No sir, it is not. Too much history, and Lars professes to be one of the most experienced people online. Doesn't leave much room for him being mislead.

AFF has been part of this scumware world for several years, and knows exactly what is going on. This is not the first time these issues have been brought to their attention.

AFF and their kind have been using this type of 'stealware'(branded by the New York Times) for a very long time. In fact they use to be much worse and advertising over the top of places like TheHun, Hoes.com, and many other high traffic spots on the web. I am talking about back in the Hotbar scumware days. Now it appears they are targeting their traffic a little more, and staying within their niche(s) now that Hotbar and 180solutions have merged to form Zango.

Let us not forget that the FTC even says these guys have paid big bucks for installs of trojans and other scummy software on page 9 of this $4,089,550.48 judgement.
http://ftc.gov/os/caselist/0423142/W...alJudgment.pdf
Your post says he shut it off. I assume this to be a mistake in your text as he basically says in his post that he is sympathetic and will attempt to look deeper into it, but will continue to use this scheme to steal competitors and affiliates traffic.

I guess you can bid on your pages to popup nothing. Sounds stupid, but would solve the problem.

Long read for some. You could just tell that AFF is stealing sales from its own affiliates, but doesn't feel bad about it, since you found a legal way.

Lars, while I am not usually one to tell someone more successful than me what to do, this is one of those rare occassions where I can see that between what Zango has fed you and what the lawyers are probably telling you, that you have been filled with grade A bullshit. I don't think you would intentionally spew such nonsense if someone hadn't convinced you that it is true.

Let's start with Zango: They don't have "willing customers", but rather people who have sold their souls so they could download a video or play a game. In many cases, people do not clearly understand what they are doing or the implications of that "click here to play" button. I looked at Zango's install, they are pretty detailed, but they are also doing it with the old "free ginzu steak knives" promotion. I can't think that anyone would willingly and directly install Zango without some other material benefit, and I personally don't think their material benefits are worth a lifetime of popup bullshit.

You also don't have to go far to find Zango listed as spyware, scumware,or malware. Searching google for "zango spyware" would get you a page like this: http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/p...x?id=453094136

Searching for Zango removal problems woudl get your this: http://www.411-spyware-remove.com/remove-zango/

Including:

[quote]# Zango is Adware more
# Zango monitors searches and websites visited more
# Zango displays ads while surfing more
# Zango may come bundled with other Malware more
# Zango may recreate, repair and update itself[quote]

You could have just consulted wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/180_Solutions

Now, I don't have to be a wizard to find these things, and I am sure that before you spent a "small part" of your advertising budget with these people, that you might have at least looked to see what they were about. Considering situations may have happened in the past, you would think that you wouldn't want to do business with a company that the subject of any number of FTC complaints.

Okay, well, let's say that you didn't take a minute before approving the check for Zango... but then you had to go through their system and bid, and no doubt you (or one of your minions) would have caught on that they were bidding FOR YOUR DOMAIN (.cams.com) to push out others. I would suspect that a little light might have come on in someone's head and realized that perhaps this is just paying a form of blackmail to keep people off your customers (and potential customers).

Okay, so now you have said "we ain't paying them no more"... now sexsearch is "borrowing" your customers.

The question is simple: WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? It is clear to me that Zango is engaging in an activity (trigger by domain) that could be interfering with a business relations (affiliate to sponsor) by presenting other offers in popup windows that cover the original site. While this does not "replace a cookie" for surfers going to AFF/Cams, it puts a valid and viable alternative marketplace to these surfers. If they are going to make only one purchase today, there is a huge potential that they will buy what they see first, not from the now buried affiliate window.

Get your lawyers off their asses and start the process. There is enough past cases that you could very validly ask zango to stop targeting your domain(s). Further, I would contact Sexsearch and say "hey guys, nice try... but you may be interfering in a business relationship, so you might want to stop buying zango keywords".

You may also want to put javascript or other on your pages triggered every few seconds to move the window that your program opens in to being the top window.... which would push zango's stuff to the rear.

Finally, you may want to open up any number of other domains to allow affiliates to send their traffic through different domains so as to avoid this type of situation. A new domain every week or two might be a nice way to allow us all to avoid trigger off zango's domain filters.

Remember Lars, domain filters most specifically hurt your business for typeins and return customers. When any of the millions of people with zango "happily" installed comes to your site, the very first thing they see isn't hot cam girls, but a sex search page (and if you are unlucky, they might also see a competitive cams page). Your ability to deal with your repeat customers is being impeded.

I trust that you will have a sit down with the lawyers and take some action before this pretty much forces all of the smaller affiliates to move away from your program(s).

Alex

SOrry, I just want to add this:

A "position statement" would require you to take a position. Your post was an "excuse statement" or a "I didn't have sex with that woman" statement. Position statement would involve things like:

"We will not buy any more traffic from any toolbar companies"
"We will not accept affiliates buying traffic from toolbars and sending it to us"
"We do not support or encourage malware, installware, spyware, or other"
"We will not do business with companies that purchase traffic from toolbar companies"
"We will take all legal action possible to protect the interests of our company and our valued affiliates".

Now, THOSE would be position statements...

Knock yourself out :)

Alex

More about the quality of Zango installs:

Interesting, isn't it?

Alex

AFF needs to do more than just cease buying PPC keywords from Zango - no doubt someone else will, under an affiliate account... so we're back at square one.

One solution may be to change their ToS to say that they will not pay for sales or clicks from *.sexsearch.com. I'd go a step further and not even accept the traffic.

in the end, any type of adware is bad for affiliates. if it weren't for affiliate sites they would have no keywords to pop ads from. it piggy backs on legit traffic. why should these guys get their ads over top of mine just because the user installed something? over writting cookies or not, its all unethical and basically theft in my opinion.

This sucks either way ;-(

How much does AFF pay a month to zango ?

We're still waiting for a real answer.

I think this is the real answer :2 cents:

you have your answer man.

AFF does use these tactics to steal your traffic and will continue to use them to steal your traffic. Why? because if they dont another company will, so atleast you can be safe in the knowledge that its AFF stealing from you.

What else do you want to know?

Ahh man that made me laugh for a good 2 minutes!! :thumbsup

Btw very nice posts Jayeff

I had a long post thought up, but I decided not to post it since a lot of people have said it better already.

This is simply not acceptable. It's like the cliche about jumping off a cliff because everyone is doing it. And ofcouse it's not just AFF..

I'll be moving my traffic far far away from AFF until they publicly state that they won't under any circumstances accept spyware traffic. And hopefully that they are working on a way of making sure no one is targeting their sites.

Donate this "recovered" income to webmasters, in the form of a lottery maybe or random bonuses.

At the end of the day, it is the same story that I have seen regularly in the 11 years I have been in the adult industry:
Fuck the surfer - In this case with shitware
Fuck the affiliate by screwing him with cash
And lets get fucking richer today - Fuck tomorrow.



Bet a new thread will be started soon offering an even larger amount of cash per sign up for AFF affiliates -

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Right on.

hahahaa..... i disagree completely.

he is not playing into thier hands. he is caught between a rock and a hard spot and in a move he will later regret, he posted a vague and ambiguous public statement drafted by attorneys after zango put the ball in their court by pointing the dirty end of the stick directly at them. the statement was not a "position statement" for the benefit of the industry. it was a position statement for future legal arguments and the first step in creating a defensible position should legal action ensue.

Send me all your dating traffic, no adware here.

Bingo !

Mate, i've been online for 10 years and i have grey hair.

I can't beleive you did this.
Big lack of judgement here my friend.

I mean, you're not broke :winkwink:
It's like shooting yourself in the foot mate.

AFF has been online for what ? 10 years or so ?
Anyways, whatever you do, keep the old links working as you'll piss off even more people.

I'm sure you'll loose some webmasters, also you might get a slowdown in webmaster signing in for your program.
Sad......
Just for a couple of bucks. Ain't worth it.


Now let me tell you this boys and girls.
Have you ever did something dumb in your life ?
I bet you did.
Don't play "Saint Mary" :1orglaugh

Suck tho, sucks Lars......

You know what ?
Your voice sounds like shit (radioshow) hehehehehehehehe but you're damn right !

Oh come on :1orglaugh
I hope you're not serious ?

I guess you'll get the Ferrari Lars huh ? :1orglaugh

All we ask is that you don't fuck up
That's it !
I don't want a Playstation3, nor a Ferrari.
All i want is tracked signups and right on time payments.
You'll keep my respect if you do this for sure (but you probably don't give a fuck about it :1orglaugh, joke mate)

I hope so! :winkwink:

Nah, it'll go towards more important things. Like expanding the world's largest collection of stupid hats.

zango sucks - jayeff rocks

I can't believe this thread isn't 20 pages long yet .

Lar's you're a fucking thief.

Anyone that runs a program as successful as yours would have to know what was happening.

You did this entirely to steal sales from your affiliates, so you wouldn't have to payout anything.

2 million paid out to zango to highjack your affiliates codes and tracking is alot easier on you than paying out god knows what in affiliate payouts.

You knew full well what you were doing.

Really? Lars paid TWO MILLION DOLLARS with this ad campgian...hard to believe...I guess fucking up 'average' surfer's computers is very profitable.

:upsidedow

Since anything is possible, you could be right. But you can hardly blame those who draw conclusions from the similarity of his responses to every issue of this type. What exactly leads you to the conclusion that the situation here is any different from that regarding stolen content or warez sites? Even if you ignore the past, you can hardly accuse Lars of being a champion of business ethics.

This is not looking good....

too bad I dont know any dating sponsor that converts like AFF. And anyone who says different, is a liar.

I was just saying that if they were to pay zango a good amount of $$ for whatever amount of time , they could run thier $105 payout promo's etc without worry paying out affiliates.

The 2 million was just a number , but I imagine with the price of clicks and the coverage of zango's network that it adds up the $$ very fast.

this is shaving
They are knowingly stealing affiliates signups and there is no " we didn't know , and now that we do , We feel bad but we're not going to stop "
That's straight up bullshit.

A company as big as AFF.... you dont think they have about 3 people that do nothing but analyze and acquire traffic?

The excuse that they bought the advertising but didnt know where it was coming from is laughable.

aaand thats thus!!!!

There are better ones, and I ain't no liar. I quit sending much traffic to AFF, and increased my sales.

This is disappointing for affiliates but you gotta remember. Don't shoot the messenger. This might not be a personal position of Lars. It's the position of the company. I'm thinking that Lars is saying what he's told to say.

I'm glad I'm not in his position. I've had to make integrity calls before and I'll tell ya what. Stale crackers with ketchup and oregano don't taste like pizza anymore after about a month. But then again, alot of affiliates trust me even more now.

I'd rather make less money, represent what I know is right, and earn longevity in this biz. :2 cents:

:thumbsup :thumbsup

Best advice/stance of the year :thumbsup

mad drama right here

Very good point man, RRED nailed it on that one

I suggested already in this thread, and i guess you missed it... why doesn't AFF buy only their own keywords and do a pop under blank page, or no page at all. This way they protect their keywords and NOT have a "bizarre collision" with their affiliates.

I do believe AFF is trademarked. Gator was sued by a couple trademarked companies a few years back and Gator lost. I am sure AFF with their team of inhouse attornies could sue Zango (and other ""adware"" companies) and win. I bet they would even settle without it going far.

Another option is for them to stop doing it. DatingGold did this. It is not like this is even going to put a dent in AFF's traffic. I know AFF thinks it is going to hurt them if they stop but I would bet anything they lose more in sales from affiliates dropping them because they support this shit, then what they could possibly lose from no "adware" sales. This isn't like a pimpdog belief that even bad news makes you money. While some fools might signup to trey's sites because they think he is cool, I don't see AFF stating that they support adware generating them any new affiliates.

AFF is the best dating site, and Cams is in the top 5. They could run with this and blaze the trail for the rest of us. Not only would they be giving a little something back to the industry and affiliates that make them over 100 million a year in sales, but they would actualy make more money because who wouldn;t want to promote them if they took these companies on and helped protect all of us. :2 cents:

I am new to the biz and a small fish, but I am pulling aff of my network because I work too hard to get traffic to my sites to have even 1 visitor sucked away. You don't care, I am sure, if I run your ads or not, but I care about who I do business with. While you can hide behind the "everyones doing it" excuse, your money would be better spent finding technology to prevent your partners from getting fucked over.

Please spam this thread with other dating sites because I am in the market. I don't care if they don't convert as well as aff either.

zango made 50 million in 2004. How much do you think they are making now ?