Your opinion again, could be considered utterly fucking worthless in this thread.

12click your calling me a pedophile in obscure ways will never be forgotten, you just fucked yourself.

Legality and integrity are two different things. And passing the buck to visa isn't exactly standing up for yourself. If you know something is WRONG but still do it only becasue there isn't a law against it then there is a serious character flaw there.

There's nothing illegal about saying Osama Bib Laten is a hero and someone to admire. It's WRONG though....

If YOU think there is NOTHING wrong with these sites then that's ok, but doing it and not feeling quite right about it (especially with the hint of child porn all around this topic and one person already convicted on it) makes you nothing less than a cheap whore - something that's legal in many places.

Just my two cents worth on the topic. Feel free to cut me up on that opinion as most ususally do when I speak up..........

Why is it when a topic scares you that you avoid it and make personal attacks? Think about what I said and answer again if you have the courage within you to deal with the REAL issue here. You're capable of soo much more yet sooo often you fall down to the lowest common denomator.

hey dopey, plenty of people think BJ pics, anal sex, and group sex are wrong too. (damn, I hate spelling out the obvious to the stupid) You draw the line where the law draws the line, you're fine. Anything else is hypocritical when dripping out of the mouth of a TGPer like yourself who links to plenty of things other people think are wrong.

of course you still won't understand.:repuke

unfortunately, the lowest common denomator is generally you.
I suggest that *you* go back and re-read what *I* wrote.

Yeah, this topic and your ability to wield your scary intelligence is scaring me to death.

I suggest you reread what I wrote and shut the fuck up.

Youre calling me a fucking pedphile here in public, claiming I use this to get off.

Sorry buddy if you only knew.

Well, it's no longer surprising to me why the media constantly portrays all pornographers as KP peddlers and beasty sellers.

Half the industry vocally supports the rights to exist of sites like that. Why would anyone think any different?

same thing again. avoiding the issue.

I'm never wrong. ask around.

My problem is with a site who has a Yahoo group with links to 6-12 tear old girls.

The Yahoo group has 3k of members. Pic traders. Password traders.

This site is fueling CP and is also traffic for up2-17 you tell me whats wrong here?

FatPad - man you nailed it.

I sit in a room next to Fletch 15 hours a day and can vouch that what you are saying is NOT the case. Maybe you shouldn't "think" so much. Being his girlfriend of five years, and an adult, I take offense to your statement that my man jerks off to CP.

Basis of what I'm saying is if YOU know something is wrong yet continue to do it. If YOU don't think there is anything wring with iths quazy chirld porn stuff power to ya, but if you DO think there is something wrong with it yet still take this stance then there is something seriously wrong with you.

example: I won't touch fake rape scenes, nothing illegial about them but I just don't feel right about them so I wont' touch it. Just a matter of my personal integrity and sense of right and wrong.


Are you saying you're fine with pushing the line on child porn as close as you POSSIBLY can to the limit the law will allow or do you have any sense of personal right and wrong in acceptable business tactics?

I had sex when I was 14 with a college girl who was 20. According to law, she committed a heinous act of child molestation and should be charged with a felony and sent to prison. That is what the LAW says, I, on the other hand, would like to send her a great big THANK YOU, BABE. YOU ROCKED MY WORLD! I was a horny punk (as most teens are) and am very thankful for her "molestation".

I have a swedish friend who enlightened me to the fact that America has a serious problem with sex. My friend was 16 at the time and was very sexually active. Fantastic girl who was mature past her years. She pointed out to me that Americans glorify violence yet condem sex. It is okay for a child to watch people getting blown to bits yet they cannot watch people having sex.

I do not believe in morals and, frankly, do not have any that I know of. I live by the notion that as long as I hurt no one, everything is okay. I think laws that are based on morals are very rediculous. Laws, such as the seatbelt law, helmet law, drug laws, etc. are all laws designed by moralistic people who think that they are protecting me from MYSELF.

If these sites are FORCING the girls to do whatever then it must stop. Everyone should have freedom of choice. However, unless anyone is being hurt, then all is good.

My grandmother told me years ago some wisdom that is very applicable to everday life. She said: People see problems in others what they themselves have a problem with. I have seen it so many times with, for instance, a guy who accusses his girlfriend of being unfaithful because HE is sleeping around.

There is much that could be said about all of this but I will save it for future posts. I know I hate to read these long ass posts myself :)

sorry dopey. legal is legal. its that simple. anything else makes you pornographers hypocrites.


I don't like these non-nude sites. I also don't like the asian sites where every pic and movie has the chick acting like she's in pain.
its simulated rape, nothing more.
The law finds the asian sites legal. Who am I to decide otherwise and call their processor on it?

And who are you pornographers to decide that you know better than the law?

That will be the third time I've explained my position yet sleazboy and a few others can't say anything but, "the law doesn't matter"

if it bothers you that much, change your processor.

(just as I don't promote asian sites, lets see you put your money where your mouth is, it will at least give you a shred of credibility)

honey, if you wanted to keep pretending that anyone beside the flech xxx household cared about this shit, you should have kept your mouth shut about the girlfriend thing. kinda makes all the posts the two of you made above look even more silly.

Yea, keep your mouth shut so SpaceClicks can run around accusing more people of frequenting CP sites without basis.

It doesn't look as nearly as silly when someone copies SpaceDog's preferred method of attack and starts throwing out CP accusations.

please explain what you mean by putting your money where you're mouth is? I don't quite get it?

Not promoting it is one thing, supporting it is another. Sites like the ones were are talking about gain credibility when someone like you supports their right to exist and make money.
A law is just someone else telling you what to do.


you ever notice 12clicks gets the most vulgar and rude with the people who make him THINK, if but for a second?

you're not very good at twisting words around. You need to be a bit more subtle.

There is *no* pushing the line on CP. The law has defined CP VERY clearly and we're all thankful for the arrests they make.

If the Law doesn't have a problem with it, who are you to decide?

If you start grasping after *intent* where will it end? You've got no proof that pedophiles go to or run these sites. You only assume they do. Thank god no one assumes anything about TGPers. I assume that these sites are run by underage kids looking to make a buck. I also don't bother to look any deeper because I'm uninterested and it is not illegal.

With all the pics you're linked to I could assume your a pimp showing your wares. no?

you either have a vivid imagination or you don't no the meaning of vulgar.

12clicks - you are no authority on credibility or integrity. As a matter of fact I cant think of anything you say that is worth the time it takes to read them.

No matter how you word it, or what you say, your opinion is basically fucking worthless because an opinion can only be valid when you have the inteillegence to have reached that decision with some kind of thought process, which you have proven to have the minimal waves required to exist.

Please since you rather hide behind laws like the rest, you my friend are no worst than them. I would like to think that some of us can make a difference in keeping our business clean. If you have nothing positive to say, please dont reply, I am into furthering my career and my profession as a Adult Webmaster, these laws and these arrests effect us all in one way or another. Sure hide behind you being offshore, or its legal fuck it stance, but one day something will creep up on you.

People like Nina Hartley, whom I have met and spoken to were early pushers in keeping this business respected by the very outsiders that ONLY see the TRUETEENBABES.com news flash. These people need to KNOW that some of us (not speaking for you 12clicks) are good honest webmasters who instead of saying, "non nude is legal lets do it" we stand back and take a stance against that. That is what MY COUNTRY is based on. That is what I base my reactions on.

I dont know you personally or what you have done. But I have worked in the Adult Industry for over 5 years. Not on the internet but the Adult Indusry as in the movie makers and the real content providers.

I have had FBI "narcs" in chat rooms 3 years ago because of "visible insertion" in case you arent familiar with this, in California we have an "Obscenity Law" which basically says everything we film here is illegal. Anal sex flicks made 2 blocks from my home are considered illegal and indescent, and get you jail time.

I worked with a company who set up hardcore live feeds for Hustler because Flynt was the only one who would put his name on the line in saying, fuck the judge we got hardcore feeds from Hollywood" and we did this for years. Unfortunately as all laws change so do people will to fight.

We ran live web feeds for years to 1000s of paysite member sections, any big time players know what Im talking about. Talking old school here, 97-99. And its basically illegal for a girl to put a dildo in her pussy on cam in California, and msot states yet its done by 1000s of people making money. Lets not forget all gay/homosexual movies are illegal in thei Country under the same Obscenity Law,... because sodomy is illegal in most states.

So just because you dont give a fuck or care about the future of this industry do NOT sit back and think "switching my processor" is the answer, it is NOT the answer. If CC Bill and Ibill were not "known as being the non nude processors" then they would not have been processing for them in the first place.

Since I started this thread I have seen replies like "theyve always done this,".... and "CC Bill and I bill is known for processing non nude sites" -

well I didnt know this, and if it was not for threads like this, then maybe someone else down the line can make the decision to use certain processors based on this info.

To shut up and change my processor is not the answer, its only fueling the problem, but I am sure you wont understand this and simply cop a one line reply, proving your intelligence yet again.

Just stop, this is a discussion for obviously much more thinking than most conjure. Because it involves a question of charchter and personal choice.

Its my thread, deal with it.

What the fuck is your point? Your posting in this thread is completely fucking useless.

Don't tell me what I "should" have done. You are just as hypocritical as the points you are trying to make. And if you would look at the number of replies to this thread, you might realize you just put your fucking foot in your mouth...it seems like LOTS of people besides the "fletch xxx household" are concerned about this issue. Sure, make your points about the law. But yet again I will ask this question. And I will address it to you since you know "the law."

to 12clicks:
If this teen fashion model niche is LEGAL.... then WHY did that guy get arrested???? You say you abide by the laws and accept them. Can you tell me WHY that guy was arrested if what he was doing is legal? Huh?

I'm not looking to twist words around. Just poking around to see if you support the idea of people pushing the line RIGHT up to the legal limit of child porn?

I'm not the one to decide ANYTHING for anyone else, but I am asking for clarity (mostly cause I'm nosy) what YOUR take is on pushing the line on Child porn right up to the legal limit since one or two (crazy) people will listen to you on here.

dude, if I understand your post, you're a criminal. you want to talk about credibility? hahaha. you're a joke.
I guess it makes you feel good to have found something that offends you so you can *pretend* to be self rightous.

If that's your game, sorry I tripped over your game board.

you keep right on breaking your local laws because, hey, you know better. hahahahaha joker.

On a similar note....

I just got a job coaching girls highschool volleyball.

honey, I don't know what he did but it obviously was more than the other 10,000 NN sites on the net or there would have been a sweep and not a single arrest only.

get it?

got any pics? :1orglaugh

or he was in a different goegraphical loaction than the others....

No we ran an honest game, and thats why I am still in business and so is the company I worked for. We VOLUNTEERED for the narcs to be planted in our chat rooms to show we dont do anything wrong.

damn man, I even predicted you would do this.

LOL

I think we'd all predict it after your comments:
quick, start your spin.

I am no criminal, no more than Larry Flynt is since I worked for him, are you calling Larry Flynta Cp pusher or criminal?

if he directed you to break the law and you did, then yes he'd be a criminal.

I like your style, the kind of guy who thinks the law doesn't apply to them but then non-laws should apply to whoever you choose. hahaha

Fact is, its because of big companies like I worked for who run honest sites who keep the integrity of this boat afloat. If we had been doing illegal shit back then and running a huge studio with well over 500 performers, there would be no way the internet porn thing would be what it is today.

Its because of people like me and my associates that help keep this game clean, instead of vocally supporting the things you so claim to hide behind 12clicks.

Please just drop it man, you are here to ONLY change facts and reword posts you dont even comprehend the first time around, so how could your replies matter?

I did not say he had me do illegal things did i? I said he was the ONLY one brave enough to let the feds monitor his shit.

We flew banners that said "Fuck the FBI, we got hardcore feeds."

He was the one who could afford to put his name on it, have the FBI mintor it, and not do a damn thing. Cuz it was legit.

We had FAKE INSERTIOn, you need to reread before you mouth off.

translation:

OK. you're right. I break the law but its ok because I said so. Besides, I made the internet what it is today.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

If I had known you where this happening, I'd have left you alone. hahahahaha

I think 12clicks is drunk tonight and lookin to stir something up.

i believe that parents are mislead, photographers told them they could make them into stars,,

have you ever seen a model release form? the model looses are rights to the pictures,,,,, they prolly never knew what exactly their pics were going to be viewed from,,,

dude, instead of taking 6 posts to get from "I committed crimes" to "no,no it was all fake" why don't you just edit your first post saying "we have an "Obscenity Law" which basically says everything we film here is illegal"
?????

You keep fighting champ, you're the hero of the net. I'm off to bed.

pass out is more like it.