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-   -   Making Millions In Adult - One Man's Story (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=634543)

woj 07-25-2006 03:52 PM
250......... :glugglug

will76 07-25-2006 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpv
First off I know sales can be made with popups. I have done it. But you should know how bad they convert. It takes massive traffic just to get enough sales to survive on..
What are you talking about here. That makes no sense. I am not talking about BUYING exit traffic from brokers. I am talking about using pop ups off of my existing traffic. This is like a bonus, it is 100% free for me to put a popup off of my page that i am advertising. So what do i care if it converts 1:2000 or 1:10,000 if i make $1,000 this week from having that pop up page there that is 1,000 more then what i would have had at NO extra expense to me. So don't know what you mean by " it takes massive traffic just to get enough sales to survive on". All the sales i get from it is a bonus.

jpv 07-25-2006 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by will76
I agree. .....

JPV you go on and on how rebilling membership is ok because you make it clear to people when they signup that it will rebill. Same exact thing could be said for cross sales with a box pre checked. If it says to uncheck the box if you don't wont it, how is that any different then saying you will need to cancel when you don't want your membership anymore. At least with the cross sales they can uncheck it and be done with it. With a rebilling site they *usually* have to do a lot more to get their membership cancelled.

So basically it is ok to offer 1 if you plainly state what you are doing but it is not ok to offer the other if you plainly state what you are doing.

Let me make this simple for everyone... I LIKE SIMPLICITY! SO DO CUSTOMERS. So the less shit there is the more I like it. A lesson I learned from google. I like a clean join page with the least amount of confusion. I like the most important things stated to SELL the customer and to warn the customer WHAT HE IS BUYING.

Cross sales do not fit into this and neither do popups.

Show me numbers from a site who buys cross sales and show me their credit/charge back ratios now while buying those cross sales and compare it to when they do not buy cross sales. Then the argument will be settled. Until then you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

will76 07-25-2006 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Downtime
quick synopsis: stop spending your entire work day at GFY

yes and there is no such thing as a "work day" if you want to make good money, you need to be prepaired to work day and night.

Some people can have something fall into their lap that makes good money and requires little time, but it will not last long. And that is rare. If you want to make good money and sustain it, you need to be prepaired to WORK 60 - 80 hours a week.

jpv 07-25-2006 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by will76
What are you talking about here. That makes no sense. I am not talking about BUYING exit traffic from brokers. I am talking about using pop ups off of my existing traffic. This is like a bonus, it is 100% free for me to put a popup off of my page that i am advertising. So what do i care if it converts 1:2000 or 1:10,000 if i make $1,000 this week from having that pop up page there that is 1,000 more then what i would have had at NO extra expense to me. So don't know what you mean by " it takes massive traffic just to get enough sales to survive on". All the sales i get from it is a bonus.
My point is ho bad it converts. If the main page of my site gets 100,000 visitors per day and 30% (I don't know the current day percentage who gets popups. so you will need to let me know) see a popup. If 30% is the case then 30,000 go to the popup and I might make 3-6 sales per day??? This is my point why would I put a popup on a paysite tour page that get 100,000 visitors and is pulling around 120-140 sales per day? All for 6 sales???

These are not my numbers btw :winkwink:

will76 07-25-2006 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagwolf
If your goal is not to upset anyone, you're doomed to failure. There will always be whack jobs out there who'll come up with a problem out of the blue, no matter what you do.

my goal is to make money, legally. I have never screwed / scammed anyone. I am also not here to try to make everyone happy either.

I find it funny the post here from a few people going back and forth about not trying to do anything to upset the surfer but yet when the topic of rebills come up, you get the "it doesn't upset anyone" and other back peddling, double talk, etc... from them.

I am all for rebills, popups, etc. just don't try to come across as being almighty and i am some shady guy cause i use a pop up, when you use rebills. Rebilling is more of a hassle, annoying, etc.. to the surfer then popups, is there 1 person here willing to say otherwise (besides jpv). If you really want to come across as being a surfer friendly site and not want to upset anyone you would offer 2 options to join, a rebilling option and a non rebilling option.

ParlourCash Karl 07-25-2006 05:15 PM
Great Reading

vvq 07-25-2006 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpv
You are way off base here. First of all I did not say trials are bad. I am against the business model which uses trials to attract affiliates who don't know shit about marketing. They send traffic and see nice conversions... AND paysite use that volume of affiliate traffic to hit surfers with popups, pre checked cross sales, and high rebill costs for a poor members area. I don't agree with the ENTIRE business model. Trials alone are fine. My point is use none of those and create a solid product FOR the customer and you can make MORE MONEY. The return customers are amazing.

And where did I say all trials are tricky? My site does not use trials but it does rebill. I just spent all day defending how honest sites show a member will be rebilled. I am AGAINST THE SITES who are NOT UPFRONT about it.

Don't tell me paysite sites need a great members area to get surfers to stay from the trial. Look at many PPS sites and compare them to karups, twistys, atk, and other sites like these. Many members areas are complete shit. I DO like the direction of nasty dollars, bangbros, perfect gonzo and others with their members area. I like to see them using great content, regular updates, simple members area, and great bonuses to win over members. They are changing the way member areas are for the better in the PPS market. But I do wish these sites would uncheck their cross sales.

Also for your comment "By not offering a low trial option, you're saying you don't want these peoples business, and for no real reason." You are very right. I don't want those customers. I am not looking to add a limited trial model to my site and I am defintely not going to let members join my site for $1 and download my whole damn members area. Visitors to my site asked if I had a trial so they can see it and I emailed them back and told them what I just told you... Most join anyways after reading my response.

You are putting words in my mouth. You are arguing about things I did not say.
I apologize if I came off too strong or seemed insulting. It was not my intent. Running your own paysites without an affiliate program is a lot different than running ones for an affiliate program.

I don't understand how a site can not be upfront about rebills, cross sales, and cancelations. Billing processors and credit card companies have policies. This isn't the wild west anymore. You have to maintain very low CB/CR percentages. I don't know how to better guage how unhappy customers are with a site than the sites CB/CR percentages.

jpv 07-25-2006 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvq
I apologize if I came off too strong or seemed insulting. It was not my intent. Running your own paysites without an affiliate program is a lot different than running ones for an affiliate program.

I don't understand how a site can not be upfront about rebills, cross sales, and cancelations. Billing processors and credit card companies have policies. This isn't the wild west anymore. You have to maintain very low CB/CR percentages. I don't know how to better guage how unhappy customers are with a site than the sites CB/CR percentages.
I agree. The billing regulations helped to clean things up. Some people are picking just one word out of my article and debating it. I knew this was going to happen but it as meant as a whole. Taking someting out of context is really hard to defend. I don't have problems with alot of things debated so far. Many issues are very complicated and what makes them complicate is there are no hard numbers to compare. It is all guesses.

But my issue is if I have seen EVIDENCE a customer does not want something then I will not give it to them. I have not seen evidence about the rebilling. MY SITE is upfront about it and maybe that is why. I honestly don't know but I am not going to stop using a standard way of billing a subscription site because rebilling was abused in the past.

I have seen evidence people do not like popups and there is alot of evidence popups are hated by tgp/mgp visitors. Yeah alot of these visitors are freeloaders but many purchase memberships still if you can show them something they like... If not today then maybe tomorrow.

I have also seen evidence of members seeing free content advertising a site and surfer joining a site to see more of that set or girl and can't find it. Marketing sites with 3rd party content which is not in the site has a HUGE negative effect on customers. This is a major reason for bad rebills in many PPS programs who allow other content to promote their sites.

I have not seen any evidence on cross sales so my statements on that are simply my feelings about them. I have no hard numbers but from my experience in this business I choose not to use them. I don't agree with them based only on that not hard evidence.

jpv 07-25-2006 06:52 PM
I have had fun debating these issues but I think I have said all I can say. I really want to get some discussions going on some of my other more interesting subjects in my article. I need a day off from this board. I think it is mealting my brain. I will be back in a day or so and hopefully we can get some other topics going.

I am glad many of you enjoyed the article.

Thanks

will76 07-25-2006 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpv
Wait a minute. I never said rebilling never had a dark past. I am here trying to say I want to clean up the industry. I am clear that memberships renew and members can cancel at any time. I have a cancel link even on my main ligin page for my affiliate. If you are saying all rebilling is about scamming then you are wrong. I don't care how dark it was in the past. I am NOT a part of those tactics now. I am upfront as possible. Like I said many times my members who stay months email me and say they would like to cancel and they will be back in a few months. Most seem to be fine with this. I have had very few cases of members saying they did not want to be rebilled so I had to give them a credit..


My "facts, beliefs, proof" or what ever you want to call it comes from about 4 years of owning, running, and advertising my own membership sites and membership sites i created for others. I have about the same amount of time as being a membership site owner as i do just advertising. Over 7 years being full time doing this, which would be about 14 years for most people since i work about 60 - 80 hours a week on average. I've owned and opperated a site similar to voyeur dorm. I have my basis of information to go on from my personal experiences, and in general COMMON SENSE. if you think 100% of the people who rebill on your site wanted to rebill , then you are a fool. I can guarantee you that people will be billed time and time again that forgot about it, or didn't know about it. Some might not contact you, they might just cancelled and have the attiitude " damn i got screwed again by rebilling porn site!" and that might be the last time that pushed them over the top and you screwed up a potential sale for one of us here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpv
I DO get alot of emails from members who join my site and ask me to make sure their membership does not rebill... And I make sure it does not. It is simple customer relation. I am not ripping anyone off. I am selling memberships.
Ok so you admit you do get a lot of emails from your members making sure they are not rebilled. SOOOO, obviously they are concerned about it. Why not show them how sincere you are about being the most upstanding adult site on the net and give them an option to signup that doesn't rebill. So they KNOW it wont happen.

What is the big deal why not error on caution and give them the option, or is it that you want to make money off of the people who forget and don't bother to contact you :winkwink:

Also yet to hear anyone agree with you on this point, so if someone who owns/owned a membership site can chim in i would love to know if others think I am off base or if they not buying your " members are happy with rebills" you doing them a service arguement.

will76 07-25-2006 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpv
I LIKE SIMPLICITY! SO DO CUSTOMERS. I like a clean join page with the least amount of confusion. I like the most important things stated to SELL the customer and to warn the customer WHAT HE IS BUYING.

Cross sales do not fit into this and neither do popups.
neither do rebilling memberships.

So you like simplicity ? What is more simple:

Click Here to Join for 30 days for $29.95

or

Click Here to Join for 30 days for $29.95, at the end of 30 days your membership will rebill unless it is cancelled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpv

I like the most important things stated to SELL the customer and to warn the customer WHAT HE IS BUYING.
Ok so you like to warn him, so then your site must look like this"


Click Here to Join for 30 days for $29.95, at the end of 30 days your membership will rebill unless it is cancelled. you will need to click the link "cancel my membership" in my members area to cancel your membership. You need to be careful not to let your membership rebill if you don't want it to..

Why feel the need to WARN them about something that you are doing? Seems like an admission of guily to me. Instead of warning them, and having to include all that shit, why don't you keep it simple and do this"

1 month memberhip ONLY $29.95
1 month membership (REBILLS) $29.95

A lot more simple to me and you giving them a CHOICE not forcing their hand.

will76 07-25-2006 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpv
My point is ho bad it converts. If the main page of my site gets 100,000 visitors per day and 30% (I don't know the current day percentage who gets popups. so you will need to let me know) see a popup. If 30% is the case then 30,000 go to the popup and I might make 3-6 sales per day??? This is my point why would I put a popup on a paysite tour page that get 100,000 visitors and is pulling around 120-140 sales per day? All for 6 sales???

These are not my numbers btw :winkwink:
if you have 100K people hit your site you should have close to 100K that get the pop up, if you using the right pop up code :winkwink:

on pop ups more like 1:2000 from my personal numbers. but i will use your exact numbers above for this example.

FIRST OF ALL, if you know how to use a popup they will not get it till they LEAVE your site, so the pop up will not take away from any of your sales. You kinda making it sound like when they leave your tour they will get hit and this will affect your 120 sales a day. Using a prior analogy I made, that would be like in the middle of having them look at the sony TV (and they are interested in it) i pull them away to show them something else. You never want to distract you surfers attention, ESPECIALLY on signup pages. Here is some advice to me to everyone else that doesn't know this. DO NOT PUT LINKS on your signup page. You got them to the signup page, why give them an option to leave. Say they liked a girl or movie or something, and you got them, they want it, they click to signup, and then you have more links off to the side and they see something that gets their attention and they are off again, there is a good chance you lost them.

Back to your example. So taking into accout what i said above, why would you want to show them a exit page when they are leaving if it gets you only 6 sales a day?

simple.

I have about 110,000 REA$ON$ why. I dont care if you make 2 million year, $110,000 is still $110,000.

(assuming you average $50 a signup (inital+rebillis) x 6 a day x 365 days = about $110K a year) Double that amount if your site rebills as good as you talk here.

will76 07-25-2006 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpv
I DO get alot of emails from members who join my site and ask me to make sure their membership does not rebill...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpv
But my issue is if I have seen EVIDENCE a customer does not want something then I will not give it to them.



:Oh crap :upsidedow :upsidedow

will76 07-25-2006 10:36 PM
sorry i tend to get carried away :Oh crap

I hope i at least helped someone from all of that posting.

take your break, i need one two, meet you in couple days for round two. lol jk.

nice of you to write that article i am sure it helped people if nothing else give them a little inspiration. I just disagree with you on a few points.

I bet i could add a clickcash exit page to your site and make you about 300K a year if your traffic is even remotely close to what you mentioned in the examples above. :winkwink:

BV 07-25-2006 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by will76
neither do rebilling memberships.

So you like simplicity ? What is more simple:

Click Here to Join for 30 days for $29.95

or

Click Here to Join for 30 days for $29.95, at the end of 30 days your membership will rebill unless it is cancelled.



Ok so you like to warn him, so then your site must look like this"


Click Here to Join for 30 days for $29.95, at the end of 30 days your membership will rebill unless it is cancelled. you will need to click the link "cancel my membership" in my members area to cancel your membership. You need to be careful not to let your membership rebill if you don't want it to..

Why feel the need to WARN them about something that you are doing? Seems like an admission of guily to me. Instead of warning them, and having to include all that shit, why don't you keep it simple and do this"

1 month memberhip ONLY $29.95
1 month membership (REBILLS) $29.95

A lot more simple to me and you giving them a CHOICE not forcing their hand.
Actually Paycom & CCBill both require warnings of this nature to be placed on the site AND it's actually built into their secured signup forms. You can't get rid of it.

quiet 07-31-2006 03:51 AM
who is this 'Q' person everyone keeps talking about?

Roald 07-31-2006 05:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quiet
who is this 'Q' person everyone keeps talking about?
That would be me :winkwink:

Roald 07-31-2006 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpv
lol. At least I have you fooled ;) You are one of my few affiliates but you have not started sending traffic yet. We exchanged a few emails recently.
No shit huh, damn still no idea. Guess I am getting to much emails daily ;)))

X37375787 07-31-2006 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quiet
who is this 'Q' person everyone keeps talking about?
You fuckin tease. :upsidedow

quiet 08-09-2006 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuaShe
That would be me :winkwink:
now it all makes sense.

X37375787 11-10-2006 12:44 AM
Bump for a great thread!

Geraldo 11-10-2006 02:07 AM
congrats to the winners79545

AV9898 11-10-2006 03:22 AM
very great and thanks for sharing

Zebra 11-10-2006 05:23 AM
I'm sure you have a similar story marc :)
I remember making some crazy money with you back in the day and you've always seemed to keep your head above water. :thumbsup

mb 11-20-2006 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebra (Post 11285393)
I'm sure you have a similar story marc :)
I remember making some crazy money with you back in the day and you've always seemed to keep your head above water. :thumbsup

Thanks for the kind words :-) You are one of the very first people I ever did business with in this industry. I have tons of respect for you my friend.

hit me up on icq one day to catch up

24142711

marc

tehHinjew 11-20-2006 11:51 PM
wow truely insperational

grape 09-04-2007 04:11 AM
mucho info thread thanks

Angie77 09-04-2007 08:25 AM
wow thanks for sharing.

djroof 09-04-2007 08:57 AM
it's my story....

Flynn 09-04-2007 09:20 AM
This is a good thread to bump.

st0ned 09-04-2007 09:43 AM
Interesting article, I got stuck on it for a while. I will write mine in 1-2 years :)

grape 09-04-2007 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flynn (Post 13030881)
This is a good thread to bump.
yes it should be bumped every month

xmas13 09-04-2007 02:12 PM
Nice story.

cartelcash_roupen 09-04-2007 02:26 PM
great story, inspirational and makes me think about how to expand my biz

AutumnBH 02-02-2021 08:10 PM
This was an excellent thread.

Those were the days...

rowan 02-02-2021 10:03 PM
There's probably a version without all the broken images, but for a quick catchup, this should do:

https://web.archive.org/web/20090201...llionaire.com/

(ibill is mentioned as a reputable biller...)

12clicks 02-05-2021 07:56 AM
more people should have listened to me.............


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