Bottom line is affiliates have to be more professional about the performance and return on their investment. Their time and money worked and traffic produced.

They have to look at how much they earn per hour or day sending traffic to site A as opposed to site B. They also need to be concerned with the long term growth of this industry. Will sending traffic to a site that over rewards them and shaves the surfer actually harm them more in the long run?

Our site performs well enough and I'm looking at how to make it perform better, this performance is always related to the surfer, not the affiliate, because I believe long term that's in the best interest of the affiliate.

My new sites will be a little different and at the beginning I wil not be able to offer an attractive payout to affiliates. When we prove the value of the sign ups I might have an affiliate program that is by invitation only, but only when it's proved.

Until that time do I rely on peoples trust of me to do the right thing and add the profit from the new sites to the affiliates rev share and PPS or do I do nothing or do I generate the traffic to the sites 100% myself?

I'm on holiday and will check back later.

This one of the reasons I don't promote CCBill aff programs. If it's only CCBill, you can loose the sale because of high scrubbing (which happens very often), no matter if there is another processor or not. I stick with programs that use 3 processors in cascade and give credit to affiliate for the sale. Ratios are already shitty, there's no need to make them shittier because CCBill scrubs more or less.
Fuck 60%, 70% or I-don't-know-what percentage, all that matters is how many $/click I get. My asset is the "click", and I want to make the most bucks for it.

Dude, no offense, but you should give up running your paysite if it's so hard...or stop whining about it. Is your affiliates' problem that is hard or you don't know shit about HTML?

Nice attitude Mr. Markham...you were caught with the Mach 3 in your hand and you're bashing affiliates to be more professional...very professional of you, you're a real stand-up program owner. I'll jump on promoting your program right now...maybe not.

huh? I actually recently signed up to your program as the content looks fantastic. BUT after reading this, there's not a chance i'd promote it.
How can anyone justify what is essentially shaving? I don't gaf about higher payouts if in the long run I missout on sales.

Let's just think about this for a minute - get 65% for joins and miss a few joins to another biller OR get all your joins at 50 to 55% hmmmm i'll take all joins thanks.

You must have a paysite and make a shitload of sales if you have these scrubbing numbers. But in real world, ccbill and paycom scrub very similar, paycom a little more at the moment. Its just a few % you lose due to unfair scrubbing, other reasons are chargebacks, no cash, etc. So if your ratios with ccbill only sponsors suck, its the paysites you promote, its your marketing methods, its not ccbill. Start blaming yourself, or you will never be successful.

I don't think you read my post.

Myself and anybody with common sense will call it shaving....I'm in the same boat as you with one small site with ccbill and I can understand how you might need extra money to supplement your ccbill sales...But putting another link on the joinpage isn't the answer.

Sounds all very rational. Except it isn't...

I wouldn't argue with you that cascading is a better option than a single processor, but I haven't seen anyone getting rich since its appearance (except perhaps for the companies selling the software). That's because the number of rejections which are conceivably a result of one processor's specific algorithms is tiny: I have seen 1% quoted by a lady who used to be a regular here and did/does work for a processor. That claim makes sense if you look at the actual reject levels (not merely the number of failed transactions) in the way that Brujah describes in this thread.

So let's say sponsors who only process with CCBill do lose 1% of their sales. That's not good news, but it's a damn poor reason to reject them all out of hand. How long a list do you want of all the things you and your sponsors can do to affect your income by a lot more than 1%?

You say, like every smart webmaster should, that you are only interested in $/click, but I'm curious to know how you can be sure you are earning the most you could be, if you arbitrarily exclude 100's of sponsors from consideration. And if that really were your concern, why should you care if someone has a damn great "don't click the button with the affiliate code" notice on his page, providing you still make your $/click?

I think Paul is wrong, but only because of perception. If he did the usual and sent surfers to a secondary processor after a CCBill rejection, he wouldn't have suffered the negativity in a thread like this. It's ironic that because he was upfront about his secondary processor (and he is far from being the only sponsor who is), he is taking heat.

You can't have it both ways. Either you go the "scientific" route, calculating who gives you the most return for the real estate you devote to promoting them, or else you worry about the specifics of how their practises might impact on your results.

I should give up eh? Let put some stats where your mouth is... Show me your's I'll show you mine. I'll tell you right now that I have over 780 ACTIVE members. Billing at 34.95 a month... take out the 13% processor. and you'll get an idea of what the site generates. Affiliates account for 15% of those sales. of that 15% I pay out 50% of the sale PLUS 13% to processor for a total of 63% Plus remove costs for keeping the site up etc, Lets just say 5% so now the numbers 68% making me a profit of 32%.

By my numbers exactly how important are the affilaites to my site? I'm a fetish site. People with my fetish find me. An absolute shitload of my content is floating around the net with my watermark on it. Sure some from the affilaites, but a bulk of it from members taking stuff from the site and posting elsewhere... word of mouth advertising. You would be amazed at the number of people I have talked to that find out what I do. Then they go on to tell me about this video of a girl pushing a full sized football out of her pussy... Only for me to show them that it was me that made that video.

So go ahead, test me. You go out right now and start surfing the web. I would like you to locate a few things for me. All extreme fetish, all real and all with a following of dedicted members.

1. REAL female belly inflation
2. REAL female triple fisting. (that's 3 fists in one pussy incase your unsure)
3. REAL huge toy fucking. And I'm not talking about that stupid "rambone" dildo, anyone can fuck that retarded toy. I'm talking toys as big around as a wine bottle or bigger.

Chances are, I have either produced it, or at one time shot with the people that did.

IF you can find me a site that directly compares with mine, that I have not worked with or provide more extreme content than (And by extreme I mean larger toy fucking. Here's an example...

http://www.extremehole.com/gfy/bigtoy.jpg
)

And show me that that site has provided the member at least 400+ HOURS of this content in the members area, Plus 100,000 Picture of this type of content, all exclusive. I will paypal you 500 bucks. if you can't show me another... Then promote me and make yourself some money. Simple test... come on, it should be easy for you since you know so much about the web...

Whining? Na, WTF do I care that I don't know Html, Unix etc.. designers are a dime a dozen, server supports provided by the host. I can pay someone for the rest as I need it done. Updating and content creation. I'm all over that.

My sites had a steady membership these last 5 years. What worries me is that I would open up a great affiliate program and my content would become saturated in a very short time. I'm looking for longevity not a quick buck. As I read more and more here and see all the affilaites bashing this program and that program whining about this, begging for that. I can tell you that if I ever do get MPA3 running over at anotherprogram.com it will be by invite only. I'm not one to sit here and beg you to make yourself money. You most likely don't have the correct type of traffic to send me, if you did, you would be doing it by now as there are very few people that can provide the kind of content I have.

So, Bring it on. I have offered 500 bucks cash. show me that I'm wrong.

We need to be made aware of more sponsors that are cheating. Do you understand now dipshit? :1orglaugh

No

bottomline is we shouldnt have to wait and tell you youre scamming. Oh and who decides that the paymonde sales arent worth mentioning? Post stats and let affiliates decide.

I state VERY clearly on the Affilaite signup page "Earn a 50% commission on every Ccbill signup and all rebills thereafter."

It's right at the top. I'm not hiding anything. How much clearer could it be.. should I make it flash and dance around? People are just pissing about the little things. The amount of sales gotten by the other processors is so little that I don't even check the stats. And since the affiliates account for so little of the actual membership my site has it's really a non issue with me. Like I have said before and will say again. I have my affilaite program setup the way I WANT IT. if you don't like it and can find the same stuff to promote then do so. Shaving? Nope. Giving the affiliate a chance to make money off the correct type of traffic. Yup. I'm not in the same boat as a lot of the other "sponsers" out there. They are fighting for affilaites because so many other sponsers have like content. My content is unique. Supply and demand.

I believe Pauls in the same boat, sure there's a lot of that type of stuff out there, but his stuff is beautiful and sells itself. Not many actually compare side by side. Affialites should be happy he's giving them a chance to promote it and make money of his amazing work.

Gerco

no matter how much you try to bend the rules, its stealing from ppl who promote you.

Almost no sales, basically not worth mentioning and more crap like that. Sure make 5 pages posts. Youre shaving and ppl hate it.

And that surviving quote is lame. Youre not some Robin Hood stealing from the rich only. Youre stealing from every affiliate and that sucks.

And, just to make it perfectly clear... Not ONE of my actively selling affilaites has EVER bitched about the current setup. Yet they have in a few cases been pushing steady traffic to me for 2 and even 3 years now. The Ones that tend to bitch are the ones that couldn't send a sale a day anyway. One affialite that I did try and set things up differently for... (And One of the only affililiates that came direclty from GFY) In which I provided a sepreate tour for with ONLY a ccbill signup couldn't send squat in traffic. Now it's a take it or leave it. Play by my rules or play somewhere else. Seems like a shitty attitude, but I'm sick of the all the want to be's on here that talk big and can't do shit.

WTF I just checked HOLY SHIT what else can you add there that wont credit affiliates?

paycom paymonde wts ccbill and password by phone

NICE. NOT.

What about programs that claim "Paying out XX% revshare on all sales" and then have cross sales on the joinforms (CCbill, Epoch) that you're never credited for?

They dont know

If you dont know what youre missing you wont miss it.

Export your aff base and let me email them theyre missing out on every sale thats not credited by ccbill and lets see who keeps promoting you.

Were not talkin bout xselling here. Totally different subject.

Is that an insult?

If that's what you believe then I'm not going to sit and get into a pissing match with you. Your free to promote whoever you like. My program is on my terms. If you don't like it. Tough. I dont need approval from anyone to tell me how to run my company. Other sponsors have let themselves gets caught up in this trap where the affilaites are the life blood of the company. In my case, they account for very little. Affilaites are not doing me favors. I'm allowing them to make something from my content and site. If I shut off the affiliate program completely right now.. I would still be around and doing just fine.

looks a lot better imho

LOL

how long you been in this biz? dude the 1% programs that run without affiliates do so because they dont have the time or wanna put effort in an aff prg.

If youre doing 99% direct sales then remove the aff program, logout here and never come back cause hey you dont affiliates now do you.

LOL! Whatever. If you have the traffic that fit my site you would promote it. Who else you going to send it to? Again, supply and demand.

No.

Were all this biz to make money. And sending it to your program means losing money. Plus there are a TON of other programs dealing with the same shit you have. Who are upfront and dont shave.

Go on... Show me these "TON" of other program with the same stuff I have... words.. just words.
Actually, try and show me one..

If it's in his TOS, thats the end of story IMHO. People check the box when they join that they've read and agree to the terms after all.

you have me all wrong. and you know why i won't have an affiliate program? because i don't want my stuff over saturated and i don't want to deal with the hassle of affiliates. i know its a lot of work but if you're going to have one, you gotta be ready for the work thats involved.

i don't want to promote oversaturated sites and i love the creative and unusual although the main problem i have with small programs is they often pop up and then close losing all your rebills. my first priority is making money, otherwise i have no reason to promote a site at all.

your site is unique for sure and that is something to consider when weighing out the pros and cons of a site/program. i wouldn't say most small programs are unique though, a lot of people seem to think they can spend a few thousand on non-exclusive content, pay ccbill 300 bucks to get an account and make a million with affiliates.

of course everyone has to make a profit, even affiliates. you really think affilites have it so easy? i've been doing the affiliate thing since 98 and its a very different world now compared to then. if you feel you have to use multiple processors without giving credit to affiliates why not just have them forwarded to the secondary processor after they fail on the first and not give the choice first off?

Dude

youre 39 come on where did you get your MBA? This is NOT gonna work out for you. When your top 10% affiliates read this youre done.

And no programs who run on 40-50% aff sales arent slaves to their aff. With a 700 active members base you should be thinkin about that.

ah so thats it

cause youre unique you can screw ppl. Wow thats a long term biz resolution.

Before you start promoting a new sponsor, you should learn everything about them. Look at every page on sites you're going to promote. Find out exactly how their billing works and what you get credited for. Find out if they have cross sales, and if you get credit for them.

Find out exactly what leaks their tours have (links to outside sites, email collection boxes, etc).

Look at what they do in terms of exits, including back button redirecting.
If you use any kind of popup blocker (including google toolbar), turn it off and surf every page on the tours. I don't use IE for my own browsing, but I look at every sponsor page with it because 65% of my traffic uses it.

I always do a test signup and look at the members area on each site I'm going to promote, especially with revshare programs. If you don't want to do test signups, ask your rep for a temp password. Never send traffic to a revshare program without seeing the members area.

Everyone should consider all of these aspects before choosing which programs to work with. You have to weigh the pros and cons of each program, there aren't any perfect ones out there. Don't be shocked or upset when affiliate programs have these downsides. They're usually not out to sneak anything past their affiliates. If a PPS program has a good payout, you may be more inclined to accept more leaks/alternate billers/exits/etc. Personally, I don't use any revshare programs that have leaks of any kind, exits I don't get credit for, cross sales I don't get paid for, or billers they don't pay me for. PPS is a different story. If a PPS makes me a good return per click (by my count), a few leaks are acceptable. PPS programs have to make X amount for every signup. Revshare programs don't.

If you have enough traffic, most % programs that have leaks will let you host your own tours where you can control exists and links.

Anyway that's just my :2 cents: about the smart thing to do before begining to promote an affiliate program. Especially revshare. It's well worth the time.

Yep, different subject, but same result to the affiliate's bottom line.

I always hear "Revshare rocks, revshare makes more money blabla".

Why do then so many Revshare programs (I know there are a few good ones out there, but I am obviously talking about the bad apples here) have to fuck over their affiliates by not paying out on all money made with the clicks sent by the affiliate? Why are they not paying on secondary billing options and (!) cross sales?

dying of age and getting murdered also has the same result.

would be nice if you stuck to the thread and not mention half the worlds problems. One problem at a time.

Didn't you claim to make 80 sales a day some time ago? Not that your numbers are bad, I could tell you a few PPS sponsors who are sponsors on GFY and have less members, so you still have my respect.

Thinkx, I have been doing this since 2001. Same site, same way. Steady membership. I survived the Ibill shit, I survived the Visa Mastercard changes. I have even survived the loss of the main attraction to the site. The site has not been updated in 1 year 6 months due to the loss of the main attraction, And even so, my membership has grown and retention has remainied the same. I'm now sitting on about 2 years worth of new content that I'm about to add to the site so it's not going anywhere anytime soon. I'm not a greedy bastard, I'm quite happy with the money I bring in from the site as it sits. Could it grow bigger, sure. But, at what cost? Oversaturation etc. I'm going to be setting up the new affilaite program over at anotherprogram.com for the current affilaites. and Invite only after that. Does that mean that I'm wrong in my current affilaite program, nope. I just wanted to be able to have a nicer looking program to go with the site as I redo it to show the new content thats about to be added. You run your stuff your way, I'll run mine myway.

What? When have I EVER claimed that I do 80 sales a day? I'm happy with 5-10 sales a day! lol.

hmm, maybe it was someone different, I thought I remember your program name from that thread(some discussion with xxxjay about sales/day)

Nope not me. I don't pretent to be something I'm not like a lot of people on this fourm. I let my work speak for itself. Who the hell would have to try and impress here? Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy GFY. I spend quite a bit of time on here every day reading the post, I think I have even posted some helpfull things from time to time but, basically I'm here cause I find it a nice break from everything else I do during the day.

It's like going ot the shows... I see all kinds of people talking big about this or that... Whatever. I'm a SHOW ME kind of person. Talk is truly cheap but on GFY it's on sale.

Sure. Dont shoot the messenger.

:thumbsup