Buddy you basis is hollow.
You keep running back to BS examples that don't represent the whole.
There is no way you can use that to wipe out over 50yrs of "ally" status. If you haven't noticed just about the rest of the world doesn't agree on the invasion of Iraq and that includes many "ally's". So excuse Turkey for making a call there. If you didn't notice 95% of the US operations that have been going on in Turkey are still.

Its obvious that you're using the whole "OMFG can u believe a Turkish film portrays Americans in a bad light" BS as you're soapbox for the genocide issue.
It's understandable.
Do you think the majority of the free-minded educated Turks don't want some kind fo resoultuion on the issue. They would all like to see some kind of grievances made about it and move on in a better light. Absolutely.

Are you that ignorant that you let a small percentage of the people in power (and fanatics) be your representation of a people as a whole (in which ever time period) ?
I guess you're to blind to see that there are over 70 million Turkish people from just about ever corner of the globe. One of the most diverse cultures around. Sure we are struggling with reform and right wing politics. But we are PROGRESSING. We're not bombing or invading, killing or oppressing other countries. The more that are educated the more the awareness level comes up and the more change occurs. I'm sure you know separating religion from state is not an easy task. But we've managed to become secular and managed to loosen the grip of Islam in government and politics in so many big ways. Come one man.. look at our neighbors. It ain't no cake walk.

So before you come on your horse high and mighty with baggage as a country like no other. Ask yourself this... what is it exactly you want these people as a whole or as a country to "get". What is it exactly that your going to tell them about they're past they they don't already live every day for the most part wanting to be evolved from.

People for the most part want them same thing. To be happy and free. But we're at the crux of the situation again and before you even finish what I'm writing I'm sure you thought of 20 more "owned" comebacks that you think might show something the world doesn't already know.
It's sad.. b/c if I was in Boston at a pub and we had this conversation you wouldnt even know that I was Turkish and probably would understand exactly where I'm coming from. And that's why for the most party Turkey has helped the US when it does. We all want the same things. It's not that hard to see.
Strip away the govements, bad polotics,shitty history, and we're all just a bunch of blokes wanting to get drunk and laid.
Aint life grand?

everybody wants to be the bad guy, thats great roles :1orglaugh

Say thanks to the next native american indian you see for simply handing america over to you guys and getting you where you are today. Oh, wait..

He's smoking crack.


-20 million native americans were massacered.
-The American Crusades, 15 million gone.
-Atlantic Slave Trade, 18 million slaughtered.

Theres much more. He seriously needs to get a clue.

did you know america has imprisoned american citizens since 2001?, not for having views against america but POSSABLY having views against america.

So what's the problem? It's called a MOVIE

So, why doesn't Amerika liberate Turkey and the poor Turks...????

Oups, forgot: just like in Pakistan, they are your allies, even contributing to the torture of " flying" prisoners ....

So then, it is OK... But they better stay in line, or else ....

And yes, It is a movie ... would you prefer a " cartoon " ?

Turk,

Friendship between nations takes years to establish, but one day to destroy. Yes Turkey and America has been allies for 50 years. Then when America really needs Turkey they turn them down. Ok, this is fine, because the parliament voted and a democratic vote always needs to be respected. But why then go a say "if you gives us more money" we will let you use the Northern front? Isn't this a little two-faced trick? The whole point of an "ally" is to support your other ally in every time, especially during war.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,78890,00.html

No, my original thread was about the movie, but they all you hypocrites started to talk about the freedom of speech in Turkey and that this movie is a portrayal of this. My, friend selective freedom of speech does not count. If Turkey showed movies about the Armenian Genocide or stopped jailing writers and journalists for insulting Turkey, I would drop the issue:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4688992.stm

So, I still missed it, do you accept or not the Armenian Genocide, because your words sound sincere but they are still not fully understandable? And you know the only solution is for Turkey coming clean with its past and accepting it, period!

You are not oppressing other countries, because you have already done this 91 years ago, no more countries and people to oppress lol. They are now 40,000 Armenians left in Turkey from 2 million.

Anyways, I do not want to drag this any further. Lots of Turks are good people, actually lots of them helped Armenians escape the Genocide by risking their lives. But, they are still lots of ignorant fools that were and are still being brainwashed by your government to believe that there was no Genocide, while most of the world accepted this horrific fact in history. Your country needs to come clean. Have a good day.

it's true..

if it is true that Turkey and USA have been allies for the past 50 years or so, USA can not be so stupid to only give and take nothing.



Actually it is Hagia Sophia. It is a museum now.

at least we are only opressing, but not also INVADING and BOMBING



the thing is they are not countries in which the majority of the population is made up of muslims.

True. Unfortunately you keep all the invasion and genocide for yourself.



I can't have anything to say for this, you speak for yourself you are a racist. I feel sorry for you.

somebody bumped this thread...

to answer your question. Turkey has been providing land to states for military activities towards iraq and afghanistan. You were promised before a big sum of money during previous attack in iraq that you never received and history repeats itself.

Agia Sofia VS Hagia Sophia

What are you trying to do here? Point out how are we're gonna call a greek name of a greek place? It started getting funny.

Actually Hagia Sophia is its Greek name. It is written with -H- got it?
Greek place? Just to let you know it has been a Turkish place for the last 500 years, which is way too older than the whole US history.

low blow.


But anyway, not many countries if any can say that they have had no history of violence and war in their making. The countries deemed civilized in Asia (Japan and china) Western Europe (Germany, Great Brittian, France, Spain and the surrounding smaller countries) and North America (Us,Canada) ALL have been involved in wars. In every one of us resides blood that comes from the decendant of a soldier probably, Black, White, Asian, Persian (arab) know that your forefathers killed for land, wealth and power.

that being said the only argument is what we do NOW. I would love a world where everyone got along, where everyone thought of the greater good and worked for it, but it aint gonna happen, there will be war because the few leaders of the many will wage them for pretty much the same things they have always had them for, our need for those things have not changed so why would the way that we go about getting them?

I have not seen the movie and probably will not. If I was an actor and they wanted me in it, if I could not see an clear and underlying message that this actually happened as the script said or that it was obvious it was ficticious with the point being to make the actions of others seem so horrorible, so disgusting and vile that every one who saw it left wanting there to be peace then I would never do it.

If the movie even closely resembled a smear campaign against America or its allies, if it seemed like it would do nothing more than anger volitile people to the point of commiting attocities of their own, there would be no amount of money that would get me to sign my name to it, there are better ways to make money and I am not hurting that bad for it and never will be.

This is differant than a movie like Roots, Tora, Tora, Tora, Full Metal Jacket or movies about WWII or any western made movies about bad situations in society. When Roots came black people did not go out and bomb an embassy now did they? Maybe there is something to be said about how the "civilized" world reacts to popular media, how they look at it, learn from it, educate the future generations on it and move towards not repeating it. I am not going to go as far as to call the middle east uncivilized, but it seems that the few leaders of violent groups can not handle viewing materials without acting violently on them.

With this in mind I have to ask why would anyone put out such a volitile work after the reaction to something as non moving as a cartoon? I am not saying bury your head in the sand, I am just saying have some forethought in what you do, your duty as a member of society to do what you can to help and not hurt. I just hope this is not as bad as it may be, even though it would not take much to cause a problem with certain individuals

The following are the Jewish and Armenian sources on the cold-blooded
genocide perpetrated by the x-Soviet Armenian Government against 2.5
million Muslim people between 1914 and 1920.

Source: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian
armies in 1914, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume
II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)."
(London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316.

"In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city
of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population,
closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan
on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized
and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during
the next two days."

"Knowing their numbers would never justify their territorial ambitions,
Armenians looked to Russia and Europe for the fulfillment of their aims.
Armenian treachery in this regard culminated at the beginning of the First
World War with the decision of the revolutionary organizations to refuse
to serve their state, the Ottoman Empire, and to assist instead other
invading Russian armies. Their hope was their participation in the Russian
success would be rewarded with an independent Armenian state carved out of
Ottoman territories. Armenian political leaders, army officers, and common
soldiers began deserting in droves."

"With the Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia in 1914 at the beginning of
World War I, the degree of Armenian collaboration with the Ottoman's enemy
increased drastically. Ottoman supply lines were cut by guerilla attacks,
Armenian revolutionaries armed Armenian civil populations, who in turn
massacred the Muslim population of the province of Van in anticipation of
expected arrival of the invading Russian armies."


Source: Stanford J. Shaw, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey,"
Vol II. Cambridge University Press, London, 1979, pp. 314-317.

"...Meanwhile, Czar Nicholas II himself came to the Caucasus to make final
plans for cooperation with the Armenians against the Ottomans, with the
president of the Armenian National Bureau in Tiflis declaring in response:

'From all countries Armenians are hurrying to enter the ranks of the
glorious Russian Army, with their blood to serve the victory of Russian
arms...Let the Russian flag wave freely over the Dardanelles and the
Bosporus. Let, with Your will, great Majesty, the peoples remaining
under the Turkish yoke receive freedom. Let the Armenian people of Turkey
who have suffered for the faith of Christ receive resurrection for a new
free life under the protection of Russia.'[155]

Armenians again flooded into the czarist armies. Preparations were made
to strike the Ottomans from the rear, and the czar returned to St. Petersburg
confident that the day finally had come for him to reach Istanbul."

[155] Horizon, Tiflis, November 30, 1914, quoted by Hovannisian, "Road to
Independence," p. 45; FO 2485, 2484/46942, 22083.

"Ottoman morale and military position in the east were seriously hurt, and
the way was prepared for a new Russian push into eastern Anatolia, to be
accompanied by an open Armenian revolt against the sultan.[156]"

[156] Hovannisian, "Road to Independence," pp. 45-47; Bayur, III/1,
pp. 349-380; W.E.D. Allen and P. Muratoff, "Caucasian Battlefields,"
Cambridge, 1953, pp. 251-277; Ali Ihsan Sabis, "Harb Hahralaram," 2 vols.,
Ankara, 1951, II, 41-160; FO 2146 no. 70404; FO 2485; FO 2484, nos.
46942 and 22083.

"An Armenian state was organized at Van under Russian protection, and it
appeared that with the Muslim natives dead or driven away, it might be
able to maintain itself at one of the oldest centers of ancient Armenian
civilization. An Armenian legion was organized 'to expel the Turks from
the entire southern shore of the lake in preparation for a concerted
Russian drive into the Bitlis vilayet.'[162] Thousands of Armenians from
Mus and other major centers in the east began to flood into the new
Armenian state...By mid-July there were as many as 250,000 Armenians
crowded into the Van area, which before the crisis had housed and fed
no more than 50,000 people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.[163]"

[162] Hovannisian, "Road to Independence," p. 56; FOP 2488, nos. 127223 and
58350.

[163] BVA, Meclis-i Vukela Mazbatalari, debates of August 15-17, 1915;
Babi-i Ali Evrak Odasi, no. 175, 321, "Van Ihtilali ve Katl-i Ami,"
Zilkade 1333/10 September 1915.


Source: Hovannisian, Richard G.: Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918.
University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, p. 13.

"The addition of the Kars and Batum oblasts to the Empire increased the
area of Transcaucasia to over 130,000 square miles. The estimated population
of the entire region in 1886 was 4,700,000, of whom 940,000 (20 percent) were
Armenian, 1,200,000 (25 percent) Georgian, and 2,220,000 (45 percent) Moslem.
Of the latter group, 1,140,000 were Tatars. Paradoxically, barely one-third
of Transcaucasia's Armenians lived in the Erevan guberniia, where the
Christians constituted a majority in only three of the seven uezds. Erevan
uezd, the administrative center of the province, had only 44,000 Armenians
as compared to 68,000 Moslems. By the time of the Russian Census of 1897,
however, the Armenians had established a scant majority, 53 percent, in the
guberniia; it had risen by 1916 to 60 percent, or 670,000 of the 1,120,000
inhabitants. This impressive change in the province's ethnic character
notwithstanding, there was, on the eve of the creation of the Armenian
Republic, a solid block of 370,000 Tartars who continued to dominate the
southern districts, from the outskirts of Ereven to the border of Persia."
(See also Map 1. Historic Armenia and Map 4. Administrative subdivisions of
Transcaucasia).

In 1920, '0' percent Turk.

"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as
ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work
of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village.
Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts
into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable
and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets
completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They
found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border
into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole
length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to
Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain
plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of
Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for
howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the
scattered bones of the dead."

Ohanus Appressian
"Men Are Like That"
p. 202.


"An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the
systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of
the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at
least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The
memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and
eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in
1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound."
(Rachel A. Bortnick - The Jewish Times - June 21, 1990)


1."Men Are Like That" by Leonard A. Hartill, Bobbs Co., Indianapolis,
1926

Memoirs of an Armenian Army Officer translated to English and
published by a member of American "Near East Relief Organization."
Gives the whole account of the genocide of all Turkish and Moslem
people in Armenia organized and executed by Armenian Government and
Army. Also gives account of countless other massacres and atrocities
against the Turkish people in Armenia.

2."Adventures in the Near East, 1918-22" by A. Rawlinson,
Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925

Eyewitness account of the same genocide by a British Army Officer.

3."World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn,
Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952

Another eyewitness account of the same genocide by an American
Officer.

4."From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne" by Avetis Aharonian,
The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17
(Spring 1964)

Memoirs of the chief Armenian delegate to the Paris Peace Conference
were published in the Armenian Review Magazine in 13 articles from
Volume 15 (Fall 1962) to Volume 17 (Spring 1964). These memoirs
include an interview between Aharonian and British Foreign Minister
Lord Curzon in which above-mentioned genocide was discussed. The
official report mentioned by Lord Curzon is the report of British
High Commissioner to Caucasia, Sir Oliver Wardrop.


'We closed the roads and mountain passes that
might serve as ways of escape for the Turks
and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
(Ohanus Appressian - 1919)
'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists
a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920)

LEV the ignit
 

People that dont read dont travel are =RED NECKS like this ASS HOLE since he does not know shit about shit. By shooting the movie in TR it shows freedom of speech + You think that you can say anything any where in the US you dumm ass they will have your ass in the sling down in CUBA in a heart beat :) :thumbsup

My man travel + read aducate your dumm ass before posting stupid shit. :pimp

Freedom of Speech my ass in the US and in EU

i gotta see this movie!

sounds like one to add to the emule queue

100...........

bad times


Mr. Romance

Please ...ignorant? You my Turkish friend take the cake. First, the Turks killed the Armenians (Yes, 1.5 million) not just because of land, but to clean ALL non-musilims from the area. The Turks killed them because they were Christians. The Ottoman Empire often tried to push into EU and were turned back the last time by a guy named Vlad the Impaler. (the real Dracula)

Learn your fucking history and don't point fingers and say shit because your ancestors were just as vilolent.