So now NATS stole the signups from people who never had any signups. This is just getting silly.

No I didn't. Why and WHERE would I? No one has given me an example of where they have a problem.

This is getting absolutely pointless and extremely silly. I'm done here.

For me, I actually think that (1) NATS counts more hits that might have been counted with previous software, and (2) no software is perfect.

So there you go.

Silly is that you don't sign up to the programs yourself as an affiliate and do test sign ups on your own links. WTF do you need my account for when you can get one yourself to run test in 3 mins or less?:disgust

So what! We are talking about sign ups.
You know, money...cash!
Money went down...fuck the hits.

Programs choose NATs because it makes their life "easier", there's the "no shave" aspect they can use to promote their program. You're client base has nothing to do with what the affiliates are saying.

As for affiliates complaining. Every time this issue comes up, you prove why affiliates don't bother complaining or saying anything to the programs. We can't really prove it because they automatically say "everything is fine on our end".. or ... "maybe it's the way you're promoting us"... so as affiliates, we say "oh well" and move our traffic elsewhere. I can't tell you the number of times I've gone thru this.. I'll even do everything they tell me to in terms of changing my adverts etc. and still nothing. So all you can do is move on.

I just did this with fleshlight. I was making sales with the same traffic and ads... Now less.. But I want to give it the benifit of the doubt so I contacted them and I've changed my ads in the way they recomended and I've also trippled the traffic I'm sending. So now I'll see how the numbers go. But this is the last chance before I move away from them.

Some of us actually DO know what we're doing.

Most of us consider the number of sales, not the converion ratios etc.

Fleshlight had issues in their move to NATS. They've said that many times.

I'm asking you to give me personally an example of where your performance dropped of substantially after a move to NATS, not the program owner. I would like to examine it myself. You're accusing me of not caring (which i take very personally) yet you won't allow me to look into it. What do you expect me to do?

If I could give you an exact example, I definately would.. I've only had 2 programs (well 3 if you include fleshlight which I'm still not sure about, I'll see if I can still get the old stats) switch from other software to NATs. One is Flashcash which I don't send enough traffic to to really make a comparison, and the other program also implemented their own merchant account so it's not a fair comparison.

But the real problem comes in with programs that have only ever used NATs. For example.. Let's say I promote 10 ebony sites from programs that don't use NATs and 10 ebony sites from programs that use NATs. Now if the non NATs sites are always making me more money than the NATs ones, how can any of us prove that to you... And that's the major issue that many of us see and try to communicate. We promote sites that use NATs and "should" perform as well as the non NATs ones, and yet they don't. I just don't know how we could prove that to you since one can always just assume it all comes down to how they're marketed... This is not something the programs themselves or your programmers etc. could track down or report on. It's only affiliates that promote a lot of programs and sites.

But you don't appear to be listening and I can understand that given some of the personalities that get into the conversation.

Maybe you could approach a group of the top affiliates and maybe they'd be willing to share numbers across a lot of programs and sites with you. That's about the only way you could truly investigate it.

I understand your frustration and believe me, I'm also frustrated when I promote sites that I just know in my gut should do better than they end up doing. I'm not bashing. I'm just trying to communicate my experiences and impressions as an affiliate.

Thank you :)

You're exactly right that we can't do anything about the products. Some sell, some don't. Not every program is a match for everyone's traffic. NATS programs may have many affiliates doing well and it may just not sell on your traffic or Shap's since you pointed him out. If those programs had all of their affiliates with shitty ratios and told them all "everything looks fine" I don't think they would be doing much business.

As for the examples with NATS. One, Flashcash, you said you don't have enough traffic to really judge. The second, Fleshlightcash, has been gone over and did have some issues at the changeover time which has never been denied. The third, you said there was no performance drop on but you negate that because you think there should be one from them moving to their own merchant account. Thats not ALWAYS the case. Their gateway could be doing just as much scrubbing as a 3rd party if they want it to. Saying that NATS must be making it worse because factor XYZ should be making it better doesn't make too much sense.

I appreciate you understanding my frustration. Contrary to what you said about me originally I care very very much about how our product performs and its reputation with both affiliates and program owners. If there is an issue it is 100% our priority to look into it and get it fixed. But I can't keep chasing an invisible issue.

This cannot be taken as a fact. I have operated merchant accounts in the past including with netbilling. It's up to merchant to define the scrubbing/security level and requirements. An adult company more likely in fear when starts with a merc.account they will start from highest scrubbing and based on the results they'll adjust it. They already gain 4-6% more from processing fees difference do not forget.

My own experience...

Fleshlight... I actually sell way more now than before. Way more...

But on the flip side:
Panchodog... While they were CCBILL, I used to get a ton of sales... Now I get a sale like 2 times a month... I basically stopped promoting them...

But, can I say NATS effected either program? No... Not unless they both let me get on their server and look around.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Fleshlight did get better because their old software was bullshit.

I have another that Panchdog is just getting old...

That is very strange since we switched to Nats our ratios have been great. :)

Mark

I doubt NATS is the problem...but I think NATS invites program owners to shave !

Yes, it has no shaving feature, I know, but it's not very hard to shave (or better: use creative ways of tracking signups and/or defining what a is a signup and what not) in general, no matter which software is used. If I'd want to shave as a program owner, I'd install a third party software, because it's much easier to blame them for things going wrong than accusing a big billing company directly. I'd go with NATS because it doesn't have a shaving feature included so I could always claim I can't shave because I use NATS...Irony, but quite realistic if you ask me....

The only program I ever really promoted using NATS was .. Oh, what was their name, you know, the ones that sued NATS. LOL.

This has however been an interesting read.

John, the day that happens I will give up and quit this business - and I dont foresee that in the near future :winkwink:

I can find roughly 30 sites actively running MPA. Can you show me much more? Not just say you can, but actually show me more.

And you know I'd never want you to quit :)

Programs, like Flashcash, that had custom backends and a lot of webmasters suspected them of shaving (because the feature could be easily wrote in), hence the move of a lot of old programs to NATS.

NATS doesn't present the ratios in an way that looks most flattering to the sponsor.

You signups are about the same.

It's monday. You gonna post the announcement?

this was a fun read..

NATS is a solid system in my opinion.

that said, most of the issues with conversion ratios bouncing to and fro are related to processors. almost always.

edit: assuming your traffic is consistent.

Yes, we will today.

We were in the same situation as FlashCash... and moved to NATS in hope of trying to gain trust from affiliates.

John, you already know (and have for years) that we never go out and tell anyone who our clients are and we dont have a website showing all customers. With MPA3 or MAS for that matter we respect our clients right to confidentiality. Always have and always will.

That said, if you have 10x the amount of programs your closest competitor have (Mansion) then you must have THOUSANDS of clients - so I am merely pointing out that you are over exaggerating immensely unless you grew 10 fold over the past few days.

:upsidedow

LOL Ever heard of the embed tag? Needs the autoStart value :helpme

It would seem to me very easy to check if you're getting sales, lost or what ever.

Get on ICQ and start checking each others programs. You can email the sponsor and tell them to cancel your tests.

John, accept that some people have a problem, don't deny it's there because you can't see it. They can.

Over all no program can afford to lose the sales some are claiming, nor can they afford to have their affiliates lose the sales some are claiming. Using NATS with it's cascading billing should gain sales not lose them.

However it's clear as daylight some affiliates have a problem and it should be dealt with, not denied.

I will be sticking with CCBILL.

The downside is I have only one biller, if I put up a second the affiliates hate me and accuse me of shaving them. Even if I was paying the 65% on the one biller.

Might put up a second or third biller and adjust the payment % accordingly. Then tell the haters to :321GFY and find a new program. Because it seems you can't please all the people all the time. Which is the essence of this thread.

So just went back on my own advice. Not trying to be funny, only stating the obvious.

If you're making good money with your sites, then spend the money for some good software. If you remember the thread Shap wrote about his business, you'll remember it's the one thing he strongly recomended. That way you can cascade and keep affiliates happy as well. Why not see which software he uses.

So nothing has really been concluded from this thread?

Matt

I've got some things in the pipeline. Keeping quiet abot them for now.

But one of the things will be new software.

Not NATS.

Frank - What was this in regards to - Fleshlight or a combo of programs that have since switched? http://www.gfy.com/11352117-post41.html

Thanks :)

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

You are the dumbest fuck alive.

The code above goes into the "embed tag"; but only an idiot would need me to tell them that.

one fiddy :pimp

Gotta love it when someone calls someone else a "dumb fuck" and shows that they don't know what they're talking about either. Self ownage is priceless.

<param is part of the OBJECT tag, not EMBED.

To get videos working "100%" on all browsers, you need to use both an OBJECT and EMBED. The EMBED also requires the auto start in the tag.

http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_object.asp
http://www.w3schools.com/media/media_quicktime.asp

John,

Is this the only lie you have come up with lately, OR do you have more skeletons in the closet ?

I normally stay fare away from the trashing you do on the boards about us. But some times you just go over the line. We have talked on the ICQ and given you a chance to go in and correct this statement, but you didn't want to.
You keep on trying to step on us as a company just to try to put your self in a better light.

What if you could start worrying about your own company and your customers first and fore most. You have no where near 10 times more clients then us. You don't have no where near as MANY clients then us at all. If we calculate only the mpa3 part then yes, you have some what more clients then us. But you don't even have double of what we have. STOP your lying!
It is only natural that you have more Affiliate script clients then us. We are more expensive then nats, and we will continue to be so too. We also do not do direct marketing to NATS clients where we will give them huge discounts if they leave nats and move over to mpa3. We also do not do false marketing campaigns that its impossible to shave using our product, or add in features that will allow our clients to show webmasters only "Verified" signups.

Now please leave us alone and do what you guys do best. You have a good product there, spend your time market that instead of trashing us!

I with that. I like both companies. Oy is a good guy and I think they both work hard at creating honest products and improving them.

We do test signups using affiliate codes once every couple weeks with NATS and we haven't had one fall through the cracks yet. I'm sure the same can be said for MPA.

Oystein all the way.. down with nats

Yeah surely Mansions is not ten times smaller than NATS!

uyy the drama can't we all JUST GET ALONG!!!

btw you guys see the new webair.com design? sorry hit and run thread jack =) i'm allowed i know all involved =))

Does this actually surprise anyone when you basically give your backend away for a few hundies. I see this as basic retail 101... Sell a few hundred Tshirts or sell a couple of suits for the same profit. Welcome to Tshirt hell bud. With threads from potential's like "What should I choose CCbill or NATS"... It explains allot. Props to you for saturating the market with your 10x the poop client base :thumbsup

Being that its almost Xmas with the Vegas show rolling up... Where's your "Get everything for nothing special" thread you post every 4 months. I have a feeling its coming and with that more fly by night programs. sigh

That's hot!


:winkwink:

Your new design is super HOT!

Send me the designer, we need more in house designers, I will pay good money ;)