You have my sigwhore bumping to thank for that :2 cents:

Why isnt that whore Missie all over this?

OK, what programs are using Zango? Is there a list in a thread here? I'm dropping every dam sponsor using it.

1. Lars does nothing, ignores Zango - Affiliates lose sales, Lars loses sales - Zango wins

2. Lars buys spots - Affiliates lose sales, Lars recoups some lost traffic (and can afford nice bonuses) - Zango wins

3. Suggested by Will - Lars buys "blank" pops - Affiliates gain on sales but lose on bonuses because Lars is paying money to Zango - Zango wins

Anyone seeing a pattern here?

Do you think perhaps we are fighting with the wrong people?:2 cents:

4. Lars announces a policy that AFF will not deal with Zango in the future and will ToS any affiliate sending traffic through Zango or similar sources. - AFF wins in the eyes of its affiliates

and that brings us right back to number 1. again.

AFF affiliates lose traffic to sexsearch or whoever else buys it - Lars loses money as well and Zango wins.

late sig

I've been waiting for such a list myself.

I'm thinking about infecting a computer and making my own list.

I not understand why to much discussion here because it very clear about scamware "zango"/simular and aff.

very easy business model :

1. AFF buy scamware traffic, which stollen from his affiliates.
2. affiliates get less income and switch to more well paid programs.
3. AFF get less and less traffic from affiliates and zango
4. ooops. and no more traffic for AFF. Need to open new company, start again with affiliates/etc.

perfect self-killing business plan! And key here - traffic goes from affiliate sites anyway, zango just change id/cookie - but not have own traffic sources.

Key for affiliates - if company buy traffic from scamware/zango - it own affiliates cheating. Never particulate at this program, find the alternative.

PS : I cannot believe what AFF doing it. If it was some small program - not a big trouble, but AFF!?

How about AFF announce that they won't work with spyware again and that they have their legal team force Zango and similar spyware programs to add their sites to their list of banned bid words.

Zango has been ripping off mainstream advertisers for years, an dno doubt a good slice of income came from the gambling sites. Now, with online gambling being a thing o fthe past (in the US) they're re-focusing on porn.
This could be an opportunity for the porn industry to smash zango and gain some kudos in the mainstream.
Smash them anyway - fuck kudos.

how does he "lose" sales by not buying scumware traffic and robbing affiliates?

thats like saying i lose sales by not standing in central park and taking 3000 people hostage with truckload of explosives and demanding joins.

that's an interesting point.

He loses because other companies popup over AFF traffic, do you even know what zango is?

This what I think people are missing......

If someone dosnt bid with an AFF ad it will just pop up an ad for sexsearch or another affiliate program.

So a surfer lands on AFF with your ref code and all of a sudden its SexSeach they are seeing - your not getting paid either way - there isnt a lot AFF can do about that.

Why shouldnt AFF recoup some of that loss? - the traffic was meant for them.

You arnt going to see that sale anyway at that point.

If AFF get some back then at least they are making cash that they can afford to give affiliates in the form of bonuses.

Its just lost money otherwise.

There is no solution at present. If it's the sponsor doing it, he's doing it to protect his traffic. If an affiliate does it, he's doing it as an alternative method of getting traffic.

So far no one has come up with anything approaching a solution and the "Expert" I contacted could be working for the adware companies. The way she scared from downloading and testing the scripts. Or what ever they are called.

So I'm going to be devils advocate here and pitch the other sides argument.

10 or so years ago the business was a few sites converting at ratios sites would give their right arm to get today. Lot less traffic, lot less competition and no affiliates to speak of. Then it all changed and the situation was live with it, use it or die.

So now we have a situation where ever affiliate expects 50% of a paysites revenue from joins, free hosting, free content, free galleries, free banners, bonus payments and more. Plus marketing and endless support. So what do affiliates cost?

Let's say 33% of a sites joins revenue or to keep it simple $10.00 a month a sign up. With all the support it think it might be even more.

So can a sponsor get a sign up from companies like Zango for $10.00 or less?

Who loses?

The sponsor. Not really the traffic exists and unless you believe all the free content on the Internet generates rather then hurts sign ups removing all the free content would be a help.

The surfer, no he can still find his porn.

The TGP site and LL owner. Yes, but he will be intelligent enough to realise this is the time to compete. Some will and some will not.

Affiliates, see the above.

Will adware companies screw with surfers computers? Only if they want to scare the life out of the surfer from using them.

And affiliates before you argue that the traffic will simply dry up because you are not here, let me say this. You do not create traffic, unless free porn is contributing rather than hurting the Adult Net, you are merely directing EXISTING traffic.

Yes many of you will suffer, however if you had a site paying you $40 and a site paying $35 for exactly the same join/traffic/etc. where would you send it? Sponsors are doing the same.

I WAS MERELY BEING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE FOR THE OTHER SIDE, I WELCOME THE ARGUMENT FOR THE PROSECUTION. :winkwink:

Personally I think free porn does create traffic and joins, and I have stated so many time. I believe the affiliate situation levels the playing field and allows many site to exist that would not survive under other circumstances. But I was not pitching my beliefs.

its not AFF thats "losing" .... its the affiliate thats busting his ass to generate that traffic thats "losing". How does that hit belong to AFF when they didn't generate it? it belongs to the affiliate until that affiliate sells it.

:2 cents:

You have lost it anyway!! I dont how many other ways I can put it.

If they have Zango you lose the sale if AFF buy it or not....

It will just go to another dating sponsor!

I didn't even read all your post I stopped after this paragraph.

That comment is totally unfounded and based on you not understanding how adware really works. Kellie has the highest reputation in this field, she has been doing this for many years and whatever she said to you was PRECISE AND EXACT.

She has to be extremely careful when she does testing so that she doesn't propagate incorrect information.

The fact that you say that she could be working for the adware comanies is LUDICROUS. I can't believe anyone would ever say that!!!!

Just try to understand what she told you rather than brush it off as too hard or too much work. I told you that testing for scumware activity was a lot more than just installing the application on your computer.

Your comment made me very angry! We try to help you as much as possible and you don't even try to understand any of it.

Missie

The way I understand it, you are wrong.

You definitely lose if they look for AFF and AFF pops over top of your link. You lose less often if another dating sponsor pops up. There's still the chance that they'll close the competitors window and go with the one that matched what they were looking for instead.

People are just trying to find ways to get the sponsors behind NOT PAYING people who steal traffic with Zango or similiar products. This should probably be the priority, and not a situation where you just shrug and participate.

I dont think anyone should just shrug and participate either, but while we wait for a solution we have to make the best out of a bad situation.

Then read it yourself.

Maybe I'm easily scared. She did not offer to do it for me for a fee. Or anyone else. As an "Expert" (my term) I think it would be a good idea for her to do this.

thats not the same thing as your argument that AFF lost the sale. its not their sale yet to lose. its the webmasters. it only becomes AFFs when they take action, bid on keywords that show up on YOUR site, a surfer goes to your site, THEIR popups are triggered, with THEIR CODES and your traffic is now stolen.

you can't kill people because people would have been killed anyway.
you can't participate in a rape because she would have been raped anyway.
you can't steal something because YOU THINK it would have been stolen anyway.

it would seem to me that the appropriate thing to do in this situation would be to stop fucking people and partnering with scumbags first... work on a solution second.

Paul,

Why post that email publicly when she SPECIFICALLY said not to????????

What's wrong with you??

Missie

Mr. AFF you are getting very greedy in my opinion. I'm sure you agree that your affiliates made your company to what it is today. Millions of banners are spread all over the net promoting AFF. It's normal to look for new angles to expand business but it isn't smart to do so on the back of the people who are responsible for making your company to what it is today. In any business it's important to give something back (I'm not talking about a Ferrari). I'm sure you will come up with other creative ways to promote AFF without upsetting your hard working affiliates. You are about to cross a certain line with this adware solution which could hurt the "good name" AFF still has today. Not only with affiliates but also with the general public.

Lars repeatedly claims to be one of two owners of Friend Finder. If that's the case, then he's more than just a messenger and not simply the company's mouthpiece.

Lars told me they don't buy our keywords :( .. So I'm hoping it's an affiliate and they terminate them :thumbsup

So did it answer your questions? To me it seems like she is trying to put me off from testing. So what is she so scared of?

So far no one has come up with a creditable option or way to combat adware. Even those who claim to be fighting the adware people are putting us off from testing it, not offering anything positive, offering to test for us and asking me to keep quiet about it.

The best opposition to date is affiliates do not send these companies traffic. but this will drive these companies to rely more on other means of driving traffic, other than affiliates.

Missie read my post and come up with positives not negatives.

If there policy on this is anything like their policy on their affiliates using stolen content, then it'll take two official complaints from Dating Gold with proof before the affiliate it terminated. And then Lars will probably ICQ and tell him to sign up again.

Sorry but you wouldn't know positive if it hit you in the face Paul!

You really don't get it at all. You NEED to read up on this stuff to at least understand the BASICS of how adware/scumware really works. Read it as many times as it takes until it starts to sink in. You're as green as you can be on this stuff. I'm not insulting you, that's a FACT Paul.

Kellie didn't scare you, she tried to PROTECT you. You didn't even get that much. I've told you many times there was more to testing than meets the eye. You install scumware on a work computer on a network and you DO put your whole business in jeopardy. What part of that do you not understand??

You were not talking about just zango, there are VERY MALICIOUS programs out there that DO destroy computers. There are programs that steal your information, credit cards, etc...

Where the hell have you been all these years?

Based on your ICQ messages, you really have NO idea what adware/scumware is or does. No one can help you until you're open minded enough to educate yourself so at least you can understand a basic conversation on the subject. Right now you think everyone is out to get you or you should join them because you can't beat them.

Missie

FREE LEGENDARY LARS!!!!

Find those that force him into this madness...

ya, good point. Zango is spyware/scumware.

Here is my feeling: If Lars had come here and called out Sexsearch and said: "quit buying our keywords on Zango you little shits" he could have saved himself a ton of money, gotten himself some really good positive publicity, and maybe even encouraged Sexsearch to back off.

Instead, they decides to lay down with the dogs and pay off Zango.

Zango wins in all cases EXCEPT when people don't bid on keywords, don't bid on links, and don't pay the ransom or don't use Zango to steal from others.

SEXSEARCH SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES FOR SUCH HORRIBLE OPERATING PRACTICES!

Lars should be equally embarrassed by being willing to play with scumware companies.

gave this topic more promo: http://www.businessvoyeur.com/2006-1...ment-on-adware

If they are buying ads themselves i am sure they are not gonna can this afilliate. I could be wrong but who knows. All i know is anything webcams/dating related now is fucked :Oh crap

I'm glad we pulled all AFF links before this ever happened. They won't be going back in our members area (premium traffic).

Unfortunately no other dating program has been able to step up.... any recommendations? We've tried sexsearch and fling.com .. both were disappointing.

Who wants to take the #1 spot from our dating links?
Hit me up aric at pimproll.com

Anyone know if AFF was bidding on Sexsearch keywords? Could explain why they didn't come out and bag on sexsearch.. just curious. All this involved too much reading so I've missed parts here and there.

There's Missie! My new favorite industry female. Knows what she's talking about and has taken the skepticism and blows with style and stabilized fury! :thumbsup hehe...

These guys that use Zango are probably sitting back laughing because they know it'll be like everything else...
People will bitch & moan for a few days.. threaten to pull their links.. yada yada..

But, as usual, nobody will choose to band together to any extent that would actually make any difference.

And until that time comes, which I don't see ever happening, this stuff will continue..
Posts will be made... people will bitch... 1 or 2 may pull links... and the people being bitched at will keep making your money.

Sponsor Boycotts would do the trick, but such a silly thought to think it would ever happen..

We pulled our links before this. And we're a top 5 sponsor according to Epoch :) We don't tolerate this shit.

So.... we need new dating links people! Hit me up - see above.

Let them laugh for now. There is alot of pissed of people right now with large pockets geting screwed on this . There is alot of stuff going on behind the scenes which you wont see get posted till its time. I myself contacted 3 media outlets about this and was surpised i got a relpy from one of them. so we will see how this all pans out.......

HAHA Thanks Red! :)

Unlike many here, I didn't just find out about this 2 weeks ago. Been battling this for years already in mainstream. The only difference is that when I was first introduced to scumware problems, I took all the time I needed to educate myself, I've read everything on the subject at the time, I got in touch with those in the know, and learned as much as I possibly could. That's how I met Kellie and Ben and a few others, seems like a lifetime ago now.

There is so much more to this, all these threads have only brushed the surface of it. Still a good start!!! Look for more "news" on this, it's far from over. :)

Missie

excuse my ignorance, but this is a serious question.

when you use PPC programs, they will decline ads for trademarked terms. create a test ad with Adwords and throw Sony, Toyota, Nokia, Sprint and so on in the ad text and it will usually not go live. if it does, it gets deactivated fairly quickly. i noticed that yahoo won't let you bid on "xxxx.com" usually and the ad is deactived - reason "trademarked term". With yahoo they usually dont go live. the reason is always "trademarked terms"

is someone "forced" to bid on their own company and product names if they have them trademarked? can't a legal letter be sent to the company thats allowing users to bid on those terms or to those bidding on them demanding them to stop?

Let's just say that Zango doesn't have the corporate profile of a yahoo yet.

Nbody "Forced" them to do anything, they made their choice to scam everyone, knowing perfectly well what they were doing, and anyone that believes their garbage excuses they are giving now is a fool.
After reading this whole thread the only conclusion one can draw is the Legendary Lars now = Legendary Liar.:2 cents:

This is very well said and quite true.:2 cents:

bump .....

lars you are a fucking idiot

You mean you think Lars lied to you?

NO SUSHI FOR YOU!!!

Paul that shows a serious lack of character. I wouldn't even post ICQ convo with people even if they didn't ask me not to. For someone to give you good info (whether you think it is good or not) and take the time to reply back with a long detailed email, you think you could have been a little more cool about this. IMO, it shows a lack of integrity on your part to post, at the very least, the parts that she specifically said she would not want to be made public.

Everyone should

SEE YOUR SIG!!!