I agree with you that they know how to maximize their income when it comes to cross sales, and upsells, etc.. knowing exactly how much they pay out vs. how much they generate in sales, and the exact amount the average person spends on their site, etc...

I disagree that most program owners know what promos work best, provide good tools, the best layout for their pages, or signup pages etc.. I am sure some get lazy like you mentioned but what I also notice is that some either launch too soon or just never had anything good from day 1.

If i was really serious and looking for work I agree I would have definetly taken a better approach. I am open to helping a company out if they feel they have room to improve and want my services. If they don't want mine then most of them should really get with an affiliate that is successful and get some serious feedback from them and improve their programs. I just thought this would be good topic for discussion and I was curious to see what others think on the same issue.

They (we) also know this intimately, down to what path the average surfer takes through their pages and which pics they look.

The thing you're not getting here is that when you have 60 sites, doing an optimization is an amazing amount of work and good help is hard to find, and sometimes there is a large amount of research involved, especially when you're talking about exit consoles, pop behinds, upsells etc and so on. You usually have to microsupervise everything that gets done. It's a pain in the ass.

Show the work you've done. If it's really that good, you might get some interest from webmasters as long as you'll actually do the work yourself or agree to supervise the designers etc required to get it done. You might be surprised how many webmasters are willing to delegate some responsibility if they think they have someone with half a brain to actually get it done right.

Give away Wiis - that's the secret to success.

yes a rewards program can be very helpful :)

Sounds like you could use a multivariate platform.. feel free to drop me an e-mail if you'd like to hear more about it.

If you're unfamiliar with the methodology, the gist is that it will enable heavily automated statistically significant tests of a wide range of creative variations - enabling you to find the most optimized versions of all of your creatives (landing pages, email offers, join pages, pops) with a fraction of the labor and traffic this would otherwise require.



My e-mail is in the link in my sig, btw.

sounds like a lot of needlessly large words to describe the core function, after tracking joins, of any webmaster referral proggie. Good luck with it though :)

btw the link in your sig isn't working for me.

sorry about that.. dns migration. http://server1.o9o.us/traffic/

and no, it doesn't work anything like that, at all.

those weren't needlessly large words, i hate buzzwords. if you don't know what any of it meant, start googling. i dont have a flash demo. :)

these people do have a demo though, and their product is similar. but mine optimizes automagically (how's that for a buzzword?). theirs is self-service, manual.

http://www.offermatica.com/demos/landing.html

watch that and maybe it'll make more sense. i'm not good at explaining or selling things, i just make money for people ;)

I can tell you that for the most part membership sites, ( pics / videos and solo girl sites) their signup pages are correct at least. Kinda hard to screw that one up since the sign up page should match the site that it is being used for. For those sites I think across the board it is just a lack of innovative tools. Which has nothing to do with optimizing. Sure it takes time to impliment new tools, but if a company can manage to rattle off 60 sites I don't see what they can't put in place good promos and tools to go with them.

The sites that are the worse with tours and signup pages are dating and webcam sites. Sites that typically feature multiple niches but try to take a stab at providing tools for it but mess it up. Or ignore the potential of tapping into niche traffic all together. Like a said this is not a major issue on a solo site.

Sorry but I am not going to post all of my best work on GFY just to prove i know what they hell I am doing. I have been copied way too much and not worth it to me to do this just so some of you can say " oh that does look good" and some of your idiots say " that is dumb" etc... and 100 of you say nothing and start coping it lol. If someone is interested like i have posted a couple times in thread already, give your url and I will give you a little sample of what I think you can do better. Not everything I have done would work for every site. And a LOT of what I would be doing is fixing or changing things that they are already have in place. Suggesting little things like " don't have links to other shit on your signup page" isn't really something that I can display by posting my work here.

It was fun playing with this idea but at this point, it is not worth seriously debating if I am worth it or not, but I would like to continue the discussion of why affiliate companies don't do a much better job with these issues and who typically is in charge of the promos and marketing tools.

damn i need sleep, ignore all the typos. I can translate tomorrow if everyone is having a hard time understanding that. ok off to bed.

hey will76, i left a message in your older thread about bbw traffic. Thought you'd notice the post in this thread sooner.

Also, may i ask you if you provide consultacy services for affiliates?

but you wouldn't be! you'd be the mighty will76 with the wonderful promos, tools, niched based signup pages, etc.
you'd be special! you'd be perfect! you'd have every webmaster.:winkwink:

Any takers yet?


ha ha

I'm not surprised either :glugglug

Will,if you realy think you have knowledge which have drasticly improve one program,then it will be better solution do you use it for yourself.Why give unique knowledge for such nickels to someone if you can use it much effectivly for yourself.

I could easily be wrong, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the original post was to make a point more than it was a serious attempt to drum up some work. Many of the responses, focusing on who made the point, rather than on the point itself, make it all the more valid.

In any case, your point is a cliché and a bad one. My health no longer lets me run a big business, but that doesn't mean my brain has forgotten how. And I'm weak at running a small business because my strength isn't in spending each day dealing with minutiae. Such talent as I have is in coming up with ideas and finding the right people with the know-how to execute them: for twenty years I put that to work in my own businesses and for five hired myself out. I still do, although less actively. Its appeal to me is the variety of challenges together with the absence of some of the more mundane issues which are involved in actually owning a business.

There are many other, entirely reasonable factors which lead some people to work for themselves and some for others.

Whatever Will had in mind, the reality is that there is enough knowledge, publicly available, that more of us should be able to distinguish between people who have been successful despite themselves and people whose success was much more predictable. Similarly we should be able to distinguish between those who achieve a single, often relatively short-lived success and those who are building perhaps in the short-term less spectacular businesses, but much more valuable ones in the long-term.

As it is, many webmasters don't even fully appreciate that there are many different business models within all these groupings. They simply see that so-and-so bought himself a new Ferrari, attempt to analyze how he works and apply what they think they see to their own operation. What they end up doing is often inappropriate to their overall business profile and poorly executed. That combination is why so many fail and if they could have been steered in a more productive direction, the outcome could have been entirely different.

Yes, the proliferation in the use of then, instead of than, is my pet hate.

BTW ... Damage, I'll do my best to send you that info today. Been swamped for a couple of days.

just to clarify, my replies weren't meant to bash anyone or anyone's work or
skills including Will's. Of course there's a bunch of really good programs out there
aswell. A lot of the ones this thread is directed at are run by people who started
their program, made money and are now more busy enjoying their money than
running their business.

Another point is that as dig420 pointed out the amount of work involved.
Apart from doing all the sites support and affiliate support is a LOT of work.
With a good member and affiliate base you need at least 2 persons full time
24/7 just taking care of replying to emails and AIMs

Let me comment about that, while I do see why an honest affiliate would need that; and could use it to boost its income, I see at the same time 100 other affiliates willing to use such "feature" to scam the living shit out of the program and surfers...

Its naive from your part to expect this sort of "tools" or features to be made available to the general affiliate base without at least some base pre-screening :2 cents:

Since not 1 program wants to step up and get some free advice then here is a question to all of you.

Why do your blogs suck? And if you don't have blogs what are you waiting for?

I looked through program after program looking for blog content and it all sucked. I don't think some of you understand what the purpose of a blog is. People like blogs because they want to READ something. Blogs are about the people writing them, presenting a story line and giving people a reason to come back. However i think a lot of programs out there think blogs are essentiayl a tgp. When you have a blog that consists of 1 big picture with the text under it saying " click here to see the rest of the pictures " which links to a page with more pictures on it, that isn't much different then how a tgp works.

There are so many ways to do this better. After looking through several programs I gave up and hired someone to custom write blogs for me.

I guess this is one of those examples how the affiliate company is too busy and they at least provided blogs right so we should be thrilled about that even though it is shit! It's not their fault, they didn't have the time to actually do a good job with them? :upsidedow Or am i wrong here, any affiliates out there think that the blogs across the board, that sponsors offer are fine and you are happy with them ? Or do I not understand how a blog works, and I am wrong and all a blog is meant to be is a way to posts pictures that link to more pictures and this is how most surfers see blogs as well.

Would you please just fucking shut up already?

Ok, so do it on a case by base case. Allow your affiliates who send more then " x " sales a week and have been with that company for " x " amount of time access to such tools if you are worried about people abusing it and you don't have the safe guards to catch such abuse.

So, problem fixed that easy. Will you offer this option ?

Sure, why not?

Thing is many people (majority) like to demand the world and whatnot even thought they "are getting the links up" and haven't even sent a join...

The ones that ask the less are the ones doing more (in all aspects), so that kinda kills your theory of: offer and give everything to affiliates in a silver plater

Don't forget to bump !

For those of you who don't catch many things, Jimmie is posting in this thread for the sig views.

Obviously he doesn't want to reply to questions I have asked like why in the hell would a program put someone like him charge. What qualifications does he have ? Because you talk shit on GFY and sell your sig ? What else can you do Jimmie, like i said before it sounds like you are the guy that does everything at LavenderCash, you set up the promos etc for your couple affiliates to use. How many sales have you made in your life, what are some of your innovative promo ideas and tools for LavendarCash. Please share, please use this as a way to promote it. Wait you don't even promote the program you run in your sig :1orglaugh Sad.

So case in point, take someone who has never done any sales themselves and put them in charge of a program, and you guys wonder why the end result is shit and at best the same as a 100 other programs.

you have a bad attitude towards affiliates. Who is asking for a silver fucking plater. How about providing tools to make your fucking program more money. Affiliate makes more money, the affiliate program makes more money.

believe me i've wasted hours helping TCC affiliates and then just have them flake on me and i didn't make a penny for my time. It's part of doing business when you deal with affiliates. You should be worried more about the ones that you keep and helping them make more money with better promos and tools then the ones you helped that didn't do anything. :2 cents:

BTW, the ones that ask less do it for themselves. Sure these are the best ones, but do you jknow why they do good because they come up with better shit then what the affiliate program is providing. Why not give the same quality tools to your med to small affiliates who either are not that innovative or just don't have the means to make such tools but still send you a good amount of traffic.

I have a bad attitude towards affiliates?...excuse me? wtf... :disgust

For a sec thought this thread could go somewhere, but it seems easier to just bash people to gain attention...

whatever...have fun in your cruzade agaisnt the evil Affiliate Programs...gezzz

/me is out of here...

The majority like the demand the world and (basically don't do anything). How did i read this wrong. And the silver platter comment?


Ok i am done for the day. I might be back later tonight ;)

Your comment speaks volumes about what you actually know regarding the majority of any affiliate base...

have fun in la la land tho :thumbsup

It's quite pointless to talk to someone with a "holier than thou" attitude, as they will never actually hear anything other than what they say themselves.
This thread is nothing more than an attention whore's "come look at me" attempt at trying to make people think they're important.

What that 9 out of 10 that sign up don't do ever send any traffic. And this is relvant to why affiliate programs don't offer better tools and promos?

What is sounds like you are telling me (or you t hink) is that why give them everything on a silver platter because they wont send any signups anyway.

or the other things I learned in this thread, affiiate companies are simply too busy to be able to provide good promos and marketing tools.

Maybe you can explain to all of us (or me since I am the only clueless person here) what you seem to think I am missing about affiliates and why I am in lala land.

ok tell you what Will: Hit me up on icq or email and we'll give you a shot at arranging some things coming up at nats.fetishbucks.com, especially re promo content. We'll see what happens and I'll give a report to GFY on your accomplishments and knowledge :)

your right will. A blog is a place for a blog OWNER to write stuff for surfers to read. If you're as good as you say you are at selling, you wouldn't WANT someone else writing your blog.


Back when I was a free site webmaster I knew the value of working and creating my own stuff. Now it seems you just want as many cookie cutter handouts as possible.

Here's a clue for those of you reading this thread. You want to make money in this business, work at it. begging for and getting the coolest promo tools only means you have exactly what all your competitors have. Go be different and make yourself some money.

Begging program owners to do your job for you is no way to go thru life.

Whuch program did you start, and turn into a million dollar company, that gives you the expertise to do this???

He wants a hundred bucks an hour though dude.



Oh well, congrats to the whiners anyway.

Is he still single?

Here is a little preview. Before I signup to an affiliate program I check out the sites they offer that I am interested in promoting. Before I get into the affiliate tools and promos this is the first thing I look into. I looked at your sites and the one that I think I would use first would be Interracial - xxx. I really don't care what the tours look like (personally) I prefer to send people straight to the signup page in most cases. The signup page is the one page that I need you, so i need you not to fuck it up and cost me money. I went to your signup page: http://www.interracial-xxx.com/tour....12:join.html/A the first thing i look for is traffic leaks (links). I know you have to put some for your processor, that is understandable. However some people link to all kinds of shit on their signup page. If people can't understand why it is crucial to NOT do this and if they don't realize that the signup page is the most important page on their site then we can start another thread and I explain more.
You did good with no out going links. The only one I noticed (which got my attention right away) was your flashing banner on top offering my traffic a free option to signup. Ok cool, as long as I still get paid for this. I am fine if they click it - https://wnu.com/secure/fpost.cgi?co_...et15&x_source= BUt i get an error message, " sorry your oder has been denied". Fuck, now you offered me a free membership and then denied me. The problem I have here ( i know it is an oversight and shit happens) but when my traffic goes to your signup page, 95% of them know its a membership site, its not going to be free, so they come in expecting to pay. Now you put the idea in their head they can get something for free and then you take that away from them. Kind of hard to get them to come back up to spending money after you do that.
The other thing I would do (if I had control over the signup page). I would go over with them everything the site offers. I would tell them " You are only seconds away from 35,383 xxx interracial pics , and 738 hours of video", and what ever else they will get access to. Your signup page gives me the feeling of ' ok here you are, you can signup now". Which is ok, at least you not doing something to fuck it up (minus the oversite of the free offer not working). But not everyone is 100% sold when they get to your signup page so IMO you should list everything they are about to get access to. I have a few more ideas to make the signup more attractive but I wont go over all of that here.

The things I mentioned above, will probably only affect your sales very little but if you do a high volume of sales i am sure it can add up. Little things here and there also add up too.

If you are really serious about me looking at your promos and marketing tools I will take a quick look later tonight. No need to report back to GFY unless if you think I suck and want to bash me, lol then that is cool feel free. If i was really looking for work I would find a company that needs help and spend a week going over all their stuff, fly out there and go over all of it with them and not charge them as penny. I would let the results speak for itself and then have other companies see that I know what I am talking about. If the day comes I need work that is the way I would approach it personally.

I don't mind spending a little time tonight on your stuff since i put an offer out there and you were the first company to take it... just let me know if you are serious or not before I waste my time.

Sorry, I can come up with some pretty good shit, but there are girls I would rather write my blogs for me then me trying to pretend I am a girl. Also, for the work that I am doing I don't have time to put my creative female hat on and waste a hour or so a day to update my blogs. As you know, you get to the point you can't do it all yourself and you need to hire people.

Sorry, I can come up with some pretty good shit, but there are girls I would rather write my blogs for me then me trying to pretend I am a girl. Also, for the work that I am doing I don't have time to put my creative female hat on and waste a hour or so a day to update my blogs. As you know, you get to the point you can't do it all yourself and you need to hire people.

thats kind of like saying you would rather write your own sexy stories :upsidedow

if you consider properly updating your blogs as a waste of your time, why shouldn't the program owner feel the same why about it?:winkwink:

LOL, i am not begging anyone for a handout. I make all my own shit. I was asking questions like why even bother doing a blog if it sucks and do they know that is sucks or do they think it is good? I am sure they know that 1000s of their affiliates use the shit they provide so why not make those tools better so their affiliates can make more money which makes them more money.

Like I said i pay for my own stufff. the only thing **I** need from any program is a blank signup page. I will do the rest and make the rest of the promos myself that I know what works best for my traffic...

I don't understand why so many programs take the attitude " go make it yourself". Personally i am fine with doing that. But since 95% of your affiliates use the shit you make, wouldn't it make more sense for you to actually do a better job in what you provide.:2 cents:

so making promos and marketing tools that has generate millions of dollars in sales from my work does not qualify me to give advice to affiliate programs about promos and marketing tools because I haven't started a million dollar program.

Is that what you are asking ?

I said a waste of MY time. So you suggest I do it myself when i can pay someone a couple dollars an hour to do a better job then me. My time is worth more then a couple bucks an hours and I can find a lot more productive things to do with it.

My blogs are updated regularly, just not by me. By the female i have writting them that can do a better job then me.

and yet you still are asking for the program owner to supply it even though you won't use it.
ok.:winkwink:

oh, and in response to this:

your original argument was *more* and *better* if you'd like to now change your argument to just *better* thats fine.

The sponsors get enough suggestions from affiliates already... there's nothing "groundbreaking" you could tell them. Now, if they would actually listen to affiliates and make the required changes that would be a different story ;)

lol i know you have to be fuckign with me :winkwink: but just incase you are serious:


perhaps other people, other then myself would like better tools to use. :winkwink:

I don't get the whole handout mentality. I don't see how people asking for better tools so they can make you more money too = asking for a handout.

how about we not go over in detail a join page I haven't looked at in a year?

That site will be superceded by interracialsex.com anyway. When we have business, discuss it in email or icq, not on GFY.

I'm arguing with you for the sake of arguing.:winkwink:

however, its been my experiece that the loudest voices clamoring for more and more, are the guys sending you a join a month. These are the SAME people who run to the boards to explain how inferior something about your program is at the first opportunity.

lol that is what GFY is best used for, arguing for the sake of it, i know i really don't expect much else when starting threads like this. But there are serious issues here, but will people focus on them or just

i don't disagree with you that some people who ask for shit don't use it or come back and say what you did for them was crap. I am not really talking about custom stuff, but just better stuff across the board.

FACT!! (as jimmie would put it ) there are a lot of affiliates that just use what the sponsors give them, they don't try to make their own stuff and mfor that matter most of them might not think of a better way to do it anyway. I just don't see the harm in an affiliate company trying to offer the best promos and tools their affiliates. If that was the case maybe then I would actually use some of the shit.

All of this doesn't really benefit me anyway. What am i doing here < looks around> I need a new hobby. :winkwink:

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