He had warnings, memos. He was on vacation ( don't forget , he is the "vacation" president ) and did nothing.

Spin it till it dies ... it still is HIS watch :2 cents:

I'm not trying to spin anything. I just think it's ridiculous to say "only happened because Bush was President" or "would never have happened on Clinton's watch". Those are absurd statements that nobody can back up with fact.

Dammit - nice to be pre-warned and even get a memo!! :1orglaugh

Sheesh... so damned sad!!

"Bin-Laden determined to attack in the United States" is a little different than a blueprint for an attack with and dates, times and flight numbers. Everybody at every level of the Goverment charged with security dropped the ball. Sure the buck stops at the top, but do you honestly believe the goverment is micro managed by the executive office? If only Bush weren't on vacation, the file with the plans would have been available and thus the plan foiled?

Seems odd that the 9/11 comission would release such a lengthy report when it appears as if they could simple have published "Bush's fault.". I guess that's what people get for having in depth hearings and not just checking GFY first.

We wouldn't know because they don't have to tell us.

So bin Laden should have intimated a date and time to make the whole scenario concrete before thinking of taking any action??

Agree.. it was a total balls up on the security side. Even more amazing it the thought of the volumes of actual money spent by US taxpayers to have this pathetic standard in intelligence.

Tho got little doubts that what is publically known from sounds bites about the intelligence report, - there was a lot more yet not public, and chances are, that it never be publically known for the embarassment factor.

Na.. Doubt Bush's vacation arrangements contributed to 9/11 - his naivity and probable ineptness most likely helped more.

Ya gotta remember, this is a guy with very little experience and a track record prior to taking office where he sure don't get 10 stars. He is also a guy with a personal problem he's working on - not the best individual to have a balanced judgement. He is also a guy who promises a lot, like many politicians, - and from the day of taking office closed all doors and became a "secret". It's not hard to see the reason why when you listen to him talk. George is George and very unlikely he'll ever change. Meanwhile, he is the President, for better or worse, but even now, sure doing one foul job of it - but ya can't expect anything much better. That's why experience and a track record matter - not who's son you are.

Completely agree. I think it points more to a failure of the general political process in the United States. The fact that GW could win a second term after making so many mistakes speaks volumes about the two party system American's enjoy.

The fact of the matter is, by the time you get to the highest levels of most goverments you're so owing to special interest groups and the "friends" that got you there that you really have very little of yourself left to give back. The degree to which you can cover this up becomes your approval rating.

I was referring to US citizens. There was an admission of 63 being held a long while back and "indications" of more since that time - but who knows. It's a subject that is avoided and rarely a straight answer when questioned on this.

Dunno about Padilla.. thought he was a US citizen? May not be.

Lihop Mihop

The sad bit about that is it sure is not in the interests of the US people when the electorate is provided with "the men" to choose from irrespective of their personal abilities, and a financial powerhouse funds them into office.

The highlighting of the two-party system is also divisive, especially during the last election - again, not in the interests of the US as a whole.

There are plenty guys who have been Presidents and never had astounding qualities, but the world has moved on since then and anyone in that job needs some awesome capability within themselves to even consider it.

There is a lot of maturing to do :)

50 spiked stories
The NYT spiked this story for over a year and before the election, I think that speaks volumes in itself. What else are they hiding?

Yes, 9/11 is what I'm talking about, and it happened because Bush put terrorism and particularly Al-Quaeda much lower on the priority list than Clinton did. There were plenty of warnings about what was going to happen, and blockhead Bush and his cronies were far more concerned with how they were going to loot the treasury and roll back the New Deal than they were with national security. He dropped the ball and we got 9/11 as a result. Never would have happened under Clinton, because Clinton was competent and intelligent, unlike Bush, who is an incompetent rich boy who never earned anything he got in his entire life.

Put an idiot at the steering wheel, it's only a matter of time before you have a wreck.

Watch Michael Moore any?

http://www.rrsd.mb.ca/Douglas/jcline/koolaid.jpg

What are you smokin'?

Clinton lobbed a few cruise missiles and failed to take out Bin Ladin when he had him in the crosshairs.

Bush sent in the full US army --twice (Afghanistan/ Iraq).

It's Clinton's penis fault! Thats why GWB breaks US law.

Get back on topic gents. This is about the NSA having the right to spy on ANY person(s) who communicate with people oversees. I don't know about you people, but two of my biggest clients are in Holland. Are they monitoring me also? Hell if I know, but it's fucked up that they can if they deem me a "threat to national security" with no trial, no warrant, hell no evidence by their rules.

Anyone, and yes, i'll say it again for the slow people posting in this thread, if you back a single action Bush performs, you are a moron.

All government is corrupt, left wing, right wing, all of it. The U.S. form of government has been broken for some time now, there just aren't enough people with balls to do anything about it.

Anyway, now that we're back on topic...I'm out. :) Enjoy debating this till the sky turns into marshmallows.

Screw the ACLU; I am giving up my membership in it.

Nixon and Clinton both lied to SAVE THEIR OWN ASS.

1. GWB didn't lie. Everybody including the Dems, thought there were WMDs in Iraq.

2. Even in the very remote possibility that GWB did lie, there is still no personal benefit for GWB. He was not spying to win re-election (Nixon). Nor was he trying to save his own ass for conspiring to deny a woman (Paula Jones) a fair trial.

In all scenarios, GWB has been trying to do what is right for the US, the people of Iraq, and the world. GWB is a hero. And all you haters look like fools.

The DOJ policies on adult entertainment are another matter.. :(

And that's exactly where these "values" and "freedoms" go right out the window.

Even the use of the term "threat to national security" is an abuse. It gets weak when any government uses that on people to create the threat of an enemy - then tell them the enemy they are supposed to hate.

Democracies are open and not a secret. They have laws and due legal process - not made up terminology to suit the occasion, like "enemy combatants".

Hell... bin Laden as already won his "war" and economically contributed to the screwing of the US under the Bush admin - far more than any "attack" could do.

And now they are so naive to think "terrorists use phones" to have cosy chats about their intentions? Yea... dream on.

Wow some of you are total wackos. If you think the economy is bad you are a fool. The hip high load of shit this country just came through is amazing. The economy barely fluctuated after numerous hurricanes, 2 wars, and an attack on American soil. Maybe a few of you need to go live in your precious France you always speak of. I believe their unemployment is at or above 11%. :thumbsup Enjoy living with those cheese eating surrender monkeys. :winkwink: :1orglaugh There is enough whine to go around there for you all at least.

Oh and Im pretty sure the Government doesnt care about a call to Holland. *rolls eyes*

with the powers that the NSA has, i hardly am bothered by a few cookies. you guys really need to gain some perspective.

Maybe you need to go live in some third world dictatorship so you can see what it's like living under a despot like Bush is trying to become.

Our precious France LOL.. yeah all us liberals sit around drinking wine and eating cheese and talk about how much we love Bin Laden.

GOD DAMN you people are soooooooooooooo stupid. Bleating about how great this country is while you're busy trying your best to fuck it up. We elect Presidents in this country, not Kings. Presidents follow the law and the executive branch is only ONE part of our government in this country. You don't like it? Move to Zimbabwe. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

DaddyHalbucks, Clinton contained Saddam totally. He kept our country safe. It's your fuckup GWB that got us hit thru total inattention to national security. I don't know about you, but I can think of a lot better uses for the 200 or 300 BILLION dollars we've spent in Iraq trying to bring democracy to a bunch of Arabs. Who just elected a religious shiite govt, by the way. Way to go George! Bankrupt our treasury for Halliburton and the Mullah. I'd rather we had spent on Americans. But that's just me. And it's not enough for you that he got us hit on 9/11 thru his incompetence, or that he spent hundreds of billions on fucking Arabs, or that Halliburton just keeps getting richer and richer thru no-bid govt contracts, or that the emerging Diebold situation makes it ever more likely that we're going to find out he stole the election, that's not enough to make you suspicious. You think a blowjob in the oval office is a more serious offense than lying to congress about made up intelligence, taking us to war for no reason, blowing our national surplus on a war undertaken purely for propaganda to use on sheep like you.

In fact, if you're still a Bush cheerleader, there's absolutely no point in making this post. You're brain dead and incapable of the level of reasoning required to change your mind in the face of even the most overwhelming evidence. I'm very, VERY glad I'm not you.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Is this apparently common disease of ignorance, learned hate and pathetic dribble presumably mean't as an attack on others mean't to be smart ass??
WTF are "cheese eating surrender monkeys"??? :winkwink:

Ya got a lot to learn about this world man *rolls eyes*

Ah... the cheese eaters are mean't to be the French? :winkwink:

That's predictable - another "learned hatred" taught by the usual powers who are incapable of a even doing a simple inter-nation deal without a load of bullshit attached. :winkwink:

I always thought you were kind of smart. Guess I can't be right all of the time.

I stopped reading this about half way down the first page when I saw the same group of guys start flamming. Cookies? WTF? Cookies? HA HA HA well if that's what they think is appropriate to stop the 'terrorist killers' then cool enough.

It is pretty normal for a national security organization to spy on its own members... this is your idea of a headline?

Wow just reading the lefty responses make me chuckle.. and make me feel sorry for them. :Oh crap Sad.

empty answers by kids make me wonder were the USA are heading ... :Oh crap

Will America default on debt for the first time in history?