the World Wide Web is not the internet... the HTTP protocols ride ontop of the internet backbone. FTP, WAIS, etc protocols ride ontop of the internet, accessing via TCP/IP. The internet was around before WWW, which popped up commercially around 1994, whereas the internet/arpanet have been around for much longer.


Fight the history lesson!

Well what I am trying to describe though is that to break that Patent one has to look at the mechanics of original concepts that were never intended in application of ecommerce.

Goto remember that Ecommerce did not create the internet. The internet was founded off principals of government Computer Scientists establishing means of communications and its needs within the medium. This includes unique identifyers and session ID's. The concepts were open by standard of PC scripting in the computer sciences community in this case CGI.

Those elements they devised is where ecommerce was built from just because a dollar sign in real world application comes into the equation is irrelevant. The methodology was already founded by the government.

there should be a law against people waiting for years to cash in on their patents.

Here check this out to FTP:
http://webdevelopersjournal.com/arti..._servlets.html

Here is some interesting stuff from CERN in 1994:
http://www94.web.cern.ch/WWW94/PrelimProcs.html
Bottom of page:


Keywords: business, home use
Title: Changing your Business Culture with Mosaic (Abstract)
Author: Ray Anderson
Institute:IXI/SCO
PostScript, Size: 23621, Printed: 1 page

Funny that the government made it so that Patents can be transferred.

Kinda a booty ruling.

FTP - you know I'm doing random searches to see what I can find.
http://www.htdig.org/mail/2000/03/03...sion+ids&hl=en
Here they mention Apache servers automatically attaching the session id to the url if htdig doesn't accept cookies - depending on when Apache started doing that & if it kept track of who/what or if it used a CGI script - would that not prove that it was not a miraculous discovery?
*posts are from year 2000 but perhaps Apache was before that*

soon you'll be able to buy "stocks" for enforceable patents :1orglaugh

Taken from another board:
Google being sue for $5B

When did Adultcheck start?

http://IPalert.com is a useful tool for inventors tracking their inventions or those of others :winkwink:


have a great new year's :thumbsup

evidence such as this could prove that the patent was "non-obvious", that anyone "skilled in the arts" could see that other things were going around that would naturally have led to this invention.

amazon is at the early stages, somewhat like declaratory judgement, that if they can show the judge that (adult) websites were embedding an identifier in the URL to track clickthrus for commissions, etc.. then this case can get closed.

If amazon cannot come up with a silver bullet by the end of january, then it will have to go to court, where they will bring in expert witnesses, testimony, and evidence such as what you have been finding.. but that means a drawn-out legal process.

If the defendants against Acacia had this same opportunity, they probably could have nipped acacia right from the beginning.. we found some great prior art of digital video being used on BBS way before the Acacia patent.. but in the Acacia patent case, it went through Markman Hearings, etc,etc...which drew this thing out over 3 years.

To better focus people's time in searching, there has to be a clear usage of an identifier, embeded within the URL that would be used for affiliates.

anything other than the above focus, is something that the defense attorneys probably already found, or not useful to them at this stage of the game unless there is specifically the demonstrated use of an affiliate link.

many thanks for to everyone jumping in to find the prior art. this patent really is an important one to unravel.... if adult industry use of affiliate links can't be found prior to sep 1995, then it doesn't look good for everyone.

I feel that this patent is "obvious" due to CGI programming on webservers back at that time, that would easily lead to affiliate marketing integration.




Fight the duhhhhh!

you mean stock ACTG = Acacia ?
:1orglaugh


Fight the patent day traders!

Thanks for the heads up.

Bump for the nuisance patent attornies.

History of the internet revealed!

Keeping this one alive.

This is ridiculous. The Internet itself is infringing on this patent:

This is even broader than Bezos' unenforceable patent attempt. It seems to focus no more sharply than "continuity of data association" -- Forget about it -- :thumbsup

Tim O'Reilly said it well in 2000. I think it still sounds good today:

"

I also want to say that a patent [like this] is a slap in the face of Tim Berners-Lee and all of the other pioneers who created the opportunity that Amazon has done such a good job of exploiting. Amazon wouldn't have existed without the generosity of people like Tim, who made legitimate, far-reaching inventions, and put them out into the public domain for all to build upon. Anyone who puts a small gloss on this fundamental technology, calls it proprietary, and then tries to keep others from building further on it, is a thief. The gift was given to all of us, and anyone who tries to make it their own is stealing our patrimony.

Patents like this are also incredibly short-sighted! The web has exploded because it was an open platform that sparked countless innovations by users. Fence in that platform, and who knows what opportunities will never come to light?

I urge Amazon to give up on this patent. I am confident that it will eventually be overturned in any case... more

"

The Web has been developed under a certain set of informal groundrules, where imitation was the sincerest form of flattery. Those rules are under attack, as companies decide the Web is "good enough" and now they are going to change the rules under which it developed, and stop others from copying them. We have to strike now, before exclusionary and proprietary approaches become accepted practice.

At the end of the day, a culture is ruled not just by its laws but by its social norms. The social norms of the Internet and of the Open Source community, which have proven so productive in the development of the Web, need to be recognized, honored, and upheld. The public relations cost of violating those norms needs to be high...more

2hp

there is already re-exam requests accepted by Patent Office over the 1-click patent.... as prior art for it has been submitted.

still nothing solid yet from the adult biz about affiliate programs before sept 1995.



Fight the still looking!

I am busy with some pro-bono work for a related good cause today, Brandon. If you feel there is time enough to wait, let's have an exhaustive chat about this in LV. Though I am laboring with some heavy ideological boulders today, I am always looking out for the odd smooth stone, by heel or toe, to which I might give a friendly tap, nudge or bump as I work.

2 Chronicles 32:5

as people get hip to the value of intellectual property portfolio's and wish to create or acquire their own, they will have incredible benefits from using the Patent & Trademark Watcher at http://IPalert.com

at http://IPalert.com you can sit back and watch a movie on the front page and see the simplicity of the interface....


we use it and we see a lot of folks in our industry are applying for patents btw. you might as well do a 30 day trial of the patent and trademark watcher at http://IPalert.com and also utilize the http://PDDW.com Pending Delete Domains Watcher, as the use of both will increase your knowledge base and protect your trademarks, plus much, much, more........

new years bump


Fight the patent trolls!

uspto.gov seems to be infringing also...

When researching the Infonautics patents I was sent to the following link which begins:

|http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=...ft.usp to.gov

This link contains a reference to 'homeurl', which identifies the page from which the link was clicked. This would appear to be somewhat similar to the technique that Amazon is being sued for using.


2hp

true, but USPTO isn't running any affiliate program to track clickthrus for commission/marketing tracking.

this patent would be able to be beaten by showing CGI linking from one website to another, and that it would be an obvious extension to track clicks, etc.

what is needed is a silver bullet of an adult affiliate program that was running before sept 1995.


Fight the emphasis!

Didn't PK, Greenguy, Marks Bookmarks and the other big linklists start around '94? I wonder what they were using for advertisers at the beginning? They must have been among the very first to sign up with the very first affiliate programs I would think. If anyone can help it would be the brandname linklists I would think.

if i recall correctly in her interview, PK was just getting paid flat rate with no tracking urls... just winging it in the beginning (which most of us did) :)

Anyone maybe know of any CGI/web programmers back in 94-95 time period that might have worked on affliate programming?

please have them contact me or if you have their contact info via ICQ.

Fight the inquiry!

last bump from me.... if prior art can't be found, then this patent could come trolling through the affiliate programs.... and imagine if the patent owners have some moral "high ground", that they refuse to license it to paysites and charge high rates for paying for prior infringement... what the government could never do, business can.... shudder at that thought.

you can try to change the way you run your affiliate linking today, but that just stops the clock on infringement. They can go for infringement all the way back to 1998 when the patent was approved.



Fight the crystal ball!

I will help all I can, but it's not clear why prior art is needed of *affiliate* application, when the patent is for URL info pass-forward, or why it needs to be from Adult?

2hp

You know I've been a programmer for a long time and passing a variable is NOT a new idea its basic programming.. To say passing a variable for any specific reason is patentable is a joke. Its like saying I invented passing a variable to put you name on a web page.

any programmer knows that one.

They would have to say any affiliate program was their idea. And the idea of a salesman on commision is as old as dirt and mute. It will never fly

as a fellow programmer who was doing web development back in '95 i absolutely agree with you. The patent can be shredded apart by expert witness who could explain how passing of variables in the URL to a CGI script and doing something with it (like counter, etc) was "obvious".

Amazon has done a year's worth of research, and I am sure their own developers are saying the same thing, but at the stage of the court process that they are in, if they can show an affiiliate program before sep 1995 using a link with an affiliate identifier, then this patent case can be dismissed.

If they cannot find this mythical silver bullet, then they have to go to court and go through discovery and then court.. which after a few years and a few million dollars, they would unravel this patent.

During the time that amazon is tied up in courts, this BTG company can then go around and try to pick up others to license their patent, citing that Barnes&Nobles and Netflix licensed, and how they are now in court with Amazon.

While corporate america can certainly take care of itself, the problem is that corporate america does need the silver bullet to shoot down this beast of a patent infringement claim. If they aren't the ones holding the big gun, then it makes it harder for middle to small sized companies to carry the financial burden of going to court.

So there needs to be a clear demonstration of an affiliate program prior to Sept 1995, that comes through either the program owner or a programmer who can testify and document that such an occurence happened.


Fight the patent!

the amazon patent attorneys have already looked all through mainstream, and they have some potential leads, but no silver bullets.

they believe that the adult biz must hold the answer to technological breakthrough of an affiliate program prior to the patent filing in sept 1995.


Fight the needle!

funny you should say that, microsoft tried to patten smillies haha. S Truit Cathy the founder of chic fil a pattented the Chic-fil-a chicken sandwhich and the term waffle potato fry. He also created the food court, people will claim anything and sometimes they get away with it.....

Come to think about it Capcom sued SNK over the rights to fighting games based on real martial arts styles, maybe I should go in patent some things that already existed and sue!

holy prior art batman... i think i may have found the prior art !

chasing down this pretty solid lead. if this lead works out, then it can be presented in court at end of January.. and if this lead is the silver bullet, you'll hear about it from me.

Fight the shhhhh, it's a secret!

So if they identify it as patent, what does that mean for the adult industry?

If the prior art lead is solid, then it means Amazon can beat down this claimed patent over affiliate programs, and all affiliate programs (adult and mainstream) will have one less patent to worry about.

This one is particularly troubling because of its very early filing date and the broadness of the patent, that would make it the foundation patent for all other patents filed on affiliate program.


Fight the patent!