Have you ever heard me saying anything else than a site being worthless unless it makes sales?

No skim site, tracking clicks on all links, 190% prod? Can it be anything else BUT shitty? Come on...

Always been made up.

Finally? :) Just because I chose to exploit the possibility of fast cash on earlier occasions doesn't mean that I don't realize the long-term benefit of treating the customers the way they should be treated.

What a coincidence, so do I. Given your above comments, was this some kind of argument against my point, or were you trying to agree with me? :)

Wrong. Those sites do make profits. Just not as big as other types of sites, but in terms of ROI they're great.

Build some, wise guy. :winkwink:

Being that we know only one company who holds the bigger part of the market on brokering paid spots, we don't need to name any names. We can always point fingers to GTS though. :1orglaugh

No skim site, tracking clicks on all links, 190% prod? Can it be anything else BUT shitty? Come on...

where do you get this above info?

and I have built many big sites ;)

I'm pretty sure that's what was posted in the sales thread, but I somehow can't seem to locate that now, so I will retract that comment since I can't seem to prove what I based it on.

And the point I was trying to make was... your now speaking about skim sites are bad, stop tricking your surfers you say.. but are you not the guy who sold skim sites to customers buying high number sites.

I recall icqing you in hope you could make me a big text site, but you said you could only build me a thumb site with skim.

but I really think it all depends what your trying to accomplish to skim or not too, there are a million ways to make money.

hmm I wasn't tracking any links at all :)

but its all good, the critism hurts but it only makes a man stronger, I've done it for years, its about time someone shot some truth at me. I'll be sure to ask your advice again after I am done with it.

So how are those mutually exclusive? :)

I believe I told you that I only took on thumb preview projects, as text sites would require too much time and money and few would be prepaired to pony up for such a project. I have never said I COULDN'T grow text sites.

Agreed, and as you can read above I said that skimming sites also make a profit. I just don't see that model as a viable long-term one.

I believe I told you that I only took on thumb preview projects, as text sites would require too much time and money and few would be prepaired to pony up for such a project. I have never said I COULDN'T grow text sites.

that is correct. :)

It's not only about the amount of hits to the site, but also about the productivity. A decent no-skim TGP sends way more traffic to galleries than most skim TGPs.

there is no money is no-skim sites... nothing to see here folks, move along...

50........

Yeah, yeah, what do you know? :winkwink:

People pay for being listed on high-traffic sites, it's an honor. :1orglaugh

51......

My vote goes for skim free as usual. It takes more time and work to develop a clean site like that nowadays but worth it in the long run.

Hey Brujah... :1orglaugh :helpme

people let me know when the network is up.. becouse i want to join
:)

You do realize that sending traffic to trades from hardlinked thumbs isn't really skim free, right? It's more like trading totally blind traffic. :)

ICQ me, 1566665.

interesting thread, I think the skim is high because of the ads that sites run, either they run Amateurmatch or Adultfriendfinder or they pretty much just run hosted galleries. But they make enuff from galleries and the ad spots that it doesn't matter.

I think we'll see some sort of change happen, since the thumb sizes now are gigantic, so we're due for something different.

The problem arises because you have people building sites who have little to no knowledge of how to create, build and run a business, running websites or driving traffic.

It's obvious there are three kinds of surfers. The ones who buy porn, the ones who might and the ones who will never buy. But they are all counted the same as clicks and traffic.

So trade 50% of them to this guy, who sends 50% back, who again trades 50% with another guy and so on. Look at it from the view of the three surfer types.

Buyer. Fuck this I want to see what raised my dick and find out more.

Possible Buyer. Fuck this I want to see what raised my dick and find out more. But WHT it's more free porn.

Free Surfer. More free porn. :thumbsup

Think of it from the TGP owner. I have 100,000 surfers going through my site every hour. :thumbsup

Problem is to open a TGP site without trades takes money, skills and hard work. Much better to short cut the process and just tell the submitters how many clicks I have.

I laugh when people tell me they have to have the content that is inside the site, otherwise the member WILL get upset and might charge back. Plus a guy falls in love with the girl he sees on gallery.

They then submit to a TGP that spins surfers around the Internet. :upsidedow

I see running a paysite has helped you understand traffic better. :thumbsup

Nothing to do with traffic, it's basic business knowledge. Just applied it to traffic. :winkwink:

As did I. :)

I don't skim a single hit on any of my sites... And like I've told people before: A network of non-skim sites doing a total of 100k a day beats the hell out of a 250k a day skim TGP/MGP.

:thumbsup

And I'm sure you are being generous. I wouldn't trade my 65k no-skim TGP for a 300k skim TGP.

Let the skimmers skim. they'll just end up killing themselves off in the end and there will be more traffic for everyone else :)

Skimming is very short term fast buck thinking imo... as the internet evolves, surfers wont stand for shit like that and will find something better by either searching for it or hearing about it from someone else.

I don't know, skimming has been going on for 10+ years, think it's gonna die any time soon? :)

slavery was around for a long time too. but that's gone now...We need an Abraham Lincoln of TGP's :1orglaugh

Let me know as well when you start your no skim project DamageX, I'm interested.
And I really hope more people would start to make no skim sites.
I also think text sites would be much better as all those big thumbs sites.
Think of it for 2 seconds....anyone from any country will click a thumb but good luck having that surfer understand your sales pitch on the gallery if he doesn't understand the language.
Whereas with text sites, if the surfer does not speak the language the descriptions are written with, he is less likely to start clicking everything, you weed out a ton of non productive traffic that way and have better chances to make some sales.
Just my 2 cents

PS: if any of you guys have real no skim sites that send a good amount to galleries, we would be happy to have you on board with Submitpasses...we really do believe that traffic from these sites have a very good value, that's why sites like Pinkworld, Elephant List and etc are often sold out :thumbsup

I'm also interested in any sort of no skim co-op. I have a very modest offering but I've recently played around with the layout and have managed to get the prod above 600%, with a trade return of 78%. Now I just need more traffic. :1orglaugh

rowan and Devilporn, the fun begins sooooooooon :winkwink:

I've got a few no skim sites as well I'm frequently looking for trades on.

bump for an interesting thread :thumbsup

surfers are by now used to not getting what they want when they click.

Well since you bumped the thread.. I've personally been raising the skim on one of my sites. It's currently set at 80% skim and at 50k + or - on any given day. I hope to be 100% no skim on that site in 3 months with the same traffic levels.

Great post!
Here are my 2 cents.
No skim takes a lot of time and money to build to a big site (at least 50k no skim)
However, with that same time and money one can easily build a 300-400k a day network between a few sites that skim. In my experience I have found that #s are king, because you can feed, slowly lower skim, build better network of contacts, and most likely make more money if you know how to market well on your site.

I takes a TON of money to get from 0-100k non skim today. And to go from 0-250k will cost you a few hundred bucks (maybe a grand max).

Hey i'll give yea 2k to get me 250k a day on one of my skim sites. :winkwink:

where do you buy your traffic from?