have the skills and resources to find the right girl, get her shot well and put up a great site? Like LS.

Or do you only have the skills and resources to put up an "all right" site and throw affiliates at it? Like 100 others.

DON'T BE SILLY.

YOU CAN PUT UP ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET AND THROW TRAFFIC AT IT AND MAKE BILLIONS. :1orglaugh

Until the affiliates see the checks they don't get.

"You decide to run the model non exclusive and just shoot years of content on the front end and then you have a hard time selling the site because the gal shoots with everyone else."

I do not agree with this. I think it is important that the girl continue to perform at as many venues as possible and it will result in her site IF!!! it is good and thus will attract fans/subscribers.
Why do you think the Print Publications are sucking up internet girls right now and putting them in the pages?

I was speaking in terms of a program that has existing architecture to market a site. Obviously, if you have problems getting traffic to a site, exposure elsewhere has its benefits.

When you do have the means to put a product out there and get traffic to it, having the model also being marketed by 5 or 10 other large programs makes you uncomfortable as you pay out the start up costs for a site.

Magazines are buying web girls for layouts in their titles because so many of the great new discoveries these days are being sourced by web entities and not by photographers that submit for print exclusively. Nowadays, a photog that submits to print exclusively is a rare thing and most have an internet presence in either site development or content sales.

I'm bookmarking this thread for later. I really don't have time to read it all right now and post a reply, but I liked the first post a lot Shap, and I look foward to reading the replies.

The problem is the new guys to shooting are starting on the Net and some not developing the skills to sell to magazines. Then the new guys being strapped for cash and waiting 3 to 9 months makes life tougher.

Add to this the old guys retiring and you have a shortage of new girsl being found by us.

but don't worry Eva shot two film sets for you today. :1orglaugh

tASSy re naughty allie and vanilla deville. We find one of these kind of girls once a year and that's why they're so easy to sell. But she will also be in big demand from others and will be expensive and there's the problem.

I almost went into a partnership with a friend of mine for a solo-girl site. Did a lot of work to get it going and then I had to stop. She told me that she was starting to feel uncomfortable around my friend. Like he was becoming obcessed with her. I invited him out for a beer, got him wasted and then asked him about it in a round-a-bout way. He spilled the beans and I decided he was going to fuck the website over by scaring her away before the launch.

So I am still just an affiliate.

Yep. It's sad. Unfortunately I believe the majority of photographers are in the industry for the exact same reason :disgust

Exactly, theres one for everyone. Most programs have solosites with a brunette, freckles, redhead, slim, big boobs, cupcakes, you can choice and with the proper redirection of traffic theyre small goldmines.

I did pretty well with a solo girl site about 2 years ago - girl was good at promo - worked her tail off... until she got a new boyfriend.... then everything went to hell!!!

only a select group of these sologirl sites will do well, the rest are fillers.

thats with solo you gotta shoot in advance, bf, holidays, periods, bad hair days... you gotta have stock content