Originally Posted by JFK

Try "Depends":Graucho

Originally Posted by greenlab

Most of you dont know the real deal behind Epassporte...
Did you ever wonder why everytime someone from epass was posting in threads, they claimed that epassporte has hundred of thousends of users....definetlly not all of them are webmasters :)

The main scope of existence of epassporte is the issuing of debit cards for chargeback ballancing. It worked like this till now...every %x member that signed up trough paycom (or other processors) for a site membership, were given an epassporte Gift card. It works like this...paycom is giving you a membership to site xxxx for free, as long as you are a member of site yyyyy. In order to process your membership for site xxxx, we are giving you an epass Virtual Visa Gift card. The membership costs 29.99$/month, however, paycom will make sure that the 29.99$ will be deposited everymonth onto your visa gift card.
Actually paycom/epass were crediting your epass visa gift card with 29.99$ every month, and then in 30 secs, they were billing the card though one of designated merchant account, with a cost of just the processing fee (discount rate). By billing hubdreds of thouseds of cards like this, there is now wandering why their chargeback ratio si very low, and they still allow cross sales without any problems...(have seen sites with 2 pre checked crossales).

So this is the biggest reason for epassporte to exist, and this is why it was created...the issuing of plastic debit cards and affiliate/webmaster payments are done just to make epassporte look compliant in the eyes of Visa, as this gets lots of $$$$ volume and they can claim that the main purphose of their service is not the issuing of "gift cards" - and that they are actually a 100% legitimate issuer....

now think for a second...do you think that there are more that 10.000 webmasters that get payments by epassporte ? There is a huge distance to the hundreds of thousents cards that epassporte is claiming they have issued...(and they are telling the truth here). The rest are just "Gift Cards".....and they are trying to offset this by the funds that get moved by affiliate programs and the use of debit cards for widthrawal in all countryes arround the world...

However, thay have gone too far and visa is getting quite close on them....

The trick is somewhat similat to what ibill does with gkard, but the Epassporte trick is much more stable and intellingent...

Originally Posted by AlienQ

My question is simply.

Will the event inflate charge backs at PAYCOM?

If The scenerio is correct then PAYCOM stands to be in some deep shit with Charge Backs.

Epass collapses chasing mainstream down or succeeds, PayCom burns to death in Chargebacks.

Those are the only scenerio's that can play out.

Originally Posted by AlienQ

A better question would be...

Who will survive.

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

Epass & Paycom are seperate companies. I don't see why this would affect webmaster payments.

We will be carrying on business as usual, paying weekly by epassporte and even still paying by paypal :)

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Thats the fastest translation Shap.

Its not good news for either company obvisously and what Green is saying makes perfect sense.

Maybe its all horse shit and just speculation but damned if it makes complete sense then the obvious is about to happen.

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

I have said it once and will say it again, I just love ccbill.

Originally Posted by AlienQ

When Visa swings its hand it affects all transactions providers.

Originally Posted by shap

Especially if any big companies jump from Paycom to ccbill. If big paysites make that jump Andre and us will lose while ccbill gains.

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

how do you think would we lose?

Originally Posted by shap

I had an interesting talk with a big well known webmaster at internext regarding paycom. One thing we both questioned was how a company as successful as paycom could make the money they've made and not make a SINGLE improvement to their stats interface in more than 6 years. From the looks of it (on our end) Paycom has re-invested little back into their business in the last few years.
Why would a company as successful as paycom not try to improve their product? Or at least their interface in 6 years?
Why Did they let their big gun and industry face Chris Mallick leave?
How does it happen that an employee like Amparo with many clients that depend on her leaves the company and her clients are left in limbo with no sales rep for months?

From my point of view paycom has been cashing checks and not looking towards the future but looking to milk this baby as hard as they can today. I know Rand and Clay are smart wealthy guys and I don't know what goes on behind closed doors. This is just how it appears to alot of us paysite webmasters.

Originally Posted by shap

When a processing company brings on a large client many changes occur that usually result in other clients suffering. Especially if the rebills are moved over. If the rebills are moved they know there will be an increase in CB from that and will tighten the scrub across the board to secure the company's future. It sucks but it allows them to stay in business. I'm sure KimmyKim and some other processing people could explain it better than I could. I've had it explained to me in the past and it made perfect sense.

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

Im thinking about the same. And dont forget 24/7 email support like ccbill offers. They reply within minutes and paycom isnt able to reply within days sometimes. Thats why I stayed away from ibill btw, because of the lack of support.

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

But ccbill doesnt allow pre-checked cross sales, etc...They look more towards the future and did so the past few years. So even with more clients, they will have less problems like epoch would have in the same situation.

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

I don't see why they'd drop adult. Adult is a nice niche that they can dominate for years. Everyone acts like it will be easy to cut into Paypal's market share. Good luck with that, Paypal has a great system, better rates, better customer service, and already a huge stranglehold on the market. I think the best way to expand is to maximize areas that Paypal can't touch.

Originally Posted by Jace

this thread is one of the most enlightening threads on GFY in a long fucking time...anyone who doesn't read every single post is an idiot....

my head is CHURNING with conspiracy theory type thought right now...LOL

Originally Posted by Furious_Male

I am concerned as an affiliate that has a decent amount of funds going through the epassporte system on a monthly basis.

I just don't know what to say or think at this time. Some sort of official response from epassporte would be real nice.

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Well if it was only cross sales, then thats 50% of transactions if it was single pre-checked cross sales (assuming 100% join forms w/1 cross), correct?

If thats the case, then CB ratios would still be the same without them, or what did I miss? In other words, the original transacton ratio still must be kept below 1% irregardless.

I have a touch of fever so maybe missed some stuff here.

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

every transaction is counted, new, xsell, rebill...

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

ok, so the assumption for people worrying about CB ratios is that larger than 50% of all transactions scored towards CB levels were from gift cards?

hmm. Anyway, it's an interesting thread and will keep checking back. Super Bowl coin toss in progress..:pimp

Originally Posted by Blizzard

The owner of ePassporte, Chris Mallick, might be here to explain, he'll start off with his usual "Sorry I was on business in Europe".

Originally Posted by shaliza

Chris is traveling but I have made him aware of this thread and he will be posting as soon as he gets to a computer.

Originally Posted by Trax

i know a few people that are fuckin pissed right now
a thread like this is rare
and so many people keep quiet

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Well if it was only cross sales, then thats 50% of transactions if it was single pre-checked cross sales (assuming 100% join forms w/1 cross), correct?

If thats the case, then CB ratios would still be the same without them, or what did I miss? In other words, the original transacton ratio still must be kept below 1% irregardless.

I have a touch of fever so maybe missed some stuff here.

Originally Posted by Trax

i know a few people that are fuckin pissed right now
a thread like this is rare
and so many people keep quiet

Originally Posted by greenlab

Tom...lets say that in 1 month paycom processes 100.000 new joins and with those 100.000 joins, some 50.000 cross sales are created. So at the end of the month paycom will have 150.000 transactions, where they are allowed 1% chargebacks and namely 1500 transactions, or 1% in the total transaction volume.

Now let's say that all 100.000 new joins were offered a free Gift Subscription to a xyz website and "in order to process your gift membership" a Epassporte Visa Gift card was creeated for them and so on (the cards gets credited for the gift membership ammount and then in 20 sec gets debited....etc).
Now, at the end of the month paycom will have 250.000 transactions (100.000 new joins + 50.000 crosssales + 100.000 Visa Gift cards), so the allowed chargeback volume will be almost double (2500 instead of 1500 without the Gift cards that got runned trough the system).

Originally Posted by greenlab

Tom...lets say that in 1 month paycom processes 100.000 new joins and with those 100.000 joins, some 50.000 cross sales are created. So at the end of the month paycom will have 150.000 transactions, where they are allowed 1% chargebacks and namely 1500 transactions, or 1% in the total transaction volume.

Now let's say that all 100.000 new joins were offered a free Gift Subscription to a xyz website and "in order to process your gift membership" a Epassporte Visa Gift card was creeated for them and so on (the cards gets credited for the gift membership ammount and then in 20 sec gets debited....etc).
Now, at the end of the month paycom will have 250.000 transactions (100.000 new joins + 50.000 crosssales + 100.000 Visa Gift cards), so the allowed chargeback volume will be almost double (2500 instead of 1500 without the Gift cards that got runned trough the system).