That's your opinion. Apparently QB has a different opinion.

QB can choose who they do business with, just like you can choose who to send traffic to. If you don't feel comfortable giving them your information, don't, and send your traffic elsewhere. I doubt QB is losing any business from this, as someone suggested, they seem to prefer doing business with the "players" and this sort of seems like a "thinning of the crowd" type policy.

QB can run their business as they see fit, assuming legal, as can you.

You dont think they are going to lose money because of this policy?

Google doesnt require this form of identification for their programs.

How is this protecting against fraud anyways?

Well, it would seem that the owners of Quickbuck disagree with you. No one is forcing people to send them traffic.

lol think a bit deeper , as i pointed out this would be useless to protect fraud..

Fraudster simply makes a fake id. quickbuck has no authority to check the validity of id's end of story

It makes it 10 times worse if your id is now on some sponsors computers you have no access and dont know who has access to this information.

1 disgruntled employee and your "fraud deterent" turns into massive fraud.

Like i said this isn't attack on quickbuck , i applaud them for trying to deter fraud , but i think from the points i have made its obviously clear this wouldnt do that.. the only thing that might happen is it would cause worse fraud.

No. I don't. I already explained why.

Google is not QB. Why make the comparison?

Burger King doesn't give me garlic taters with my sandwich, Applebee's does.

I highly doubt the cleaning lady has access to stats and personal information. The number of people with said access is probably limited to just a handful of people, at max. If something were to happen, the suspects would be very limited. My ID, with blocked out sensitive information, has no more information on it than the sponsor already has.

Look at the number of affiliate reps that move from company to company over the years. Do you really think they have access to SS and Tax IDs? If so, I haven't heard of any mishaps yet.

Fraud prevention or weeding out the $50 affiliates?

and what happens when quickbuck gets hacked and loses all those id's.


hmm you have thousands of frauds instead of the one you tried to protect..

Companies are required under the law to protect the privacy of its employees etc, if i was to hand over eveything needed to clone my identity to someone , i would want to know who has access to that info and how its protected.

But your right they can ask for a handjob if they want , you dont have to give it to them or work for them..

I just think people should take this into consideration.

Is your entire identity worth a paycheck ?

I realise for security reasons you may not want to elaborate but how do you think this method would protect quickbuck from fraud ?

We are so cool, we only do business with "playa pimps" and want to thin out the crowd ? I don't think any program can afford a childish attitude like this long term and I honestly don't think that's the reason why QB is asking for an ID.

I'd be more worried about losing my SSN to a hacker than my edited ID. Look at all of the people in this thread still using SSN's as opposed to a Tax ID.

You have no problem giving 50 sponsors a SSN but take issue with an edited ID? I really don't understand. Are you THAT ugly? ;-)

all it takes is one quick swipe of a harddrive or 2 :)
could be would be should be :) before i hand over everything required to clone my identity i would want to be assured. 24/7 security guards , camera
if something happened it would be too late to be looking at suspects

They dont mention blocking out the info in the message , and if a non-blloced out id doesnt help protect fraud how is a blocked out one.. having your picture when they have never seen you is hmm rather useless dont you think..



exactly
i know many do
i have .. :)

could be BINGO , but i think this was actually a security measure that hasnt been thought out properly.

Some of the most successful long term companies have exactly this attitude. Affiliate fraud, support costs, all these things go into running a program. 90% of a program's money is made by maybe 10% of the affiliates, tops. 90% of the support requests dont come from that 10% either.

You still haven't mentioned why you're so concerned about an ID but not the SSN that all of these affiliate reps apparently have access to.

an edited i.d. is worthless for deterring fraud or determining who you are , as they have never seen you :)

Or are you so vain you want everyone to see who you are :winkwink:

I have ZERO problems with sending a blanked out i.d. other than why the heck would they want it ?

They want to see who's hot and who's not. I know I'll be getting flowers.

This thread has presented an interesting question. What information do affiliate reps have access to? New thread time.

did terrorists steal peoples ssn's to get on the planes and kill thousands of people or did they use stolen passport scans...

BINGO

Could you get a bank account with no id and just a ssn ? no

i think i mentioned several times why.. because you could be exposing YOURSELF to fraud

Just send them this one

http://i15.tinypic.com/2rgertd.jpg

can you rent a plane with a ssn , nope , can you with a copy of someone id with your photo :) yup

rent a car etc etc the list goes on.

sure there are many things that could be done with just a ssn ( phone company , cable etc ) but not nearly as concerning.. I do think affiliates should be carefull though..

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

With an SSN I can apply for many lines of credit and rack them up. I have applied for over 6 lines of credit online and not one has ever requested photo ID. When I buy things with my CC, ID is rarely requested.

We have decided to do this because the high level of fraud being sent through our program because of all the promo's and things we run. If you have somthing to hide then dont worry about it. We need to protect our self as well. Obviously we feel we will save more $ then we will lose. If you have an issue with the ID issue feel free to hit me up I am not hard to get ahold of.

Now click my sig below to find out how you to can retire at a young age

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Wiseman, can you tell us what has been done to secure them id's from being stolen? Are they stored on a computer connected to the internet? or Stored in a filing cabinet under lock and key?

Gary

wow more than google who doesnt require id's ?
by opening all your affiliates up to possible fraud ? hmm that doesnt sound very smart. you protect yourself at the expense of the affiliates

http://gfy.webspacemania.com/spa/33/

done and done..

I should reiterate here , i stronly support quickbuck taking a stance against fraud , it helps us in the end, but i think they should rethink this idea and come up with some more reassuring words than " send us your id or you dont get paid" like how this is will be protected , several people mentioned blocking out portions of the id that could cause a hacker or disgruntled employee to acccess the info.

Thats a pretty shitty statement Wiseman, not everyone who doesnt want you to have their US picture ID has something to hide. Regardless this does zero to protect you against fraud, the fraudsters will simply make fake IDs if they really want to scam you. :2 cents:

Well like I said feel free to hit us up. But this is what we feel we need to do.
You dont understand how easy it is for someone to sign up an acount. Put thre name as Ronald Fucking McDonald address of 666 hell st Chicago Il. Payment to my epass please [email protected] And then once we are getting sued because of somthing we have no protection. Or they go and slam a bunch of credit cards through us. Like I said if you are good affiliate have some traffic to send me feel free to hit me up.
Sorry if this inconviniences you. Trust me it sucks for us as well.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh !!

Needing identity verification seems almost like an obsession in the US in comparison to the UK for example. Be that as it may, as a general principle I don't care, since I'm not trying to hide anyway.

But there is the very obvious question as to how exactly, me being who I claim to be and living where I claim to live, is of any real value. I could be open about myself, but dishonest in my business practises. I could operate as honestly as anyone might wish, yet want to hide my identity and location simply to preserve my privacy.

Nor am I ever clear on why so much information is required, yet it is acceptable to provide it in a way which makes it so easy to fake. Why wouldn't it be preferable for everyone concerned simply to use regular mail: "When you receive this, please visit our site and enter this number as confirmation"? Certainly I might have arranged a drop address, but if I were going to go to that trouble, faking documents for transmission by fax or email would be no problem.

As has been said, security is another issue, particularly since these demands are often a one-way street, made by businesses which cover themselves and their principals in anonymity. Whatever the reasons for such secretiveness, it is a shabby way to do business at root and does nothing to reassure that one's data will be handled securely.

I suspect it is just another of those things which is either done because someone else is doing it, so it must be a good thing. Or else it was an idea which seemed like a good one at the time, but at no point did anyone really think it through.

I emailed mine early last week.. I missed todays payout because kris or whoever is responsible did not update my account :( :( now please correct this.

You know what. for those of you who feel you can get your info in before the end of the month I am paying out $75 on all paid trials the rest of this month for new joins.

Make sure to email me before the 5th to collect the extra cash! make sure subject line says $75 PER GFY THREAD

You can give them your ID. If they start asking for your CC # you need to worry

K.. you have mine.. can my account be updated please.

This is seriously the dumbest thread i've seen in a long time.

Virtually every affiliate who makes money with us has *already* sent proof that the people receiving payment are who they say they are. It's a no brainer, keep the program filled only with honest webmasters and you are now part of a program that can truly maximize *real* joins and compensate you for them.

We aren't storing this info. We just verify and then post it on usenet ;-)

If you don't like our policy then don't sign up, or don't send traffic.

We don't want to do business with people who aren't willing to abide by our policies. These aren't extreme policies, you can sign up, send traffic, and verify your identity 1 day, 2 weeks, or 3 months later, we don't care.

If you want to send traffic but arent comfortable with our written policies then just hit us up and we'll figure out another way to verify who you are.

Just like all the whiners in this thread say "fuck it i'll send my traffic elsewhere...."... so do the scammers.. scammers would rather send to a program that blindly pays with no verification of any kind.

Hit me up so I can check your acount to fix this

If it is immediately write all the info down from the conversation - and then find yourself a small claims lawyer - its against the law to ask for an ID to use a CC :)

Not everyone has a scanner and a lot of webmasters won't want to deal with this. First rule of business don't try to control your customers and partners. The more complicated you make it for a webmaster to sign up the less money you are going to make. Sure you will still get good webmasters that like your program but the hundreds of smaller webmasters that send a few sales a week will pass you by and that's thousands in lost sales. I'm not going out of my way to send a copy of my ID to anybody, fuck that. Why do something that no one else in the industry is doing? Most people don't even like to give out their SSN number.

sounds like a deal. I'll send mine tomorrow. Would have done it sooner, but my scanner was buried.

Anyway, I don't know what all the drama is about. If you live in the US you have to give a sponsor your name, address and social security number when you sign up. Most programs make you fill out a W2 as well. If they want to steal your identity that is more than enough info right there to do a pretty damn good job. I had mine stolen by someone that ran up 60K in bills and all they had was my name and a blank check. They were able to use that info to learn everything they could want to know about me. Wiseman having a scan my ugly mug on my drivers license isn't that big of deal in light of the info on me they already have.

The thing is... you're just WRONG... most of our smaller webmasters have already sent us their info.

The people who arent sent their info are the ones who are either LAZY, PARANOID, OR SCAMMERS

Real business people know the value of just simply knowing who you are dealing with.

I happen to agree with you and perhaps looked in the wrong place on your site for your info. All I could find was an address in Texas on your 2257 page (do you really have no hardcore content more recent that June 2005?), so I looked on WHOIS:

Domain name: quickbucks.com

Registrant Contact:
Whois Privacy Protection Service, Inc.
...
PMB 368, 14150 NE 20th St - F1
C/O quickbucks.com
Bellevue, WA 98007
US

Presumably you are willing to provide "real business people" with names, addresses, phone numbers, etc for the principals in your operation?

Why do you have to attack people like that? Just state your policy and let it be already. This thread gets more disturbing everytime I read it. You keep talking about "real business people", well real business people dont post things like what you just said on a public message board. Let it go already. :2 cents:

gotta agree with you here, iwent out of my way to make it clear i thought this was a good idea just poorly insituted..


Hey wiseman.. instead of reapeating your promo's in huge font why not just ease our minds and explain it a bit better.. You catch more flies with honey than insulting people.:2 cents: I'm fully ready to support you guys with this as long as you guys are a bit more clear

you stated above the id's are not stored , just looked and destroyed. How does this prevent fraud ?

verify my shit i emailed my id a week ago.

get your lemmings to work!

filling out a w9 and have it verified by a cpa is good enough. I applaud quick for doing what they can to mitigate tax dodgers. What this shows is that they really are paying out alot and have been advised by someone who knows the tax game a little better than the gfy accountants. Many programs have to pass the liability of tax payments to those they pay off themselves and on to the affiliate just like any other job. Everyone has to pay taxes. Thats rule #1
Duke

Nastydollars, Topbucks, and Bangbros do about 5 trillion more signups per day than quickbucks and they dont ask for drivers licenses or passports. That's just ridiculous.

heh yeah .. just dont send your bank password with the passport :)

Reasonable sentiments, but...

1. There is no onus on those asking for a W9 to verify the information on it. It is a criminal offense punishable by fines and/or jail to provide false information on a W9, which - wrongly or rightly - is felt to be adequate protection for the IRS.

2. Any operator wishing to follow the tax code properly should also be asking non-US payees to complete a W8.

3. Failure to provide the required forms should only trigger backup withholding tax: there is no provision in law for paying nothing.

So this is not about making sure everyone is paying their taxes. Fair enough, people can understand QB wanting to protect itself against fraud. But is the faxing or emailing of documents the least intrusive way, or even a reasonable way to acheive such protection for them.

Someone being paid by wire or check is already leaving a trail, as to a less direct extent is someone being paid by EPassporte. If someone like QB wants to verify a more direct trail, such as one to an address, the obvious way to achieve that is some form of mailed confirmation. Marginally more effort plus the cost of a stamp, but more effective and less intrusive. Telephone confirmation - calling the affiliate - would be another option.

Such methods are not cast-iron guarantees of anything, but the valid point several have made is that anyone intent on fraud is also more than capable of and likely willing to fake the copy documents which QB are asking for instead. Thus honest affiliates - surely the majority - are being exposed further to the possibility of identity theft, while any benefit to QB is largely illusory.

None of which would have been enough drama even for GFY, except that the transparency QB require is not reciprocal and instead of attempting to explain themselves, they lashed out at those who question their policies. That is why this thread is still running...

You show your id to cash a check

You show your id to buy a pack of cigarettes

You show your id to get into a bar.

You show your id to rent an apartment.

You show your id to get a blockbuster video card.

You show your id to get a job.

You show your id to get on a plane.

You show your id to suck cock on film.

The list goes on and on.


Equality & transparency?

We're not signing up to your program. You are signing up to ours, and you are asking for us to give you $30 or $40 for every $0.00 or $1.85 in sales you generate regardless of whether we make a profit from that trial.

This opens up lots of opportunities for scam artists. Especially when we run promos like $60 or $70 for an entire month.

Again, as far as transparency? When you cash a check at the bank, you don't ask for a copy of the bank owner's id even though they ask for yours. When you buy a pack of cigarettes, you don't get to see the counter girl's id because she saw yours. If you don’t trust us to pay you, then again… don’t sign up. You are making an active choice to enroll in quickbuck, you are enrolling because you like our sites/payouts/content and nobody is twisting your arm.

Hell, when you shoot a porn video you have to get model's ids ,but my guess is that the owner of the studio isn't sharing his id with the models. Life is not always a two way street, again, you want my money, you want me to send you a check/wire/epass/paypal, you want to promote my sites and use my content. You're asking me to give you something, so in exchange I ask you to verify who you are before we send payment. If I personally invite you to join, then it’s like a VIP line and yes, we would not ask for ID from somebody who we solicited.

Seriously, if you don't like it, send your traffic elsewhere. Requesting ID’s has had absolutely ZERO impact on our business and I would encourage other programs to institute similar policies.

Finally, let me re-iterate, anybody can join and send traffic immediately. This is not an ARS style "no link codes until you send a w9", this is simply a request for verification before payment and it is reallly really clearly disclosed at the top of every page in quickbuck if you're account has not yet been verified.

The drama level must be at an all time low for this thread to be getting any attention.

My last post on this matter:

Perhaps requesting payees to identify themselves will stop the fraud we have experienced, perhaps it will not, how about you let us figure that out since it's our business.

Will it stop gangs of professional carders with fake passport machines? No.

But it is a *deterrent* because much like having an alarm system, a burglar usually prefers to break into a house with no security and no dogs, even if the dog is little... and it also changes a small and likely unpersuable act of petty fraud into an act of presenting false identity which is a felony in some states.. and if you use a passport it is a felony everywhere.

So yes, present me with a fake passport and then use a stolen credit card to buy a trial at quickbuck, or (as everybody keeps mentionining other programs who dont ask for id) sign up with them, use a stolen credit card, disappear like a fart in the wind knowing that there is very little they can do to you.

I apologize if we came off as "attacking", but quickbuck is well... *ME* so perhaps I get a bit defensive when people question whether what we do to keep our program alive and healthy (for like 7 years now) is a smart choice.

hmm, maybe im wrong but i always thought thats why programs only paid every couple weeks or so, by the time payment goes out all signups would of been verified, no? this won't stop the big fraudsters, only the small timers.

Quick buck is shity sponsor one way or another so no need to bother with them.